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Permanently destroyed as a human being from neuroleptics

R

Rogozjin

Greenlighter
Joined
Nov 13, 2013
Messages
8
My story is I took injections of Olanzapine for 6 months, I felt foggier and foggier during this time, like my brain was burned from the inside out.

I stopped taking any form of anti psychotic 11 months ago, and here is a list of how I feel now compared to before 'treatment':

- Every night I have nightmares
- I never feel rested
- I have no motivation
- I have no ability to multitask, plan 'ahead', organize my life
- My body feels drained and permanently erased
- I always have fright of sound, and I cant stand bright light
- I wear hearing protection all the time
- I can't read because I can't focus
- All my interests are erased
- Typing on a keyboard is markedly slower and I misspell more frequently
- I 'lose thoughts' all the time, even when I think "when I finish writing this sentence the next will be..." and it's gone
- My sense of taste is changed, everything tastes bland and diluted
- Coffee tastes like water, and ciggarettes like air with 'dirt' in it, my brain does not process any reward from caffeine or nicotine
- I lose words, I struggle to express myself in writing because my active vocabulary is very much fewer words (<= example of it being hard to express things because words are gone)
- I never become sleepy, I go to sleep because of exhaustion from living in a tortured state, and then it's back into a very light sleep with the worst nightmares imaginable
- Everything is foggy, gray, tasteless, and nothing gives me stimulation, literally no task
- I am not depressed but since nothing I do gives any form of reward or stimulation I have to just sit and stare or lie with my eyes closed until I'm to exausted to be awake
- My body has become like dough, that was how it felt progressievely during the injections, like my body was disssolved more and more and never came back
- I am always resteless, never at peace, and yet I have 0 ability to focus, or drive to do things
- All memories of my upbringing have become corrupted somehow, I can't relate back to my childhood, which was so complete and the best
- Apetite is basically not there, I eat much much less than before

That's a list of how I feel 11 months after taking neuroleptics. I can essentially hardly motivate myself to make basic food, otherwise I just lie in bed and am in despair because nothing 'feels', nothing relates, nothing is meaningful, and my ability to think and my motivation to do anything is erased.

Before meds I used to lead a happy, active, outgoing student, life. with a lot o interests and being happy about the present and the future.

Can't think of much else to write. I have done basic stuf like try to meet friends, go for a walk, eat regularly, it just doesn't give me my sense of taste or motivation or ability to think back.

I have no prospects of a career, meaningful relations with others, as long as I cannot experience 'reward' from any task (something everyone takes for granted).

I think a lot of people recover from neuroleptics, but it seems I am not one of them, I think some basic neurological thing like the dopamine reward system has been irreversibly erased.

I lost my life to these drugs.

I'm not really looking for advice on "become more active", or "take these drugs", I've tried both and I know what options there are. Maybe I'm looking for someone to write "My life was destroyed 1+ year after completely stopping neuroleptics, then recovery started".

I know I won't heal ever to a life I'll ever recognize. Anyway maybe this thread can be info to take into account ppl using neuroleptics for sleep disorders and such, although I think it takes pretty high doses to become like I am now, the state I became from these meds exemplifies how serious this class of medication is.
 
You can focus enough to write a coherent post?
You were often on these drugs for a reason, what is the story there?

You also can't know at this time that these changes if caused from what you say, will not abate with time.
 
Yeah but it ends there pretty much.

I can do things coherently. I can describe things in logical terms, although vocabulary is damaged, but I get no sense o purpose, joy, or anything.

The story is I was misdiagnosed and took anti psychosis meds without having a psychosis, maybe the meds hit me worse than they do if you have a psychosis when you take them, idk.

For the record it will never be recognized that I was misdiagnosed, but what am I gonna do?

I live in constant hell, I know for a fact I took these meds based on incompetence, my engine to get motivation or experience pleasure or joy from any task is permantenly erased, even though I have no hope for recovery I gotta look for similar stories, although I understand from using google, not many describe permanent damage this bad 1+ year ater discontinuing neuroleptics.

Having no sense of pleasure from anything is described as anhedonia, and I tried finding a forum about anhedonia, but no luck.

And to answer if these changes will go away, I'm 100% sure they won't, during injections I felt the fog become more and more permanent, like it didn't affect my mind but also my perception of my body, like before my body was filled with a 'soul' and now just fog replaced it.

As I said I'm not sure what I'm looking for with this thread but I think I am searching for similar stories about getting anhedonia from neuroleptics that didn't go away after discontinuing treatment.

Currently I have zero improvement after 11 months. I haven't read anyone else say that after taking neuroleptics.

I've nothing to do but wait and see if I recover from being a living zombie of course, so no I agree with you I can't know.

Part of the point with this thread is to give an example of how you can feel subjectively different after taking this class of meds, to anyone, and secondly to try and find if anyone else had the same changes from these meds.
 
I know you didn't want advice on activity or supplementation, but it seems like those routes may be the best bet for you. I found articles stating that olanzapine can cause B vitamin defficiency. So a B-complex supplement may help. If I where you, I would start to exercise regularly, take a multivitamin, fish oil, and possibly look into noopept for it's purported neuro-regenerative effects. Noopept has been indicated for the treatment of those with Alzheimer's syndrome, dementia, post stroke treatment, as well as for treatment following brain surgery. And a multivitamin, fish oil, and exercise should be good for anybody. Also look into sulbutiamine, pyritinol, and possibly picamillon which are B-vitamins formulated to cross the BBB, as most B's can't make it across and into the mind easily. I have read of some miraculous effects when taken by those with B vitamin deficiencies. If interested noopept, sulbutiamine, pyritinol, and picamillon can be purchased in bulk online for fairly cheap. Also don't assume that you will never recover, this kind of pessimistic outlook will be detrimental to the recovery process. I wish you the best of luck with your recovery.
 
I went down the list of symptoms you made and honestly it sounds like you are in a state of severe physical deficiency of some kind. The lack of any appetite is #1. Being easily jolted by stimulus to the point of being frightened and needing earplugs, plus nightmares, is a sign of deficiency in the kind of medicine I practice. Anhedonia can also be a product of deficiency. It sounds like your nervous system is utterly spent. Do you have heart palpitations at all, or any heart disturbances? Any night sweats or waking up feeling way too hot?

I can't say whether or not your self-assessment is accurate. The brain is incredibly resilient and in most cases can recover from various kinds of drug damage, given time. If that recovery hasn't happened whatsoever for you, then it's possible that your body just doesn't have the physical means to fuel the recovery. One of Olanzapine's adverse affects can be metabolic disorder which relates to how your body processes and releases nutrition.

A b-complex, folate, liquid D3, zinc, and magnesium are all important right now. I would start by picking up some epsom salts and soaking once a day in 2-3 cups of it dissolved in a hot bath, for at least 20 mins. I know that sounds like a lot but if your fright is that intense you could use it. The magnesium in the salts will absorb transdermally. Magnesium will provide the basis for other kinds of minerals, like calcium and zinc, to be absorbed and will help with voltage gating of your jumpy nervous system. As for the other minerals, stick to food forms like pumpkin seeds and sunflower seeds... consume 1/2 cup of those per day. Grind them up, or sprinkle them on something. Pumpkin seeds will give you your zinc, sunflower seeds will give you your magnesium. If you like roasted sesame seeds, 1 teaspoon of those per day is your daily calcium, plus you get some beneficial oils. Just get to eating them. I don't think taking vitamin supplements will work in your case... if you have no appetite already then your basal metabolic rate is low, which means absorption is low. If you can get injectable B12 I would go that route. The other B vitamins are easily acquired from vegetables and eggs.

If you have regular diarrhea or loose stool while trying to do all this, it means your body isn't absorbing, but that would also indicate that your problem is deficiency related.
 
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Foreigner had some good advice above. I would like to add that upon some further research, Olanzapine definitely depletes vitamin B-12 which could lead to many of the symptoms which you mentioned above, and also plays a key role in maintaining proper hormone levels in the human body. As I stated previously B vitamins do not easily cross the blood brain barrier. Methylcobalamin is a variation of vitamin B-12 which more readily crosses the blood brain barrier. You should purchase some asap and begin to take it in decent sized doses along w/ Foreigner's suggestions. I would place my money on it making quite the difference for you. Also pyritinol and sulbutiamine should be beneficial. And if none of the above works then I might look into something like noopept. Once again these supplements can be obtained for fairly cheap online.
 
Thanks for the advice. I'll try to get whatever supplements I can get a hold of.

My own theory is that the circuitry that processess experiencing reward has been nuked from my brain.

I think aside from bad sleep and apetite, the lack of enjoyment of anything really is the main problem. (nauseau and fright doesn't help)

If I say enjoyed literally anything, I could build on that and get my life on track. But I never leave this tortured hollow state where I can't do simple things.

Everything about my personality that was 'me' is erased. Nothing brings enjoyment. So I'm kind of stuck in a fog that's like a prison, and have been for 11 months.

I'll write down the supplements I can try. And wait for natural recovery to some basic existance that's not pure hell.

I think part of who you are is your memories, and they're gone. I mean I can recall factual stuff, but not emotionally to any happy memory, it's just locked out.

In neurological terms I have not much idea what anatomical or biochemical changes my brain has taken, but I think part of it is shrinking of gray matter, and also downregulation of glutamate receptors.

So what I can do is take supplements and hope for meds that can have a positive effect on glutamate signaling, of which there is one in research.

What I can enjoy is restricted to: eating when I am hungry, and drinking when I am thirsty. This is similar to what I've read people with anhedonia report (anhedonia which has multiple causes, one of which is being caused by neuroleptics).

So time, supplements, and possibly new glutamate meds. Thanks for the replies and suggestions!
 
This sort of experience can be very challenging. I think to make assumptions based on to little data about what has changed for you is a crap shoot. I agree with the others who are confident in the human bodies ability to adapt and heal. I am confident you will improve if you stay physically healthy. I have been through a type of protracted depression that took years to figure out the mechanics of and overcome. I'm on the tail end of that experience. It has been the most torturous experience of my life. From where I stand now I can also say it has been one of the most rewarding.

A few behaviours I have adopted that have been beneficial:

I research my symptoms and keep a journal. I now have hundreds of pages of data and believe this day by day account of my experience may one day be very valuable.

I got about 100 coins and laid them out on my dresser in a grid. Every day I move one from the first group to a second group. My improvement was so gradual I couldn't tell I was getting better week by week. I could look at the coins and recognize an improvement over a greater time frame. This also gave me a visual representation of the investment I would lose if I gave up and how much progress I had made. At first every day seemed an impossible struggle. I couldn't believe what I had achieved when I made it through the first day, that first coin was a big accomplishment. Then I made it through a whole week when at first I thought I couldn't make it through the first day. Now there are hundreds of coins in the days gone by group.

I downloaded a video game emulator and played old video games when my attention span was very poor. Despite the fact that this may sound immature it has been as important as the others. On the worst days my attention span was so poor I couldn't read, watch movies, or exercise. The video games gave me something to occupy my spare time while I waited out the worst weeks.

Good luck and have confidence in yourself. Sometimes we don't realize how strong we are until we have no choice.

--------------------
http://www.shulginresearch.org
http://www.freeleonardpickard.org
http://www.maps.org
http://www.erowid.org
 
NsPD -> TDS

Eat properly and excercise. People with drug induced anhedonia often make their situation out to be much worse than it actually is. It will, in time and with proper treatment of your body, abate.
 
Considering the severity and the breadth of the symptoms you're describing, along with the length of time since the olanzapine was discontinued, I think it's unlikely that everything you're describing is caused by your prior treatment.

On the other hand most, if not all of the symptoms that you listed are consistent with a psychotic state. Many people think that psychosis has to involve "positive symptoms" i.e. seeing things, hearing things, grand delusions, etc. Positive symptoms ARE NOT ALWAYS PRESENT in every psychotic episode.

Inability to feel joy like you describe is a classic "negative symptom" of psychosis. All of these symptoms you listed are consistent with the negative symptoms associated with psychosis:
- I have no motivation
- My body feels drained and permanently erased
- All my interests are erased
- Everything is foggy, gray, tasteless, and nothing gives me stimulation, literally no task

Many people also don't realize that psychosis is associated with severe cognitive dysfunctions, and all of these symptoms you listed match the cognitive dysfunction that occurs:
- I have no ability to multitask, plan 'ahead', organize my life
- Typing on a keyboard is markedly slower and I misspell more frequently
- I 'lose thoughts' all the time, even when I think "when I finish writing this sentence the next will be..." and it's gone
- I lose words, I struggle to express myself in writing because my active vocabulary is very much fewer words (<= example of it being hard to express things because words are gone)

Concerning these symptoms:
- I always have fright of sound, and I cant stand bright light
- I wear hearing protection all the time
Read this: EXCESSIVE STARTLE RESPONSE IN SCHIZOPHRENIA


I'm not a doctor, and even if I were I couldn't diagnose you over the internet, but my advice to you is to take a step back and consider other sources for your problems, rather than focusing solely on what damage might have been done by the drugs.

My only other advice is that belief is unbelievably powerful in shaping your reality. If you believe that you've damaged your brain irreversibly, you'll probably never improve, regardless of what's actually happening neurologically.



edit: I want to emphasize that what I wrote isn't an attack on you, or your interpretation of what you're experiencing, I just want you to keep your mind open to other possibilities.
 
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In response to endotropic:

Yes, ALL of the above listed symtoms are literally caused by the multiple injections I took. I had none of them before that. 0.

Also what you wrote about the possibility of psychosis, yes, I think this is very much a possibility. Here's a quote from Wikipedia on Tardive Psychosis:
Tardive psychosis is a form of psychosis distinct from schizophrenia and induced by the use of current (dopaminergic) antipsychotics by the depletion of dopamine and related to the known side effect caused by their long-term use, tardive dyskinesia.
Click to expand...

Whatever it is I suffer from. Life in this state is not worth living. I suffer more than I experience joy.


I live in a constant fog where I can't really do anything. And I wake up from sleep: I wake up in the middle of a nightmare. So I can't know if my entire nights sleep is one continouous nightmare but for 1 year not once have I woken up not in the middle of a nightmare.

PTSD, Sz, Psychosis. I don't rule any of those out. But I had 0 of them before the injections, but didn't make a thread to argue about that but to get advice and hear stories from ppl who took a lot o these meds as I did and what if anything alleviated.
 
Kick-starting the brain's reward system after neuroleptic-induced damage?

Ritalin? Psilocybin? Anything?

TIred of this fog where nothing feels.

I had this idea where I thought maybe there's a pathway in the brain that neuroleptics blocked, and I can unblock it with some substance, so the cortex communicates with tthe reward system.

The more depressing and also more likely reailty is that I just have less cortex left after these meds and those neurons are dead, that I can't become who I were before meds, and have to accept emptiness that's left after it.

But I'd be willing to try any substance in the off chance it could hae some positive effect.
 
Massive 5-ht2a downregulation?
mesolimbic dopamine, nucleus accumbens is of couse also extremely important.
we have anhedonia forum at anhedoniasupport.com trying to figure these things out.
I went through extreme anhedonia after withdrawing from 6 months of phenibut usage, still haven't fully recovered after 19 months but getting very close. I had a window recently where everything was back just like it was so long time ago..
 
Well the opposite of neuroleptics are analeptics (cocaine, amphetamines, cathinones). So a few controlled uses of these orgasma-drugs in stimulating situations may be just what you need. Just don't get carried away.
 
Hi,

I was misdiagnosed with schizophrenia and was also forced to take Invega Sustenna at 100mg a month for 10 months. It gave me anhedonia along with many other side effects. I am suffering from everything that you have listed here. I don't have emotions and cannot feel pleasure. I have no motivation, drive, interest, willpower or desire to do anything. All I feel constantly are despair, uneasiness, restlessness, and dysphoric and there's nothing I can do to make them go away.

I was so desperate I have tried many things but none of them worked. I tried weed, shrooms, acid, MDMA, speed, gabapentin, and cocaine. NONE OF THEM HAD ANY EFFECTS ON ME AFTER NEUROLEPTICS. I am now off the injection and it has been 3 months since my last one and I still haven't felt a bit of improvement.

Your post really scares me. I used to think that it will take a couple months after the drug is eliminated from the body to return back to normal but you are more than 11 months off and still suffering from these symptoms. I am losing hope and am very scared. I want so badly to cry but I can't. I know I am angry but I can't even feel or express those emotions. I am a worthless zombie that just waiting to die.

I don't know what else to do. Is there anything we can do? Lawsuits? I can't just let them get away with having done this to me. This is one of the reasons why I haven't committed suicide yet. I want justice!

I WANT JUSTICE!!!
 
endotropic said:
Considering the severity and the breadth of the symptoms you're describing, along with the length of time since the olanzapine was discontinued, I think it's unlikely that everything you're describing is caused by your prior treatment.

On the other hand most, if not all of the symptoms that you listed are consistent with a psychotic state. Many people think that psychosis has to involve "positive symptoms" i.e. seeing things, hearing things, grand delusions, etc. Positive symptoms ARE NOT ALWAYS PRESENT in every psychotic episode.

Inability to feel joy like you describe is a classic "negative symptom" of psychosis. All of these symptoms you listed are consistent with the negative symptoms associated with psychosis:
- I have no motivation
- My body feels drained and permanently erased
- All my interests are erased
- Everything is foggy, gray, tasteless, and nothing gives me stimulation, literally no task

Many people also don't realize that psychosis is associated with severe cognitive dysfunctions, and all of these symptoms you listed match the cognitive dysfunction that occurs:
- I have no ability to multitask, plan 'ahead', organize my life
- Typing on a keyboard is markedly slower and I misspell more frequently
- I 'lose thoughts' all the time, even when I think "when I finish writing this sentence the next will be..." and it's gone
- I lose words, I struggle to express myself in writing because my active vocabulary is very much fewer words (<= example of it being hard to express things because words are gone)

Concerning these symptoms:
- I always have fright of sound, and I cant stand bright light
- I wear hearing protection all the time
Read this: EXCESSIVE STARTLE RESPONSE IN SCHIZOPHRENIA


I'm not a doctor, and even if I were I couldn't diagnose you over the internet, but my advice to you is to take a step back and consider other sources for your problems, rather than focusing solely on what damage might have been done by the drugs.

My only other advice is that belief is unbelievably powerful in shaping your reality. If you believe that you've damaged your brain irreversibly, you'll probably never improve, regardless of what's actually happening neurologically.



edit: I want to emphasize that what I wrote isn't an attack on you, or your interpretation of what you're experiencing, I just want you to keep your mind open to other possibilities.
Click to expand...

Very well written and I agree with most everything that you stated here.
 
Hi,

How are you feeling now? Are you getting better yet? I really hope that you got better because your post really scares me. I cannot imagine living with these symptoms for the rest of my life. I really don't know what to do.

Do you smoke weed and does it help? Weed had stopped working for me along with cigarettes and alcohol after I started the injections and 3 months since my last injection and they still don't work.


Also, are you considering suing?
 
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