phenibut rectal dosing.

[markosheehan]

hello
I want to do phenibut rectally. I usually do a oral dose of 2g so does anyone what the corresponding rectal dose is.?

also I am planing to use sodium bicarbonate to neutralize it so it doesnt sting.
how much phenibut HCL will I need to add to how much sodium bicarbonate to neutralize it?
could someone please explain the chemistry behind this?
thanks

 

[Xorkoth]

It's quite a bit more potent, at least twice as potent. It also takes effect quite a bit quicker. I used to use it that way sometimes but I never neutralized it so it was pretty uncomfortable. Not sure how to answer your question about the chemistry though, but I just wanted to say, rectal is a good ROA for phenibut.

 

[markosheehan]

It's quite a bit more potent, at least twice as potent. It also takes effect quite a bit quicker. I used to use it that way sometimes but I never neutralized it so it was pretty uncomfortable. Not sure how to answer your question about the chemistry though, but I just wanted to say, rectal is a good ROA for phenibut.

today I tried to neutralize the phenibut with baking soda before administration. it did not go well. it fizzed and foamed into a weird mixture.
The reason I want to try rectal dosing is phenibut is really painful on my stomach. is up the ass less painful than the stomach ?

 

[Xorkoth]

Well, if left as an HCL, it's painful to the rectum. Maybe you could try the FAA form (free amino acid)? It's supposed to be more potent and it's not acidic. It is more costly though.

 

[Working_Class]

Interesting that it reacts with sodium bicarbonate, I wonder what it produces afterwards.

 

[S.J.B.]

today I tried to neutralize the phenibut with baking soda before administration. it did not go well. it fizzed and foamed into a weird mixture.
The reason I want to try rectal dosing is phenibut is really painful on my stomach. is up the ass less painful than the stomach ?

While a normal amine hydrochloride salt has a pKa around 8-11, and is therefore only mildly acidic, a protonated amino acid such as phenibut hydrochloride is a much stronger acid, with a pKa around 2. Sodium bicarbonate, with a pKa of 6.4, will immediately deprotonate phenibut hydrochloride to give the phenibut zwitterion (protonated amine and deprotonated carboxylate) which has a pKa comparable to that of an amine and should be much less corrosive. This compound should still be quite water soluble. Although sodium bicarbonate has a significantly lower pKa than the phenibut zwitterion, it can react in an irreversible fashion (as carbonic acid can decompose to water and carbon dioxide, the latter of which can escape the aqueous solution as a gas) and this could drive the second deprotonation, to the phenibut freebase carboxylate, if you add a sufficient excess of sodium bicarbonate. I would guess that the freebase carboxylate would still be quite water soluble, although not as soluble as the zwitterion. Your best bet would be adding sodium bicarbonate to phenibut hydrochloride in a 1:1 molar ratio (or slight excess of bicarbonate, perhaps 1.2:1) with the phenibut hydrochloride pre-dissolved in an aqueous solution. Is this how you did it, or did you add the sodium bicarbonate directly to the solid phenibut hydrochloride in excess?

If you want to avoid having to go the rectal route, you can simply dissolve a bit of baking soda in water, dissolve your phenibut hydrochloride in it, and drink that. If your stomach pains are due to the corrosive effect of consuming the highly acidic salt, this should eliminate that problem.