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🌟🌟 Social 🌟🌟 PD Social Thread 2022-2025 v. Year of the Phenethylamine

Got another Shulgin question. He mentions alpha,O-DMT on page 423 under 2,alpha-DMT, entry #7.

Entry #5 is alpha,O-DMS (DiMethylSerotonin), which has an oxygen on position 5, where one of the methyl groups is attached.

How can there be an alpha,O-DMT? T (tryptamine) has not a single oxygen atom! Is alpha,O-DMT perhaps a typo? This is so frustrating to me right now

Edit: almost convinced that it's a typo and on pg 423 he meant to say alpha,O-DMS. He was saying that it'd be cool to investigate the chiral center of 2,alpha-DMT as they did with alpha,O-DM"T"
But that's what they actually did with alpha,O-DMS a few pages prior.

I don't believe alpha,O-DMT can exist, unless I'm missing something about the naming which is entirely possible
 
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porkstock said:
Got another Shulgin question. He mentions alpha,O-DMT on page 423 under 2,alpha-DMT, entry #7.

Entry #5 is alpha,O-DMS (DiMethylSerotonin), which has an oxygen on position 5, where one of the methyl groups is attached.

How can there be an alpha,O-DMT? T (tryptamine) has not a single oxygen atom! Is alpha,O-DMT perhaps a typo? This is so frustrating to me right now
Click to expand...
Is it perhaps 4-MeO- or 5-MeO-aMT?
 
Still haven't gotten around to getting any memantine. Risk-averse I guess. There's a wide delivery date estimate on it, and I don't want to be surprised by a dissociative on an inopportune moment. Been keeping busy nowadays.. which I hate.. not because it's not stabilizing, but because I feel it distracts from some deeper purpose.
 
porkstock said:
Cross posted in the 2cd thread, but it's driving me a bit crazy. Why is it called 2cd and not 2cm? I feel like I've read the reason before in PiHKAL, but I can't find it anywhere. Checked both the 2cd and the DOM (not DOD) entries and nothing. Under BOD, I found the description of why BOB is not called BOMB, but that's as close as I got.
He even referred to BOD, 2CD and DOM as "all of these D-compounds"
But what the hell is D?!
Click to expand...

It stands for desoxy, I believe. I am pretty sure that what happened was, he synthed the TMA series, which are variations of the amphetamine analogue of mescaline. TMA-2 was the clear winner, which is 2,4,5-trimethoxyamphetamine (aka, DOM with a methyoxy instead of methyl on the 4 position, or you might call it, now, DOMeO). It was far more potent and also very psychedelic in nature, than the other substitution patterns. So then he tried to synthesize the phenethylamine, which would have been 2C-MeO (but I believe it is called something else in PIHKAL). But I guess that didn't really pan out, it wasn't potent enough, so he tried taking the oxygen off of it, (desoxy), and 2C-D was a winner, it improved the potency and was a good drug. So he called it 2C-D, D for desoxy. And then went on to explore many variation using the 2C-X nomenclature.

I may be remembering wrong, but I think that's why. I'm not sure whether DOM or 2C-D came first in his journey, but it's always struck me as odd they were not both D or both M.
 
Xorkoth said:
I'm not sure whether DOM or 2C-D came first in his journey, but it's always struck me as odd they were not both D or both M.
Click to expand...
Add BOD to the mix, and it's 2 vs 3, with DOM being the outlier.

I think you're on the right track with Desoxy for D. Thanks
 
I think I recall reading somewhere that Shulgin named 2C-D like that simply because it's the 2C version of DOM. Yeah, not very rigorous but when you are a pioneer, I guess you can get away with that kinda stuff.

Also, have a happy 2023 everyone <3
 
Oh, and I also think DOM is called DOM because it's 2,5-dimethoxy-4-methylamphetamine, which essentially is Di-Methoxy amphetamine, so OM probably stands for Oxygen with a Methyl attached (which is a methoxy group), but twice, so Di-OM or DOM.
It could also have been called DMeo-Amphetamine, or DMeo for short, or even DOMe, but I guess Shulgin liked DOM better.

At least that's what I've always assumed to be the case haha.



EDIT: OK, turns out my assumption was wrong and Xorkoth was right about the D in DOM standing for Desoxy, it's in Shulgin lab book: https://erowid.org/library/books_online/shulgin_labbooks/shulgin_labbook1_searchable.pdf

He wrote about DOM: "lets call it DOM [4] des-oxy methyl "

But under 2C-D he only writes "2 carbon analogue of DOM", which I guess verifies what I wrote on my previous post.
Xorkoth said:
I may be remembering wrong, but I think that's why. I'm not sure whether DOM or 2C-D came first in his journey, but it's always struck me as odd they were not both D or both M.
Click to expand...


DOM definitely came first. His starting point on psychopharmacology was studying amphetamine variants of mescaline. When he figured that the 2,5- dimethoxy pattern generated potent compounds, he tried returning to the mescaline "alpha-demethylated" structure and see how it impacted the effect profile, and that's how he arrived to the 2Cs.
 
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Img_9999 said:
Oh, and I also think DOM is called DOM because it's 2,5-dimethoxy-4-methylamphetamine, which essentially is Di-Methoxy amphetamine, so OM probably stands for Oxygen with a Methyl attached (which is a methoxy group), but twice, so Di-OM or DOM.
It could also have been called DMeo-Amphetamine, or DMeo for short, or even DOMe, but I guess Shulgin liked DOM better.

At least that's what I've always assumed to be the case haha.



EDIT: OK, turns out my assumption was wrong and Xorkoth was right about the D in DOM standing for Desoxy, it's in Shulgin lab book: https://erowid.org/library/books_online/shulgin_labbooks/shulgin_labbook1_searchable.pdf

He wrote about DOM: "lets call it DOM [4] des-oxy methyl "

But under 2C-D he only writes "2 carbon analogue of DOM", which I guess verifies what I wrote on my previous post.



DOM definitely came first. His starting point on psychopharmacology was studying amphetamine variants of mescaline. When he figured that the 2,5- dimethoxy pattern generated potent compounds, he tried returning to the mescaline "alpha-demethylated" structure and see how it impacted the effect profile, and that's how he arrived to the 2Cs.
Click to expand...

Actually I told that story about the wrong drug, I knew the D was for desoxy somewhere. What I said above wasn't exactly right. But DOM is called DOM because the DO means "desoxy"... he meant 2,4,5-trimethoxyamphetamine (aka, TMA-2, which opened up a whole world of some of the very best psychedelics), with an oxygen removed on the 4 position.

At least I think. Don't quote me on that! 'm not a chemist, I just pretend to be one sometimes :whistle:
 
this fucking yocan pen aint working. Something with the battery is messed up. Straight out of the box. Maybe i just gotta leave it on charger for longer but the red charging light just goes off after 30 seconds so i hope it still charges.

O well at least i got my dmt. Will have to try come up with another method to inhale it

EDIT:

Fuck it ima order a box mod i use to vape heaps in the days but not anymore. Will look into direct emesh method suppose to give 15-20 mg DMT breakthroughs.
 
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Yeah it's funny that the 2Cs got their name so arbitrarily. They are the 2 carbon version of DOx, but couldn't they have easily been the 2 carbon version of the TMA series? I'm gonna have to re read PiHKAL after all this. The history of it kinda helps explain the wacky naming conventions. Like if he worked on 2cd right after DOM, it makes sense to name it accordingly. I wish the book have a timeline figure of all the creations.
 
Back home after a week through Germany, the flu wrecked us all lol. Great trip, Berlin weekend glorious as always too. I'd like to go more south next time, maybe go through Austria as well. Observing @Psychestim's habitat!

I really miss being able to trip, painfully so, but at least I got to experience the "contact high" phenomenon.
 
Anyone hear of aMT fumarate?
Apparently it was just recently released domestically... unfortunately the vendor doesnt have the best history... though Ive never had any issues with their products . Id definitely head into the city to get it tested if I pick any up
 
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