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Phenibut onset time and metabolism

Renz Envy

Bluelighter
Joined
Sep 29, 2010
Messages
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I have been looking into this selective GABA-b agonist for a little while and have been doing research and the biggest issue I have with this drug is that the onset time is too slow.

I hypothesized that if one were to convert it from an acid a salt, it would increase the digestion and metabolism time of the drug thus reducing the onset time.

I would like to hear your experiences and other hypothesis's about this as well.
 
As far as experiences go, I've taken it a few times, bought a bit of it a fair few years ago, and it had the longest onset time of any substance I've ever tried. I wouldn't feel a dose until the day after I'd taken it.
 
Just recieved mine in the mail today. Will report later when and if effects are felt.
 
As far as experiences go, I've taken it a few times, bought a bit of it a fair few years ago, and it had the longest onset time of any substance I've ever tried. I wouldn't feel a dose until the day after I'd taken it.

This is probably due to the DA rebound properties of phenibut.
 
Two hours after ingestion of around 1.5 grams starting to really feel it. Increased heart rate, increased body temp, mild euphoria and loss of train of thought. comparable to .5 mg xanax possibly.
Will have to further experiment with this drug maybe in combination with kratom as i see that being very nice.
Now i was wondering if anyone had information on if phenibut will block the effects of cocaine, i was reading somewhere that it might but could find no confirmations on this.
 
Baclofen, which has had it's pharmacokinetics studied much more extensively than it's close relative phenibut, also has a very delayed onset for me. It is rapidly absorbed, but the effects don't really muster for me until 1.5-2 hours in, vs the 2 hours of phenibut. Thus I don't think absorption issues are the culprit here. . . Seems to be more a cascade effect.
 
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I'm more interested in the viability of reaction of the compound to a salt where phenibut is the anion. Could this be as simple as titrating phenibut into a dilute NaOH solution?

ebola
 
Yes, titrate to ph 7 (6-8 will work) where the compound is doubly protonated and hence very water sol.

I think the molar ratio is 22.2% the weight of your phenibut acid in naoh.
 
Sekio and ebola! that is what I hope will effectively decrease the onset time and allow our digestion systems to absorb it much more quickly. I do not, however, have anymore than one case of someone converting phenibut to a salt and making a report on it.

That report was fairly "scatter brained" as well, no offense to him or her.
 
Unfortunately I don't know if conversion to a salt is actually going to help, if you're consuming it orally. Stomach acid is pH ~2, which will ddrive phenibut to have the amine protonated but the carboxylate group neutral (entirely defeating the purpose of making it a salt)

It wouldn't hurt anything to try though. Perhaps a better option is plugging the sodium salt.

Perhaps O-ethyl N-acetyl phenibut (mask the 2 polar groups) would be a "winner".
 
This project is certainly becoming more and more complex!
It's invigorating.

Let's hope a simple NaOH conversion is enough, however I am willing to go to great lengths to fully unmask the potential of this selective GABA-b agonist.
 
I have some phenibut around, along with NaOH and when I have some spare time I will try converting it into a salt.

I take phenibut for solely for anxiety and it really is a pain in the ass having to wait 2-3 hours to feel a damn thing from it.
 
Phenibut MW 180
NaOH MW 40
so ratio is 40/180 or 22.2% w/w

Go and give it a try if you get a chance, I'm cureious to see if it actually changes anything. Be sure to adjust your dosage accordingly to account for the sodium ion. Sodium salt has a MW of 201 so it's only 90% as strong as free-acid phenibut

I think plugging the salt form is probably going to be the way to go. Bypass hepatitic metabolism, and since the logD of the doubly ionised phenibut is llike -0.5, it should be comparable in absorbtion to caffeine. Very water soluble.

In terms of absorbtion through the stomach, you might be able to do the amphetamine trick, and just load up on antacids to buffer out some of the stomach acidity and encourage it to remain as a salt.
 
Well it should make multiple routes of administration more pleasant as it won't upset mucus membranes as easily at a water-like PH.

I am going to hope that the cause of its slow digestion is a PH and stomach related issue and not something more complex dealing with blood/brain metabolism.
 
^ I have a pretty hectic week a head of me, but I will try this as soon as possible.

I will definitely be running this through GC/MS before ingesting this compound though to be on the safe side.

If converting phenibut into a salt was that simple, why didn't anyone think of this earlier? I think it's a great experiment but I really think someone would have done this already unsuccessfully.

Edit: Now that I think about it, I will have to run the phenibut through GC/MS to see exactly what is in this.
 
^ I have a pretty hectic week a head of me, but I will try this as soon as possible.

I will definitely be running this through GC/MS before ingesting this compound though to be on the safe side.

If converting phenibut into a salt was that simple, why didn't anyone think of this earlier? I think it's a great experiment but I really think someone would have done this already unsuccessfully.

Edit: Now that I think about it, I will have to run the phenibut through GC/MS to see exactly what is in this.

It has been thought of and a member of bluelight admitted that converting to a salt made the drug much more bioavailable orally and smoother intranasally.

However, one person's opinion/experience does not merit fact over opinion.

This was a long time ago. But my recent interest in selective GABA-b agonists has led me to see potential in the drug as being lightly recreational so long as it is able to kick in faster.

Perhaps a fast acting form of phenibut could be a very good future cure for delirium tremens induced by GHB/alcohol, benzo withdrawals or panic disorder.
 
DA rebound? what exactly do you mean?

Suppression of dopamine release due toGABAb agonism resulting in DA release once it ceases to block DA release?

What is the mechanism for this, anybody know? is it via something like stimulation of DA autoreceptors? it certainly doesn't feel, in vivo, like it is blocking transporters and thus acting as a reuptake inhibitor, otherwise, would we not be seeing stimulant properties? Which was certainly not the effect I got from taking phenibut.

As far as baclofen, if its alright my going slightly off on a tangent here, I've read recently (wikipedia), that the responses to baclofen can show some rather odd properties, depending on the user-some users of intrathecal baclofen to treat spasticity find that it is completely without effect via the intraspinal delivery route, yet find oral baclofen to be perfectly effective, yet some people get no, or almost no effect whatsoever from oral baclofen; no matter what the dosage used might get brought up to be but find intraspinal dosing via an implanted pump to do the trick.

That some might find it utterly useless per os is understandable enough, paradoxical rxns to some drugs are by no means unknown, I feel like shite for instance, if I take oxazepam, and benzos that metabolize to it later can, but don't always, make me shake, cause tremors and insomnia, APAP, for me, is completely and totally inert with regards analgesia, even given via IV infusion. But its unusual seeming that some people find baclofen useless intrathecally while still finding it works orally perfectly fine.

I've never tried it intraspinally, don't want to either, but even at doses of 200mg+ by mouth, or rectally it is more or less completely without action.
 
Keep us updated, I would be pretty interested to hear if any results were obtained. I do enjoy phenibut quite a bit actually.
 
Hmmm I stated above that Baclofen was rapidly absorbed but it is a little slower than I thought. . . 1.9 hours to peak plasma concentration. . .

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2336342

2 hours is when I really start to feel it, same as phenibut. As far as the "dopamine rebound", which is a bit simple, I now get a pretty profound feeling post Baclofen and phenibut, which really reeks of dopamine. Goosebumps included, and an incredible increase in sex drive. I've been playing with Baclofen for a few years, and it is a strange compound. Took a while to reveal it's character. Certainly more refined than phenibut, and at least an order of magnitude more potent at GABA-B. Weird stuff. I still don't think absorption is the issue, seems to be a complicated cascade going on. . .

Report back though, inquiring minds would like to know!
 
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