N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | someguyontheinternet
I believe the above compound easier to make than mormamide (I don't see why a clankemist would seperate Dextro and levo instead of just doubling the dose of racemic! Unless levo has undesirable qualities, but as far as I know it is totally inactive)
I think the m-F increases the SERT activity of the drug. The
I'm told that the thiambutene opioids (a British invention but only used in Japan) are very similar to Palfium
Wonder why the piperazines analogs havent been tried (recreationally or functional): I mean replacing the morpholine ring of phenmetrazine with a piperazine. According to the french patent on those (2-methyl-3-arylpiperazines), they are actually more potent than the morpholine homologs: in rats at 1mg/kg "substantial mydriasis... excitement...piloerection..etc for 3 hours".. looks like a very potent stim to me. Similar things in mice.
I mean 1mg/kg in rats would translate roughly to c.a. a 10mg dose for a 70kg human.
Now on the other hand, they did clinical trial in humans and suggest a dose of 100-150mg oral/day as "good antidepressant of melancholy type..etc". Wonder why the compound was not developed further: probably the subjects were tweaking pretty hard on that dose!??
Actually I wont be surprised the piperazines are more potent than the morpholines as DA-NE releasers because of the extra H-bond donor. If Phenmetrazines SAR is similar, the (+/-) trans but not the cis would be active. And the 2S,3S trans enantiomer more potent than the 2R,3R trans since much of the activity of phenmetrazine (as DA-NE releaser) is due to the 2S,3S isomer. Similar SAR with the 4-MAR oxazolidines (the trans isomer is more potent than the cis).
1-step synthesis from dirt cheap SMs looks even easier than the morpholines. Now If one can its hands on the trans isomer (+/-)trans-2-methyl-3-phenylpiperazine, I bet you it would be quite interesting compound, probably not much different from the holy grail trans-4-MAR but with reduced duration and reduced serotonergic activity.
nb: the safety of that compound is quite good at least in mice and rats (LD0 in mice>250mg/kg!! 250x active dose) but anyhow they did clinical trials in humans and suggest 150mg (oral) dose so I suspect it is well tolerated, but who knows?
Edit: if anybody come across some papers on those, please post .. Stay Safe All BLighters
Once got a phone call, from a mate, saying one of his mates had IV'd a 10mg palfium. After quickly realizing he wasn't going to ring an ambulance, I suggested making an IV shot of amphetamine (they had just bought a ripped off pharmacy CD cabinet), put them in the recovery position, but with legs above head height (massive drop in B.P.). Twenty minutes later, I started a rant about how he nearly had a dead body on his hands and that dextromoramine should NEVER be IV'd...Fuckin hell. Peach palfium. Now there's a blast from the past.
Never had the pleasure myself, but the pharmaceuticals available in the 60s and 70s were insane.
Strange how we've managed to survive the good drugs, but it's the shit ones which are killing us.
@#GIMMESOMEPROPERDRUGSBECAUSEWHATIMGETTINGISFUCKINSHIT
The morpholine compounds are more active than the piperidine rings, when it comes to methylphenidate derivatives (the morpholine analogue of desoxypipradrol is stupidly potent). To alter the half life of a stim drug, based on methylphenidate, replace the ester with a methoxy or even plain alkyl group, as that's the way the drug is deactivated metabolically.Wonder why the piperazines analogs havent been tried (recreationally or functional): I mean replacing the morpholine ring of phenmetrazine with a piperazine. According to the french patent on those (2-methyl-3-arylpiperazines), they are actually more potent than the morpholine homologs: in rats at 1mg/kg "substantial mydriasis... excitement...piloerection..etc for 3 hours".. looks like a very potent stim to me. Similar things in mice.
I mean 1mg/kg in rats would translate roughly to c.a. a 10mg dose for a 70kg human.
Now on the other hand, they did clinical trial in humans and suggest a dose of 100-150mg oral/day as "good antidepressant of melancholy type..etc". Wonder why the compound was not developed further: probably the subjects were tweaking pretty hard on that dose!??
Actually I wont be surprised the piperazines are more potent than the morpholines as DA-NE releasers because of the extra H-bond donor. If Phenmetrazines SAR is similar, the (+/-) trans but not the cis would be active. And the 2S,3S trans enantiomer more potent than the 2R,3R trans since much of the activity of phenmetrazine (as DA-NE releaser) is due to the 2S,3S isomer. Similar SAR with the 4-MAR oxazolidines (the trans isomer is more potent than the cis).
1-step synthesis from dirt cheap SMs looks even easier than the morpholines. Now If one can its hands on the trans isomer (+/-)trans-2-methyl-3-phenylpiperazine, I bet you it would be quite interesting compound, probably not much different from the holy grail trans-4-MAR but with reduced duration and reduced serotonergic activity.
nb: the safety of that compound is quite good at least in mice and rats (LD0 in mice>250mg/kg!! 250x active dose) but anyhow they did clinical trials in humans and suggest 150mg (oral) dose so I suspect it is well tolerated, but who knows?
Edit: if anybody come across some papers on those, please post .. Stay Safe All BLighters
After trying dipipanone (bloody wonderful, 20mg rectally) and reading that replacing the piperidine with a morpholine ring produces identical effects, norphenadoxone seems like it would be wonderful (as well as legal everywhere, as far as I can tell!)
Yeah, it seems even a slight deviation from dextromoramide buggers activity. 10mg peach Palfium was very nice...sadly missed dipiapanone, is it rather similar to methadone. tried the desmethylmoramide some weeks ago, it was a total disapointment. somewhat of an opioidergic mu glow in your head for some hours, nothing more. no good bodyload, no sedation. a rather pointless high.
Well, they do run an incredible range of compounds, based on SAR predictions (when I were lad, there was none of this QSAR malarky!I was truly awed that Janssen found dextromoramide since it's an island of activity. The fact the methyl side-chain is moved and that destroyed activity of all other related compounds shows he really was looking at Dreiding models with properly calculated angles.
3-FPM is also very active, if IMed. Thibg is, most people do not like to fuck around with needles. Can't remember where I mentioned it, but my late wife and myself would IM 3-FPM as an aphrodisiac, that was great. Add in 4-FMPH and it was fuck until I was too sore to wear underpants! (A day around the house wearing bathrobesYou what?
3-fpm when vaped was the fuckin best stimulant I've ever had. I'd love to get hold of the parent compound...
Palfium is DextroMoramide right. Long before my time and allready out of dr's and junkie's hand's.
I think the above image is of Dutch Palfium. The Dutch use the REALLY simple trick of making it impossible to inject pills because all of their pills are about the size of a paracetamol. I mean, a 500mg paracetamol tablet weighs almost a gram so..... if you have something that big with just 10mg in it.... it cannot be shot; simple idea.