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Pentagon to Allow Transgender Individuals to Enlist Despite Trump Objections

Yeah ok, so don't let them on the front line right away. But they still have the whole rest of their lives left.

I'm still not seeing how it matters years down the track. What reason is there to not let transgender people serve long after they've had the surgery or whatever?

And that's just for combat rolls. There's no shortage of noncombat rolls in which they can serve. So I'm still not seeing prohibiting them from serving at all can be sensibly justified.

I get not making the American people pay for any of it. That's fine, hell on the whole I agree with that. I don't exactly consider it a particularly big problem, but I agree the military shouldn't have to pay in principle.

But once we stop paying for it, I see no reason to just prohibit all transgender people from serving. Many of them won't ever even have surgery. It's a broad category of people. Just keep the ones who aren't combat ready out of combat. Problem solved.

Making this into a much bigger issue seems to me to be an excuse to descriminate.

If the real concern is about money, or about being combat ready, that's fine, those are legitimate concerns I can get on board with. But I'm not seeing any problem here where just prohibiting all transgender people from all service rolls makes any sense.
 
Droppersneck said:
^ Even 50k is too much. The point is that we don't want people using the military as a way to get their reassignment surgery imo



https://www.google.com/amp/amp.time...r-military-troops-gender-reassignment-surgery
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"We"? You mean "you".

The Military isn't paying for anything, the "taxpayers" are, remember?

So in your book BILLION plus dollar Stealth Bombers are an appropriate allocation of taxpayer money but 50k surgeries are as you put it "Gaming the system"?
 
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JessFR said:
And that's just for combat rolls. There's no shortage of noncombat rolls in which they can serve. So I'm still not seeing prohibiting them from serving at all can be sensibly justified.
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women are allowed in combat MOSes now, so there's no reason to prohibit transgenders either. if they wanna sign up, let 'em, i dont give a fuck who or what they are as long as they're willing. its better than reinstating the draft. i'll take a willing soldier, any at all, over an unwilling one in my platoon. speaking as a platoon sergeant, the unwilling are such a bitch to deal with. so much paperwork and hassle.
 
If an infantryman isn't capable of being on the front lines - as in, they haven't been properly trained, when bullets strart flying theres no way to know how somebody will react, some of the most high speed soldiers can turn into dirtbags on deployments, and master shammers can really get their shit together and turn into impressive soldiers - but anyway, if they're not capable its because their leadership failed them.
 
Droppersneck said:
Honeslty Jess I'm playing devils advocate, more or less. I think as long as we don't have to pay for any of it, and someone who isn't capable wont be out on the front lines putting folks in danger in the name of political correctness, I'm good with it 100%
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That pretty much summarizes my view as well.
 
^ me too. i think we're pretty much on the same page here droppersneck but your initial posts seemed to imply (i could be wrong) that this was a significant problem due to many, many cases of transgender candidates getting reassignment surgery on the taxpayer's dime by tricking the system. i think we're discussing a negligible number of exceptions, rather than a rule...

alasdair
 
Droppersneck said:
Well at least we all agree for once :) Yes I'm not sure of the numbers with it's occurrence, but I know that it has happened, and I would like to curtail any future surgeries from happening on the tax payers dime.
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You know what, I would believe this if you were at least have way intellectually consistent with your view of "curtailing" the "misappropriation" of tax payer money. However, that is not the case at all. You and I both know you could care less about the egregious amount of money our Military wastes each year. How many posts have you made condemning the Trillion plus dollar defense budget? How many times have you personally addressed and or spoke out against Military officials using Government Travel credit cards to gamble and pay off hookers?

None?

I didn't think so.


No, this is just you trolling the LGBT community to get arise out of, in your words, people who you deem "Politically Correct".
 
If I didn't know any better I'd think you guys were intentionally trying to bait him into another argument after we'd reached an oh so rare moment of agreement. Which seems to me to be no different than what you're accusing him of doing in trying to bait lgbt politically correct types.
 
no - that's not true at all.

on the contrary; i'm agreeing with GnL for once. what's wrong with that?

not baiting, i think it is an insignificant expense in relation to the miliary budget and the sort of wasteful practices i've heard reports of the military engaging in.

i don't personally understand why people are so touchy about someone having their medical and/or psychological/psychiatric treatments paid for, when we're talking about the military - who spend insane amounts of resources on really really heinous shit.

this whole issue - and how trump attempted to ban trans people from the military - is about baiting 'progressives'.
it's political, and it's ideological.
people try to claim it is about economics, but let's not kid ourselves - it's just another way trump panders to his base, by punching down to people he has opposed himself to ideologically.
 
JessFR said:
If I didn't know any better I'd think you guys were intentionally trying to bait him into another argument after we'd reached an oh so rare moment of agreement. Which seems to me to be no different than what you're accusing him of doing in trying to bait lgbt politically correct types.
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They have been doing this a lot lately. They were trying to get me for being off topic, but then I pointed out sj and ali being OT they kind of backed off. The sad part is this just proves my point about liberals/progressives hating free speech and how they try to shut down anything they disagree with. I'm used to posting on /pol/ on 4chan so I can't really wrap my mind around it. Been a fan of your thinking for a while jess. I expect to get banned for another 6 months soon, but this Doug Jones win probably bought me a few more weeks lol
 
I "backed off"?
Nah, i just don't bother responding to silly nonsense.

You continually get banned for trolling, not your political views. But - as usual - you are doing the exact thing you are accusing others of doing; going way off topic.
Nobody is "try[ing] to shut down anything they diagree with" - if you look at my post above, i explain why i have a certain opinion.
That's discussion.
You just obfuscate, lie and waste people's time posting attention-seeking crap to get a reaction.
That's trolling.

You're not being persecuted here; we're extremely fair and reasonable.
The fact that you have to make up bullshit examples of how nasty and mean we are to you just proves that you're nothing more than a whining troll.
 
spacejunk said:
I "backed off"?
Nah, i just don't bother responding to silly nonsense.

You continually get banned for trolling, not your political views. But - as usual - you are doing the exact thing you are accusing others of doing; going way off topic.
Nobody is "try[ing] to shut down anything they diagree with" - if you look at my post above, i explain why i have a certain opinion.
That's discussion.
You just obfuscate, lie and waste people's time posting attention-seeking crap to get a reaction.
That's trolling.

You're not being persecuted here; we're extremely fair and reasonable.
The fact that you have to make up bullshit examples of how nasty and mean we are to you just proves that you're nothing more than a whining troll.
Click to expand...

Trolling is a pretty abstract general statement that is an excuse to ban things you disagree with. The site is dying, why not just let people say their piece? On the rest of the internet we just get along doing our thing. This is why America is the bastion of freedom, we are the only country on the planet that protect absolute freeeeee speech, absolutely. Sadly
 
^^How about you use sources to back up anything you say? Is that too abstract for you?

I'm not bothering to correct any posts of yours because a) everyone knows you're a troll, and b) I read summaries of the crackpot alt-right conspiracy theory sites that you learn about from memes, so I know the biannual phrase you're going to whip out to sound 'smart' before you do ("chain immigration" :D).

Soul? Sole? Seoule? Spell check? Tech job? Autocorrect? Bueller? Anyone?

Hey ______, back me up here. ;)

OT: If Secretary of Defense Jim Mattis, a retired four-star general, doesn't believe that transgender individuals interfere with military readiness and they should be allowed to continue to serve in their current capacity, then that's basically sufficient.
 
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i actually kind of have droppers back here. it'd be boring if we all agreed on everything, even if he's only doing it as devil's advocate to the extreme ("trolling"). the entire point of this forum is to debate, to discuss our differences in search of the closest thing to objective truth we can find. seeking the truth, and not 'converting' others into havig the same bias as you or some nonsense like that.

you know what that means, right droppers? like cdug says:
wikipedian_protester.png



and yes i know he's a troll, but i kinda like the guy, crazy conspiracies and all ;)
 
^^If he didn't post factually incorrect information or at least an occasional source, I could care less about his opinions. For people who don't know about an issue, there's enough misinformation out there. :\

Otherwise, meh.
 
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