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Phenmetrazine and 4-MAR vs. Methamphetamine

Renz Envy

Renz Envy

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Sep 29, 2010
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How neurotoxic are phenmetrazine and 4-mar comparatively to methamphetamine? What about negative cardiovascular effects?

If you had access to all three, which would you personally choose for studying and concentration? What about exercise?



I ask this, because I'm curious if there is a healthier alternative to amphetamine use. I would not like to be completely dependent on them for motivation and concentration for the rest of my life.
 
I just wish I knew if 4-mar and phenmetrazine are as good as people try to boast them to be. Neither stimulant is common, which is why I'm posting it in ADD.
 
It doesn't really answer you question re:neurotoxicity, but I have tested:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2-Phenyl-3,6-dimethylmorpholine

I heard it was similar to the original phenmetrazine, but with no comparison I have no idea. Overall I would personally rather just have a few cups of coffee. Intranasally there was no rush and no euphoria. It was so subtle I could have almost slept on it. The closest thing I could compare it to was camfetamine, which was marginally better. Back to the drawing board :p
 
No idea about phenmetrazine but concerning 4-MAR vs. methamphetamine, it's been discussed in one recent thread in ADD. The question there is actually "why 4-MAR is less neurotoxic...?" but anyway, it's here.
 
No idea re your health/utility question but I would like to hear more accounts of phenmetrazine (Preludin) abuse as I recall it to have had a particularly strong aphrodisiac reputation years ago and have no idea how justified it might be.
 
The Beatles were great lovers of Preludin, weren't they?

All the research I can find suggests that at least 4-MAR is essentiallty non-neurotoxic in the long term but does produce the typical "symptoms" of a monoamine releaser. (temporarily drcreased monoamine function afterwards), but cmon, the stuff has a duration of like forever and a day.

Honestly I think the reason we don't see these chemicals widely abused any more is because 1. thney are too hard to make illicitly compared to methamphetamine (cauze thats where the profit is), and 2. they're too damn recreational... see camfetamine (!)
 
regarding the recreational potential of camfetamine i gave it to a couple of friends who are speed fiends and crack heads and in doses of around 200mgs they really loved it in a big way. i think i comes into its own at higher doses but unfortunately for me has the dirty comedown of amphetamine albeit quite a lot milder, still nowhere near as easy a comedown as coca tea binges
 
I liked camfetamine a lot too though as pofacedhoe said....the comedown is quite hard. I Iv'd it and the jaw clenching through out the whole experience made my teeth hurt tremendously the next day and lets not talk about how bad the sleep was.

4-MAR from what I've heard is tremedously abusable therefore prone to cause some hefty damage.
 
As far as I can tell it has the same temporary monoamine depkleting effects as amphetamine but is nowhere near as potent in inducing long-term changes as e.g. meth.
 
Honestly I think the reason we don't see these chemicals widely abused any more is because 1. thney are too hard to make illicitly compared to methamphetamine (cauze thats where the profit is), and 2. they're too damn recreational... see camfetamine (!)
Click to expand...

4-MAR is easy to synthesize just as any aminorex analogue. The problem for street chemists may be cleaning the product, I don't know, I've never bought it off the streets. Actually, concerning purity amphetamine and methamphetamine are always shitty too...

Anyway, for any decent chemist 4-methylaminorex synthesis should be no problem and the starting material is as widely available as the starting material for methamphetamine.
 
If this is veering too far to synth discussion someone can hide my post.

I think the reason the aminorexes aren't seen is because the starting material (phenylpropanolamine) is at least an order of magnitude harder to find than ephedrine in NorthAm. To the best of my knoledge it is totally absent in Canada and restricted all to hell in the States because of the discovery that it raises the risk of stroke. It's only availiable as a reagent, or from Europe or as a vet medicine. Maybe from Mexico. Ephedrine on the other hand is still sold OTC everywhere.

Also, the synthesis requires (as far as I know) a source of cyanide, be it cyanate or cyanogen bromide... and although cyanate salts are not nearly as deadly as cyanogen bromide I still wouldn't want to be playing with them. You *really* wouldn't want to be doign the cook without a fume hood. I think the meth heads just aren't brave enough... in situ HI or lithium cooks will "only" cause huge pyres of flame, not instant death by cyanide evolution...
 
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