Pedophilia: Inherited, Spiritual, Or Who The Hell Cares?

[Growth In Recovery]

This is something that I have been pondering for some time now. A guy that I pretty much grew up with was busted for illegal pornography early last year, and I never saw it coming or could have possibly known some of the deviant thoughts swirling around in his head. I was completely taken by surprise. How could someone that I thought I knew so well be hiding such a dark secret?

Up until this time, I was strictly on the who the hell cares about pedophiles, rapists, and other sex offenders. I believed that we should put them all on an island and blow the damn thing up. I could not comprehend how anyone could commit such a devastating and violent crime.

So I began researching.

Turns out, there is actually a form of OCD that involves an overwhelming fear of being a pedophile. With this in mind, consider the nature of any individual suffering with OCD. They are going to have compulsions, one of which may be to look at or think about unsavory sexual acts. Not only can they become depressed and have a strong desire to kill themselves, but the sense of hopelessness that they feel can be the trigger to performing whatever deed that they have an overwhelming fear of. Fueled by obsessions and a mindset of " I think, therefore I am", I think that some people with mental issues are wrongly treated when they perform any crime of a sexual nature. There is not a one size fits all punishment for crimes like this IMO. However, that is how the current system treats it.

Do not take this as me trying to defend people that commit acts of sexual violence, it is far from that. Just as there are regular sociopaths, there are sexual sociopaths as well. These sexual sociopaths ARE THE DEFINITION OF TRUE EVIL.

However, with all the circumstances and debate surrounding the issue of pedophilia and sex crimes (one of which is a belief that genetics contribute to the behavior), one has to ask if we are taking the right philosophical and spiritual approach to dealing with this issue. Yes, some people are just born others, while others are made that way.

Who is guilty, the man driven insane because he is forced to live in a caged hell, his mind becoming twisted and demented, or the person that actually built the cage and threw away the key?

Should the "one size fits all" punishment philosophy for sex crimes be altered? If no, why?

What aspects / treatments would you add to this philosophy?

Do you ever see the current philosophical and spiritual stances on these issues changing?

 

[rickolasnice]

If they have these uncontrollable urges and / or thoughts and they seek help; my sympathy goes out to them.

If they have these uncontrollable urges and / or thoughts but they never act on them; again, my sympathy goes out to them - it must be fckin horrible.

If they have these thoughts and urges and they act on them - harming a child - Test medicine on them.. Then kill them.

Having pictures / videos of children is not as serious as taking pictures or even physically abusing them but it is still contributing contributing to the harming of that child.

I believe the same goes for rapists.. Unfortunately, in the UK at least, rapists and paedophiles will be handed pathetic prison sentences like 4 years, to be released after two.. And they are given comfortable segregated cells so the other inmates don't slash their throats.

There is a Louis Theroux documentary about a prison for paedophiles in America.. It is purely a rehabilitation centre that they can't leave. They have group therapy sessions, one on one, etc etc and prisoners can leave once they can prove they have been rehabilitated (through various tests).. only one person has ever been released.

https://archive.org/details/LouisTheroux-APlaceForPaedophiles

Btw some reports say 70% of child abusers were abused themselves.. IMO.. it doesn't matter.. Once you abuse a child you should have your human rights stripped and be thrown to the wolves.
It's worth a watch.

 

[Growth In Recovery]

Interesting, will definitely have to check out that documentary.

Ya, it seems that sexual crimes, despite their extreme immorality from individuals that are actually sexual sociopaths, often result in a lesser amount of time spent in prison than most drug offenses. That should be a red flag that the system is broken.

 

[Flickering]

If they have these uncontrollable urges and / or thoughts and they seek help; my sympathy goes out to them.

If they have these uncontrollable urges and / or thoughts but they never act on them; again, my sympathy goes out to them - it must be fckin horrible.

If they have these thoughts and urges and they act on them - harming a child - Test medicine on them.. Then kill them.

Having pictures / videos of children is not as serious as taking pictures or even physically abusing them but it is still contributing contributing to the harming of that child.

Agreed with all, though it's also worth noting the facilities available to help people who want help for this stuff are abysmal. Our sick society is barely coming around to the idea that we ought to be doing anything for people with these urges at all. The damage in that is not just for the person in question, but also for the children they may go on to abuse. As far as I'm concerned, society is complicit in the crime, for refusing treatment for a potentially dangerous condition.

This is especially messed up when you consider the average age a pedophile realises what his/her desires mean is fourteen. In other words, some of the people suffering over the label are themselves children, which is a twisted irony. I can certainly understand how it would screw you up to find out at that age, or even younger, that you are one of the most shunned and hated members of society and there's nothing you can do about it. It would be soul-crushing.

However, having the desire does not make anyone a bad person. Not all pedophiles are child molesters, and not all child molesters are pedophiles. I'm not going to leave someone I know is attracted to kids alone in a room with one, but I'm also not going to hate the person if he/she hasn't actually done anything.

My stake in this is that one of my friends was also busted for child molestation and is in jail - the caveat being he didn't fucking do it. Another sick thing about our culture is that it's firing blind. Anyone can point the finger at anyone on this issue, particularly if the person is an adult male. It's to the point where (and most of my friends agree with this) it's uncomfortable just to be in public around children, because you're worried someone will mistake some innocuous action for trying to look up a little girl's skirt or whatever. Kind of like widespread POCD. And I don't believe this paranoia is actually doing much to help us catch the real bad guys, but it sure it turning up a lot of false positives.

Number one on my personal code, i.e. the topmost priority, is "do no harm to children." I can certainly relate to how furious this stuff makes people. I used to fantasise about brutally murdering rapists and killers of children. It breaks my mind to think about what the last hours of an abducted kid must be like, or the entire life of one who's been trafficked into sex slavery. But ultimately, this kind of reactive attitude isn't what's going to fix the problem. We need to really wake the fuck up as a people. And we probably won't, which is the most depressing part. But it's heartening to see that some people are starting to actually think.

That should be a red flag that the system is broken.

A foregone conclusion to anyone who can use their eyes, but yeah.

 

[_DankOpiAmp_]

The ones who are violent were likely abused themselves. There is another kind that genuinely has these deviant desires from a young age that we do not understand yet. Both these types may or may not be sociopathic personalities (it is probably more likely in the former). The fact that these desires begin at such a young age (sexuality does not crystallize and become fixed until adulthood) means that they are potentially treatable before they commit an offence. The sickening part is that people would rather masterbate to the idea of "sinners being punished sadistically" than take any proactive measures or attempt to understand the problem. I took a criminology course about children who offend sexually and they spoke of this.

 

[herbavore]

It is hard not to despise people that harm children but if it is understood as a mental illness we can both protect children (incarceration in treatment facilities rather than prisons) and at least have some hope of treating/rehabilitating pedophiles rather than just locking them up. Same goes for people that abuse animals, rapists, etc. I know that it is not always just one thing and there is certainly variation in the roots of such a severe imbalance but when you call people monsters and have the kind of vindictive reactions ("I hope he suffers every single day in prison", "better they kill him" etc) that are so common here on the news whenever a pedophile is caught, we all further lose our humanity. In my mind, when I see a person convicted of such a crime, I always wonder--how did he or she get there? What happened to them in their childhoods? What is happening now? People, especially americans, cannot understand the difference between compassion and excusing. Having compassion for both the victim and the perpetrator does not mean you are excusing or accepting the behavior in any way, it means that you accept that behavior is a symptom of problematic thinking(sociopathy, psychopathy, OCD, narcissism). Then you can look for ways to protect society through trying to rehabilitate the person. Locking a person up in a system guaranteed to abuse them and then letting them out angrier and more isolated than ever, as well as marked for life with the worst stigma society holds, is a recipe for even more abuse.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

You cannot genetically inherit pedophilia. Such a notion is utterly ridiculous.

Pedophilia is not OCD.

OCD is a neurological impairment and disorder.

OCD resembles addiction in many ways.

 

[Growth In Recovery]

You cannot genetically inherit pedophilia. Such a notion is utterly ridiculous.

Pedophilia is not OCD.

OCD is a neurological impairment and disorder.

OCD resembles addiction in many ways.

I never said pedophilia was genetic, but that there was a lot of controversy around that general theory.

Pedophilia isn't OCD, I am not saying that it is. What I am saying is that the obsessions caused by OCD can lead to fear for an individual that they are a pedophile. This is exactly like some of the other strange fears / phobias that can manifest in instances of OCD. Furthermore, if an individual happens to be one of the people that have this obsessive fear of being a pedophile and they do not seek treatment for their OCD that their fear can manifest into action. Simple case of cause and effect. Their OCD and the strange / unnatural fear that they experience because of their neurological impairment / disorder creates a situation inside their mind. Left untreated, this leads to the effect of acting out upon the fear. One of the links in the original post explains the relationship between pedophilia and OCD better than I can, if you haven't checked it out, give it a look.

 

[swilow]

You cannot genetically inherit pedophilia. Such a notion is utterly ridiculous.

I think there is actually some evidence that paedophilia has a genetic basis, and genes are inherited...

I didn't actually follow the OP's idea especially well. What is the "cage" referring to?

Either way, I don't see how this OCD oriented paedophilia would be quantified. But I think that the human tendency towards demonization of deviant behaviour is ultimately unhelpful and arguably arbitrary. Throughout human history, various (now) criminal sexual acts were common, whereas things we consider common and 'normal' today were seen as evil. Because of our pretend secular society, we don't have clear views on sexuality- so I am sceptical regarding most generally proscribed, moral notions regarding these matters. Certainly, I don't think paedophiles should be tortured to death...

 

[Alice_Chipper]

Two things stand out. 1. The biomedical approach to understanding sex crimes will give you convienient pathologies because that is their buidness, but genelogical/historical studies shatter this 'science' & reveal the problem of men perpetrating sexual acts against women and children is socially constructed. It was a normal man thing to do without recourse (until activists helped get it recognised as 'crime') & there entered a time of pathologising discourses which legitimised physchiatry & diminshed the mans responsibilty with a mental disorder. In court, it is better to be 'mad' than 'bad'. Yes, people can become dependent on compulsive behaviours, but there is no disputed genetic proof & I worked with so many sex offenders who were chemically castrated & it made no damn difference. Plus, if women are apparently more likely to have OCD so how do you explain the sex differernces?

My second point is that these men would occasionally slip from their ordinary excuses and tell me that they were ultimately entitled to sexually offend women & children. We see this mirrored in disproportionate violence too, as with rapes & sexually harassment. You can't ignore the figures. I know this is controversial but I think cultural masculine hegemony plays a part.

 

[Growth In Recovery]

Absolutely awesome reply! Never thought to apply Taoist views of social constructs to this issue. Honestly, I think that we all have inate desires of pedophilia to varying degrees. In ancient Rome it was common for 12-13 year olds to have sex.

Technically speaking, pedophilia only extends from about age 5-11. After those ages a different term is actually used (the term slips my mind,someone help me out here).

I think mans desire to think about sexually explicit acts like pedophilia comes down to the Mother Archetype proposed by Jung. These desires may not even truly be sexual in nature, but the stigmata around the whole idea prevents any discussion on the healthy release and obsession that men have with their mothers.

 

[fuc]

I never said pedophilia was genetic, but that there was a lot of controversy around that general theory.

Pedophilia isn't OCD, I am not saying that it is. What I am saying is that the obsessions caused by OCD can lead to fear for an individual that they are a pedophile. This is exactly like some of the other strange fears / phobias that can manifest in instances of OCD. Furthermore, if an individual happens to be one of the people that have this obsessive fear of being a pedophile and they do not seek treatment for their OCD that their fear can manifest into action. Simple case of cause and effect. Their OCD and the strange / unnatural fear that they experience because of their neurological impairment / disorder creates a situation inside their mind. Left untreated, this leads to the effect of acting out upon the fear. One of the links in the original post explains the relationship between pedophilia and OCD better than I can, if you haven't checked it out, give it a look.

Pedophilia and OCD are two completely different "disorders," and while I understand that OCD can revolve around any fear or obsession, I don't see a need for a great new category of diagnosis for people obsessed with the fear of being a pedophile or doing something like molesting a child.
That's just my opinion. In the article the author doesn't clarify how this phobia could be self-fulfilling (The C in OCD would imply the patient takes some sort of action out of fear). The risks of OCD aren't fucking it up and going off the rails (abandoning rituals) because that would be the best outcome, facing ones fears.

I see this as an attempt to associate pedophilia with mental illness to further the notion that it is indeed a mental illness. Just doctors tinkering with the publics understanding of mental disorders and pedophilia. From the (poorly written) article: "People with this sort of OCD may worry that they will become gay, commit rape, or cheat on their partners, but of all the forms that OCD may take, I am convinced that worry about becoming a pedophile is the worst." here she is making a personal opinion that illustrates her bias. Grading the degree of which form is "the worst," what purpose does that serve? This is another example of her attempting to inflate her pseudopsychiatric beliefs.

I don't really have anything to say about the way I feel about pedophiles and the justice/mental health system. Just this OCD/Pedophilia thing holds little weight.

 

[swilow]

Absolutely awesome reply! Never thought to apply Taoist views of social constructs to this issue. Honestly, I think that we all have inate desires of pedophilia to varying degrees. In ancient Rome it was common for 12-13 year olds to have sex.

I'm not sure who you are replying to, but this may be interesting to you.

Technically speaking, pedophilia only extends from about age 5-11. After those ages a different term is actually used (the term slips my mind,someone help me out here).

Hebephilia or Ephebophilia.

I think mans desire to think about sexually explicit acts like pedophilia comes down to the Mother Archetype proposed by Jung. These desires may not even truly be sexual in nature, but the stigmata around the whole idea prevents any discussion on the healthy release and obsession that men have with their mothers.

Hmm, not so sure about that TBH. Something about it is too simplistic.

Somewhat off-topic, but the paedophilia that may occur in some mens (and womens) mind is NOT what we should be concerned about. You can think whatever you want and imagine whatever you want, but its when it becomes ACTION that we should be condemning. Another artefact of christianity, the idea that certain thoughts are evil or wrong. Nothing I think is right or wrong, its what I DO.

 

[What 23]

When I was 22 almost 23 I dated a 19 almost 20 year old, and felt kind of "sick", and like I was robbing the cradle.

I think it may have stemmed from a certain guilt for having sexual contact with a 15 almost 16 year old when I was 20. She was a freshman in HS when I was a senior, and we often talked in speech. I saw her at a movie rental store and we talked about tripping/I said I was getting shrooms soon, and gave her my number. She called me one night because her boyfriend had abused her, and she separated from him, and I went to console her/talk. One thing led to another, and we were soon kissing, and whatnot. Her father was okay with it, even bringing her to see me when I worked at the school, painting. So was her mother. They knew my family, and liked me. Probably preferred me to her previous guy. Her previous guy snatched her up when she was 12-13, and he was 18-19. He was a year or over, older than me. I don't know why her parents didn't do anything. So I guess I can't say it was alright that they were okay with her hanging out with me. And she wanted to be with me, in a relationship, but I rejected her for that. I was still in love with another, for one, and she was... too young, to be out in the open with. I knew that. I had an ego. My mom got pissed at me for seeing her (still lived at home, after a failed year at college). "She's only 15!!!". I couldn't think of being in an out in the open relationship with her in the society we lived in, and not be "thought of as scum".

So that experience, and another with a girl who was only about 15-16 who hung out at my work for the summer (age 21), prancing around in bikinis, always choosing to be near, and I took advantage of it once or twice, putting my hands on her (she didn't reject, and she still would come to hang out, after), once or twice. These are some experiences that might have set me up to have a sort of guilty conscious, thinking I was sick for dating a 19-20 year old when I was 22-23

Now, I don't think it was at all unnatural. I think about the only thing "wrong" is that we, due to institutionalization, might be able to cause extra damage, that way, to each other.

But still, I would, in my country, be tried as a sex offender, if any of those two things went to the law. So it's not, in my eyes, so Black and White.

At 32, I think 17 is old enough. Almost half my age. 16 might be pushing it, but I don't really want to get into Black and White rules for this sort of thing. I know at age 16 I was fully ready to have sex with an adult, and if the situation was right, it wouldn't have to be damaging, at all. I guess, though, some are making the distinction that pedophilia is only for children younger than teens. I was just going on the sex offender part. It all gets you labeled as a "sex offender".

Muhammad married Aisha when she was 6. He masturbated with her, and fondled her, in that time, I guess (from what I have read) and then when she was 9 he deflowered her- He had sex with her. I can't argue that given another time, that I would be much different of a man. Not that I have an attraction to young girls, specifically, but if I lived in a patriarchal society, like that, where I could take multiple wives, I might see one that I "wanted", who was young, and I might try to find a way to make her "mine".

As for genetics? I think genetics might play a role in inhibition/impulse control, which lack of might get one in trouble like this. Had I not had the inhibition and fear of getting caught that I have, I may have acted on the couple or a few times that I remember having arousal in response to pre-pubescent girls who were cute, sweet, very trusting of me, and open to me. I can't say it has been often, these impulses, but I can't deny that I have had them come up. I would never act on them, especially not in this world where sex/sexuality is something so feared, and full of consequences. No doubt it would hurt things, and I'm glad I don't have the regret that I might have had I had acted on them, for for example one is now 14, and I have a great relationship with her, and love her, and she looks up to me and likes my attention, and I wouldn't have that had I been a stupid animal in that one time that I felt like taking advantage (had the impulse, or), in my early 20s. I was sexual at a very young age, wanting to get my neighbor Christina naked when I was 6, and showing her me. I had thoughts of her in lingerie. Us married. Of course, I didn't really know what sex was, though. I think we're all quite "damaged" sexually, from a very young age-from the beginning, with or without sexual predators. Thank you circumcision, Church, and the God complex of man.

 

[swilow]

^Interesting post what 23

 

[rickolasnice]

Aye of course these things aren't black and white open shut cases when talking about young adults and teens.. there needs to be some leniency..

Put prepubecent children and adults? Easy.

 

[Bearlove]

We had a Pedophile posting his side of the story before - was an 'interesting yet disturbing' read, sort of addressed a few of the standard questions. The problem with the post, the guy said he would not respond to any questions or read the thread again.

 

[rickolasnice]

I think I remember that..

It wasn't the guy that sexually abused his younger sister was it?

Edit - Thinking about it it doesn't sound like it..

Is that thread still floating around do you know?

 

[Bearlove]

I think I remember that..

It wasn't the guy that sexually abused his younger sister was it?

Edit - Thinking about it it doesn't sound like it..

Is that thread still floating around do you know?

It wasn't that one - this guy was into kids. It was in the SLR section few years ago now (probably archived now), he knew it was wrong to feel that way but couldn't help it. It ran for a while but the OP never came back which was a shame as it's not that often you can actually talk to somebody in that position.

This thread

 

[rickolasnice]

Wow..

Poor.. guy? (Don't remember seeing any references to his / her sex)

Don't think he should have brushed off psychologists without first giving them a go but.. wow..

The fuck? Turns out I read this and was one of the first to reply .. And I wasn't as empathetic as I should have been..