Opioids Percocet with Tylenol & Klonopin realistic dangers

[Mycophile]

Hey,

So, I take 1.5mgs of Klonopin and 50mgs of Prozac a day and also take 3.5ML of melatonin every night.

Now I am about to have knee surgery (it's not my first either...) and I know I'll be prescribed Percocets which are 5/325 Oxycodone/APAP (Tylenol), as well as Naproxen most likely (Aleve).

I weigh about 185lbs and I'm a man in my early 30s.

They say you are supposed to take only 2 every 4-6 hours of the Percocet. In the past I've taken as many as 8 of these pills (I'll NEVER do that much again...) without any side effects.

I realize that both the Tylenol and the Oxycodone are dangers, but that MOST LIKELY if I stay under 4,000mgs of Tylenol a day I'll be ok.

Now I am thinking that I should stay under 2,000mgs of Tylenol in a single shot as even that is twice what your are supposed to take.

So my questions pertain to both the Tylenol and the mixing of Oxycodone and Klonopin.

Though I've mixed all these things MANY times before and been just fine, I realize now that I am playing with fire and I think that I should probably not do it again.

I realize asking the advice of anonymous people on a message board about such an important topic is also not such a wise thing, and most likely I won't abuse this medication even if someone on here tells me it's ok, but I am most interested in TRULY educated opinions....those of anyone on here who has any medical experience.

I doubt there are doctors or nurses or pharmacists on here but you never know.

My biggest question is:

1) How likely is it realistically speaking for a man of my size and age to have respiratory depression from the mixture of 1.5mgs of Klonopin with anywhere from 20-30mgs of Oxycodone and up to about 1,950mgs of Tylenol, possibly mixed as it's wearing off, with about 3.5ML of Melatonin????

I have been told that the Tylenol would cause me problems before the Oxycodone ever would, and that if I stay below 4,000mgs a day, even taking a high dosage in one shot, that I should be fine, but I am not sure I believe that at all anymore.

I think maybe I have just gotten lucky, and I don't want to put myself in a dangerous position...

I've been hearing more and more these days about how mixing ANY extra amount of Opiate pain reliever with a benzo is a "DEADLY COMBINATION" and though it's always been fine for me, they say it could be fine to do something 100 times but the 101st could kill you.

Do any EDUCATED posters on this forum really believe this to be true?? (of course, how would I know if you are "educated"...)

Have I been taking SERIOUS life threatening risks whenever I've taken 30-40mgs of Oxy, 2,000-3,500mgs of Tylenol and 1.5mgs of Klonopin in one shot??

Afterall, they do prescribe Oxycodone in 30mg pills so one might think that that dosage in itself isn't lethal, but that's not including the Klonopin, Prozac, Melatonin, Tylenol or other factors like weight and age.

Obviously my doctor knows I'm on Klonopin and approves of my taking this dosage with 2 Percs (10mgs Oxycodone and 650mgs of Tylenol) but higher dosages are an entirely different matter.

Surgery SUCKS BADLY, and the temptation to have a little fun with the pills is hard to resist, but I think I may just have to.

Any info from EXPERIENCED and EDUCATED posters would be interesting to read, though I will take none of it as fact.

Thanks

 

[missmeyet?]

Hi and welcome.

I have been a nurse for 20 years so I can give you some legit advice though you are correct in that it is always wise to research these things as much as possible yourself rather than relying on strangers. I will give you good advice..but of course you dont know me from adam!


I think the most important question though first is do you routinely take any type of opiates/opioids? If so, what kind, how much and how often?

 

[imbatman]

Judging from your post, you don't seem to be opiate tolerant. With that in mind, mixing that much Oxycodone with that much K-pins is indeed dangerous. However, you must be tolerant to benzos taking 1.5 mg a day, so that's why the combination wasn't life threatening. However, I wouldn't recommend doing that much again.

 

[Mycophile]

Hi and welcome.

I have been a nurse for 20 years so I can give you some legit advice though you are correct in that it is always wise to research these things as much as possible yourself rather than relying on strangers. I will give you good advice..but of course you dont know me from adam!


I think the most important question though first is do you routinely take any type of opiates/opioids? If so, what kind, how much and how often?

No, I do not routinely take Opiates. I am wondering if that is what the poster below meant by "opiod tolerant"??

I only take them when prescribed them for surgery, but this is my 4th major surgery in 5 years.

While in the rehab phase here is what I did for my past 2 ACL surgeries which is what will probably happen this time (well NOT counting the abuse, because I am thinking I may not abuse the pills this time...)

1) the first period of ACL rehab is 3 weeks of sitting in a chair which moves your leg back and forth before you can even begin to do physical therapy.

During that period I take 2 Percocets which are 5mgs Oxycodone/325mgs Tylenol every 4-6 hours around the clock.

I never took more than 2 at once during that period because I know that you cannot have 4,000mgs or more APAP in a day or you can have liver damage and I ain't risking it, and during that period you need them so much for pain that you need them every 4-6 hours and wake up in the night needing to take more to fall back to sleep with the pain.

So...what happens then is the 2nd part:

2) I get to the point AFTER about 3-4 weeks give or take, I have been taking 2 of these every 4-6 hours around the clock and I no longer need them during the day, but I may still wake up at night if I don't take them so I'll take 2 before bed and 2 in the middle of the night when I wake up.

Finally:

3) Usually when I get to around 6 weeks of rehab I no longer need the Percocet at all, and that is when I started using it for fun, knowing that both A) I would have built a tolerance so it wouldn't be as dangerous at that point and most of all 2) that I could more easily take 2,000-3,000mgs of Tylenol in one shot, then not take anymore for a few days to clear out my liver (nor did I take any for a few days before that), and never exceed that 4,000mgs APAP that I would have had I stupidly abused them when I needed them for pain.


Also, I would sometimes take an extra .5mgs of Klonopin with the Percs at night to increase the strength but I have HUGE tolerance for Klonopin. I have been taking 1.5mgs and sometimes closer to 1.8mgs most days for 10 years and I drink on it heavily also with ZERO side effects.

One more thing, I take 3.5ML liquid melatonin at night, and I usually took at RIGHT at the time that the Percocet would wear off, usually about 4.5 hours after taking it.

This was my Modus Operandi.


I also usually ate a full meal about 2 hours before taking the pills and took them with a full glass of water.


But the last time I had wrist surgery was different:

Right away I knew I ONLY needed them at night for pain cause it's not bad like knee surgery, so after only a few days of taking a few pills a day one day I took 4 pills of Vicodin (this time instead of the Percocet 5mgs Vic w/ 500mg Tylenol).

A few days later I was really stupid and took 6 1/2 Vicodins at once (I'll NEVER EVER DO THAT AGAIN!!), but I had not taken any Tylenol or opiates for days before or days after I did that, and I was fine.

Let me know what you think.

 

[Mycophile]

Judging from your post, you don't seem to be opiate tolerant. With that in mind, mixing that much Oxycodone with that much K-pins is indeed dangerous. However, you must be tolerant to benzos taking 1.5 mg a day, so that's why the combination wasn't life threatening. However, I wouldn't recommend doing that much again.

By "opiate tolerant" do you mean used to taking them frequently?

I'm not, I only take them when prescribed for surgeries, but I have always seemed to handle them quite well with no side effects other than itching.

I am VERY tolerant to Benzos, I can drink a lot on them and have never noticed a difference even on 2.0mgs of Klonopin other than being a little tired.

What dosage however would you "not recommend me taking again"??

30mgs?? That may be too much, though they make 30mg pills.

20mgs?

That is only twice what I am prescribed, which is 10mgs (2--5/325) every 6 hours.

Any less than 20mgs I do not get high off of it, I'll just barely get the slightest buzz with the 2 pills I am prescribed, maybe the slightest bit more if I take an extra 1 (15mgs total).

If I think it's too dangerous I may not even go over what I am prescribed this time (10 mgs).

 

[BlueHues]

It is indeed a very dangerous combination, but it all depends on your individual tolerance to both classes of drugs. Benzos on their own have very little effect on the heart and respiration, but they greatly potentiate the respiratory depressive effects of opiates and other drugs..

If all the doctors that are prescribing you meds know what you're on, and you're following the dosing schedule, you'll probably be fine.

Unfortunately, benzos and opiates are highly popular, readily available recreational drugs that people who have no idea what their tolerance to either drug is are recklessly mixing...and ODing.

A friend of mine's mother was prescribed a high dose of methadone and 1.5 mgs a day of klonopin. She was hospitalized for 4-5 days, and only given 40 mgs of methadone a day while she was inpatient. Normally, she was receiving 120 mgs a day from the clinic.

The morning after she was released from the hospital, she went to the methadone clinic and they her the 120mgs she had been receiving daily...They failed to take into account that she had been only receiving 1/3 of her dose for the five days she was gone...

She left the methadone clinic, took an unknown amount of klonopin....and was found dead at home by her daughter later that morning..

The methadone clinic knew she was on clonazepam too...And she might have taken more than prescribed that morning, which would have been "her fault", but the methadone clinic could also be considered at fault for not giving her a lower dose of methadone and titrating back up....

The doses that you're describing of each drug isn't an outrageous amount of either, and it's being overseen by a doctor, but it is wise to be very cautious about combining them. Deciding to double up or increase the dose of either, could potentially kill you...

Obviously, the more you take, the more the danger increases...

 

[Mycophile]

It is indeed a very dangerous combination, but it all depends on your individual tolerance to both classes of drugs. Benzos on their own have very little effect on the heart and respiration, but they greatly potentiate the respiratory depressive effects of opiates and other drugs..

If all the doctors that are prescribing you meds know what you're on, and you're following the dosing schedule, you'll probably be fine.

Unfortunately, benzos and opiates are highly popular, readily available recreational drugs that people who have no idea what their tolerance to either drug is are recklessly mixing...and ODing.

A friend of mine's mother was prescribed a high dose of methadone and 1.5 mgs a day of klonopin. She was hospitalized for 4-5 days, and only given 40 mgs of methadone a day while she was inpatient. Normally, she was receiving 120 mgs a day from the clinic.

The morning after she was released from the hospital, she went to the methadone clinic and they her the 120mgs she had been receiving daily...They failed to take into account that she had been only receiving 1/3 of her dose for the five days she was gone...

She left the methadone clinic, took an unknown amount of klonopin....and was found dead at home by her daughter later that morning..

The methadone clinic knew she was on clonazepam too...And she might have taken more than prescribed that morning, which would have been "her fault", but the methadone clinic could also be considered at fault for not giving her a lower dose of methadone and titrating back up....

The doses that you're describing of each drug isn't an outrageous amount of either, and it's being overseen by a doctor, but it is wise to be very cautious about combining them. Deciding to double up or increase the dose of either, could potentially kill you...

Obviously, the more you take, the more the danger increases...

By the bolded part I am assuming you mean the amount I am PRESCRIBED to take correct?

The 10mgs of Oxycodone and 1.5mgs of Klonopin?

With that being overseen by a doctor I assume that amount is safe.

And although I want to hear what the nurse missmeyet? has to say about it, I am pretty damn sure this post just sold me on not ever taking more than prescribed again.

I think maybe I have just been really lucky.

I wonder if I should even tell the doctor not to give them to me, but I have someone else I can give them to that I live with and tell them to only give them to me when I need them for pain.

Thanks...

 

[BlueHues]

Yes, that is what I meant. With this kind of combo, there's not really a huge margin for error, and it's the worst combo when it comes to "taking whatever you want", without really paying attention to how many pills you're ingesting.

Ironically, this combination is also likely to put you in such a mental fog that you do lose track of how many you took!

The amount the doctor's prescribing may be fairly safe, but at the end of the day, you're the one sitting there with two bottles full of pills meant to last the month!

 

[Mycophile]

Yes, that is what I meant. With this kind of combo, there's not really a huge margin for error, and it's the worst combo when it comes to "taking whatever you want", without really paying attention to how many pills you're ingesting.

Ironically, this combination is also likely to put you in such a mental fog that you do lose track of how many you took!

The amount the doctor's prescribing may be fairly safe, but at the end of the day, you're the one sitting there with two bottles full of pills meant to last the month!

F***, yeah...I almost wonder if I should tell the doc not to give them to me but it would feel too weird to tell him that wondering what his reaction would be and I don't want the extra pain.

I guess I'm just gonna have my room mates hold onto them and not take any extras.

Thanks

 

[Mycophile]

TTT

I was REALLY hoping to hear missmeyet?'s opinion on the subject, but she didn't get back to me.

My surgery is tomorrow so PLEASE respond when you have the time.

Thank you

 

[BlueHues]

^She'll respond when she has a chance. This is a message board moderated by volunteers with jobs, school, kids and other responsibilities. Please don't bump threads trying to get a quicker response.

-Thanks

 

[Mycophile]

^She'll respond when she has a chance. This is a message board moderated by volunteers with jobs, school, kids and other responsibilities. Please don't bump threads trying to get a quicker response.

-Thanks

Oh, very sorry about that.

I won't make that mistake again.

I guess I'm just nervous about my surgery.

I apologize.

Thanks again.

 

[Mycophile]

Ok, so I have one other question.

Now that I am thinking that I will probably NOT take more Percocet than prescribed for my surgery, is there any way to SAFELY increase the high of just taking 2 pills every 4 hours?

What if I just ate less than usual? (Not starving myself or anything mind you).

Or is there some food I could ingest to increase the high? (I also take Klonopin).

Would that increase the high and if so, would it be a very unhealthy or stupid thing to do? (I guess choosing to eat less is pretty unhealthy...so, perhaps this is a silly question, but remember you are talking to someone who's going to be confined to a chair that will be moving my leg back and forth for the next 3 weeks with his leg in a brace, NO FUN AT ALL....

I have also found that a little Valerian Root seems to SLIGHTLY increase the effects and I'd imagine it's fairly safe as Valerian is not a dangerous substance and is supposedly also good for the liver I've heard...

 

[sekio]

Don't starve yourself, but at the same time - taking your pills on a mostly empty stomach will speed the onset of effects up a little. You can eat about half an hour afterwards if you like.

If you feel comfortable with it, you can add a small dose of a sedating antihistamine with your opioid, like diphenhydramine (25mg) or promethazine (50mg). In general taking sedating antihistamines with opioid increases both the sedative effects and the painkilling ones.

Realistically, you should just take your pills as directed if you want to use them for pain relief. Taking opioids to get a "high" is a no-no if you want to keep your tolerance at a low level for a long time. In fact, it's often a sign your use may be too high, because the painkilling effects of opioids are present at doses far below those considered "fun". If you find your prescribed dose is not enough to deal with pain, then consider adding analgesic potentiators (diphenhydramine, orphenadrine, etc) or a NSAID (ibuprofen, naproxen).

 

[Mycophile]

Man, I should probably stop asking questions and firmly decide not to use this shit beyond what is advised, and I very well may throw the pills away after using the bare minimum for pain.

However, I am still curious as to whether there is a certain dosage that is more likely to be "dangerous" for a man my size and age (185lbs, 34 years old, good health), who takes 1.5mgs of Klonopin and 50mgs of Prozac a day.

I will be prescribed 10mgs, so is 20mgs REALLY likely to cause respiratory depression when twice that has been just fine in the past?

Or is there really just simply no way of knowing and it's Russian Roulette no matter what anyone says?

I'm assuming that latter, but I am still here to find out all the answers.

Also, and this is an important question: in such a situation where respiratory depression WOULD occur for an individual, would it actually occur while they are WIDE AWAKE or would they have to be asleep for it to happen??

I mean, if one took it during the day, or at least while wide awake and maybe after having had some coffee, and they stayed awake for it, could the respiratory depression still occur?

I personally would think that IF...I was stupid enough to take extra and I noticed my breathing getting really shallow that I'd just immediately call 911 and hopefully be ok and my assumption has always been that in these cases respiratory depression occurs when people are asleep or unconscious but I could be wrong and perhaps those people still would have died had they tried or been able to stay awake.

And this has been my thinking in the past when I've abused it: that the effects really only last for 4 hours for me (though they say up to 6), so I made sure to stay wide awake while on the Percocets, then only once I was SURE the drug effect had worn off would I take some melatonin like I always do and go to sleep.

Is it possible that a person could have respiratory depression and die in their sleep even AFTER the acute effects of the drug had worn off?? Like 4-6 hours after ingestion?

My thinking was that at that point it would no longer be effecting your respiration since both the mental and pain killing properties have worn off...but then again, I am no doctor and I am sure that it IS still technically in one's blood stream and there could be some kind of drop in blood pressure or something after it wears off....

These are questions I would particularly like to ask Missmyet? once she is available since she's a nurse, but I will patiently await her response.

I'm still thinking i probably won't abuse them this time around, but like all people on here who have enjoyed substances there is a large part of me hoping to get some kind of answer that it's "OK" to take a certain amount that might get me high like 20mgs, but just not ok to take more than that.

In reality, that is probably VERY DANGEROUSLY FOOLISH thinking, and I realize this.

I also wanted a medical opinion on what amount of Tylenol is truly dangerous to take all at once.

Being an occassional drug abuser like most here, I have always come to the probably incorrect conclusion that if 4,000mgs is the max amount allowed in one day, that anything up to that would be just fine to take all in one shot so long as I then don't take ANY more for at least a couple days, when in reality I think the largest dose of Tylenol that the FDA says one should take at once is 1,000mgs, or at least, that is what 2 extra strength Tylenols are.

In reality, I'd make an uneducated guess that exceeding 2,000-2,500 in one shot is risking liver damage, though I have done more than that and always been fine.

I still doubt I'll abuse them this time around, but at even if I was stupid I certainly will not be during the first month of my rehab, because during that period I need them round the clock for pain and would simply get liver failure if I tried any recreational dose, and I am not nearly stupid enough for that.

In the meantime I'll do the necessary research, which will most likely result in tossing the pills once I no longer need them for pain, unless I have REALLY good reason to believe that a LOW recreational dose could be fine, which it always has been...BUT...there's always that one day that it might not be...

Thanks again.

 

[sekio]

You are seriously overthinking this. This is like being concerned about bleeding to death suddenly from a baby aspirin. Essentially all deaths from respiratory depression involve large, euphoriant doses of opioids, usually in combination with significant amounts of potentiators. Respiratory depression occurs as a result of high doses of opioids depressing the breathing centres of the brain. It won't happen to a significant extent with small doses of opioids for painkilling. If you are doing opioids to get a buzz, to get strongly sedated, etc that's a different picture.

Is it possible that a person could have respiratory depression and die in their sleep even AFTER the acute effects of the drug had worn off?? Like 4-6 hours after ingestion?

This is about as likely as winning the lottery ten times in the same day.


The average person can probably tolerate up to 6-8 grams APAP daily for short stints with no side effects. 10-12g in acute single cases. The FDA is just super careful with their daily limit. (Doesn't mean it'sd healthy though)

 

[Mycophile]

You are seriously overthinking this. This is like being concerned about bleeding to death suddenly from a baby aspirin. Essentially all deaths from respiratory depression involve large, euphoriant doses of opioids, usually in combination with significant amounts of potentiators. Respiratory depression occurs as a result of high doses of opioids depressing the breathing centres of the brain. It won't happen to a significant extent with small doses of opioids for painkilling. If you are doing opioids to get a buzz, to get strongly sedated, etc that's a different picture.




This is about as likely as winning the lottery ten times in the same day.


The average person can probably tolerate up to 6-8 grams APAP daily for short stints with no side effects. 10-12g in acute single cases. The FDA is just super careful with their daily limit. (Doesn't mean it'sd healthy though)

I might be overthinking it, I'm an anxious dude so sorry about that, but the bolded is my point and my 1.5mgs of daily Klonopin is the potentiator, along with melatonin perhaps:

I will be prescribed a low dosage for pain tomorrow after surgery, and I am not concerned about that.

But I have had this same exact surgery twice before and what I always do is that AFTER I no longer need the meds for pain, I abuse the last of the pills to get high.

I will only be prescribed 10mgs for pain, but after the pain goes away, I've taken 20-45mgs of Percocet to get high along with my 1.5mgs of Klonopin.

THAT is what I'm concerned about, the interaction.

I have a VERY high tolerance to Klonopin, having been on 1.5mgs and often closer to 2.0mgs for 10 years now, so it doesn't effect me much.

Multiple times, probably close to 40 now, taking doses of 20-35mgs of Oxycodone/Hydrocodone on my K-Pins has been fine.

But...there is always that one day that it's NOT fine, and you overdose.

Blue Hues kind of sided with me on this, warning me not to get high off the pills.

I did it the last 2 surgeries, but I am beginning to think this time I shouldn't.

Do you understand what I am saying now?

Do you have a personal opinion on this?

 

[BlueHues]

^Nobody is going to "make a guess" as to how much of a particular drug you can take without suffering an overdose...and like Sekio suggested, most fatal ODs occur as a result of people taking recklessly/ignorantly high doses of these drugs with no forethought....but it also kills a fair amount of people who "know what they're doing"as well...

Most likely, your doctors have your best interest at heart and don't want you to die from the drugs they've prescribed you...Doing as they advise is your safest bet when it comes to something like this...

 

[Mycophile]

^Yeah, I know what you are saying.

I've got a while to think about this and get some different opinions being that in the initial phase after surgery my Tylenol dose is too high for even the most stupid of people to try to take extra.

I will most likely listen to you and toss the pills once I no longer need them for pain.

I am, however, still interested in missmyet?s opinion as a nurse.

A strange sense of FALSE security comes from having taken a certain dose and being 100% fine so many times, but a high is DEFINITELY NOT worth risking my life over...

 

[Swarm]

Two questios?

Do you drink alcohol?

Do you suffer from asthma?

Tylenol (paracetamol) in combination with alcohol especially will fuck up your liver. Like sekio said, maybe go with the ibuprofen.

Alcohol and benzo's (when consumed in excess) in excess can bring on severe problems with breathing? This happend to me once when i can hardly remember the incident from so much alcohol and xanax. Fortunately someone took care of me with a bowl of hot water, mixed with vics vapour rub and a towel over my head (I had run out of asthma mediciation at the time).

Best

Swarm