Palestine discussion

[-=SS=-]

I read it. And, it does mention that this one area apparently had a problem with a Paki group but it also mentions...

11.2 As has been stated many times before, there is no simple link between race and child sexual exploitation, and across the UK the greatest numbers of perpetrators of CSE are white men.

I'm going to have to assume you're not from the UK and therefore you don't actually know what the hell you're talking about. So let me lay it out for you.

That inquiry report, and subsequent 'independent inquiries', are not actually independent at all. The establishment closes ranks on 'sensitive topics' (or ones that it has a finger in itself), and the main reason why they closed ranks on this was specifically because of the ethnicity of those involved. We have literally just seen the same bullshit play out again with the recent Southport attack where Keir Starmer knew exactly what the score was with the perpetrator but lied, laid flowers (and scuttled away before the public could confront him), banged up native Brit's for expressing severe anger over it on the internet, etc.

They know the ethnicity is a big factor in this. The public knows it is a big factor, given it is the public who are actually affected by this crap, and as much as the media tries to spin, deny, obfuscate, and bury, they can't stop people talking.. and this shit has been going on for at least two decades right up and down the country. People know, alright? We don't need a bunch of compromised bureaucrats telling us what the score is, thank you very much.

Whatever the ultimate reason is why the British establishment continues to bullshit everyone - note that they continue this trend with the boat illegal immigrants as well - it is real. All the big cities, and many of the towns, have these gangs of Pakistani men doing this shit. It was not just Rotherham.

Research has found that group-based CSE offenders are most commonly White.

Lmao. Oh yeah, "research". This is the same bureaucratic legal system that this year alone has let off one of the most well known BBC news presenters with a slap on the wrist (6 month suspended jail term i.e. no jail) for having in his possession several category A images (a child under 10 doing god knows what).

That statement is just a hopeless attempt at obfuscation, trying to deflect. Yeah we know nonces are all over the world, of all colours, but that does not change what we know is going on in this country regarding Pakistani gangs of men preying on young white British girls, and also their communities helping to cover for them as well.

The British establishment can't say it like it is, because the moment they actually acknowledge the problem is the moment this country begins to self destruct. Their lies are the only thing holding back the tide at this point, but it is going to give way sooner or later, and the outcome will not be pretty.

 

[tryptakid]

I'm going to have to assume you're not from the UK and therefore you don't actually know what the hell you're talking about. So let me lay it out for you.

That inquiry report, and subsequent 'independent inquiries', are not actually independent at all. The establishment closes ranks on 'sensitive topics' (or ones that it has a finger in itself), and the main reason why they closed ranks on this was specifically because of the ethnicity of those involved. We have literally just seen the same bullshit play out again with the recent Southport attack where Keir Starmer knew exactly what the score was with the perpetrator but lied, laid flowers (and scuttled away before the public could confront him), banged up native Brit's for expressing severe anger over it on the internet, etc.

They know the ethnicity is a big factor in this. The public knows it is a big factor, given it is the public who are actually affected by this crap, and as much as the media tries to spin, deny, obfuscate, and bury, they can't stop people talking.. and this shit has been going on for at least two decades right up and down the country. People know, alright? We don't need a bunch of compromised bureaucrats telling us what the score is, thank you very much.

Whatever the ultimate reason is why the British establishment continues to bullshit everyone - note that they continue this trend with the boat illegal immigrants as well - it is real. All the big cities, and many of the towns, have these gangs of Pakistani men doing this shit. It was not just Rotherham.

Lmao. Oh yeah, "research". This is the same bureaucratic legal system that this year alone has let off one of the most well known BBC news presenters with a slap on the wrist (6 month suspended jail term i.e. no jail) for having in his possession several category A images (a child under 10 doing god knows what).

That statement is just a hopeless attempt at obfuscation, trying to deflect. Yeah we know nonces are all over the world, of all colours, but that does not change what we know is going on in this country regarding Pakistani gangs of men preying on young white British girls, and also their communities helping to cover for them as well.

The British establishment can't say it like it is, because the moment they actually acknowledge the problem is the moment this country begins to self destruct. Their lies are the only thing holding back the tide at this point, but it is going to give way sooner or later, and the outcome will not be pretty.

Well and my guess is that no one wants to admit that it's a big factor because it'll get misread as "racist" and thus, no one hears that it's really fucking difficult because it promotes a culture of silence of pretending like everything's fine, when it's really not fucking fine, but it's also not really racist.

 

[someguyontheinternet]

Well and my guess is that no one wants to admit that it's a big factor because it'll get misread as "racist" and thus, no one hears that it's really fucking difficult because it promotes a culture of silence of pretending like everything's fine, when it's really not fucking fine, but it's also not really racist.

The report included a section where they analyzed ethnicity and race, they also acknowledge the issues associated with the analysis. The race and ethnicity section is fairly short and easy to read

 

[brokedownpalace10]

That statement is just a hopeless attempt at obfuscation, trying to deflect. Yeah we know nonces are all over the world, of all colours, but that does not change what we know is going on in this country regarding Pakistani gangs of men preying on young white British girls, and also their communities helping to cover for them as well.

But the independent review you have been touting says the great majority of offenders is white. More to the point of your response, it devotes many paragraphs to stating that other minority children are often targeted as well. Did you read section 11?

Gotta save the white women, I guess.

 

[someguyontheinternet]

But the independent review you have been touting says the great majority of offenders is white. More to the point of your response, it devotes many paragraphs to stating that other minority children are often targeted as well. Did you read section 11?

You see we just cite the report when it suits the narrative and then say it's false when it doesn't. Easy!

 

[tryptakid]

The report included a section where they analyzed ethnicity and race, they also acknowledge the issues associated with the analysis. The race and ethnicity section is fairly short and easy to read

That's fair, I more meant that it can be really hard to accept critiques against things that we believe in, even when valid. I also may have not been accurate in what I highlighted as having occurred in this occasion as I didn't know that's what you were responding about. My own flaws sometimes is in seeing patterns of behavior outside of context and trying to connect the dots even when I'm wrong (though it's because it usually leads to someone helping me see where I am wrong which can help me understand better).

 

[mal3volent]

There was probably a Paki gang running this ring in this area and there was a huge stink about that fact.

In this particular area, it is likely that it was a majority of Paki perps although they victimized Paki and other minority children as well.

Right, and that's what the entire conversation was about until someone moved the goal posts and turned it into a broader conversation about ethnicity.

This happens a lot.

Someguy came in and called the existence of rape gangs a far right conspiracy, then when I and others provided information that countered that assertion, he got very petty and trollish.

 

[someguyontheinternet]

Right, and that's what the entire conversation was about until someone moved the goal posts and turned it into a broader conversation about ethnicity.

This happens a lot.

Someguy came in and called the existence of rape gangs a far right conspiracy, then when I and others provided information that countered that assertion, he got very petty and trollish.

I didn't realize it was trolling to read the citation that you provided to disprove your own point

 

[tryptakid]

Right, and that's what the entire conversation was about until someone moved the goal posts and turned it into a broader conversation about ethnicity.

This happens a lot.

Someguy came in and called the existence of rape gangs a far right conspiracy, then when I and others provided information that countered that assertion, he got very petty and trollish.

It's funny because goalpost moving is probably something that is accepted when bias is working in a positive way - like I"m not going to notice when "my guy with whom I agree moves the goal posts" but it's really fucking obvious to me when "your guy who I disagree with but you agree with" does the same thing, despite "you" not noticing.

 

[mal3volent]

I didn't realize it was trolling to read the citation that you provided to disprove your own point

You obviously don't know what the point was.

 

[someguyontheinternet]

You obviously don't know what the point was.

That Muslim rape gangs are a problem in the UK? If i remember correctly SS was using that as an excuse to denigrade Muslims in general as he has done before. Reading the citation you posted disproved SS's "point" that Muslims are a threat

SS was making a claim that specific cultures are inherently bad and a threat using the "rape gang" nonsense as evidence. We have now disproved his claim so thank you for letting me know that is trolling. Very interesting perspective

 

[-=SS=-]

Well and my guess is that no one wants to admit that it's a big factor because it'll get misread as "racist" and thus, no one hears that it's really fucking difficult because it promotes a culture of silence of pretending like everything's fine, when it's really not fucking fine, but it's also not really racist.

This is precisely what happened with the police and various protection services who should have done their jobs but pussied out because of their own selfishness, thinking they'd be reprimanded or lose their jobs for being racist for just laying out the facts.

It's part cultural mind virus and part establishment meddling. There is a big contingent of the public who reflect this, mainly on the far-left, who even to this day continue to double-down and pretend like this stuff isn't happening. You also see it reflected in the notorious British radio presenter, James O'Brien of the station LBC, a great representation of the mental gymnastics some people continue to engage in - note that he lives in one of the most affluent and most ethnically white areas of London lol, so obviously he can deny this shit because it's not his lived experience.

I mean that is really one of the big roots of the whole issue, political correctness. Which came in during the 90's in full force, right around the time that Tony Blair threw open the immigration drawbridge. Which is why I say 'establishment meddling' is a factor in all this, because it clearly is.. there is some nefarious political meddling going on behind the scenes, for whatever ultimate purpose. Regardless, the cost is laid before the public and in particular the young children who have been monumentally betrayed by those who should be protecting them.

Honestly, in any other century we would have hung our leaders from Westminster bridge already. The first duty of government is to protect its citizens, and they are at the very least not up to the job if not actively working in the opposite direction!

 

[tryptakid]

That Muslim rape gangs are a problem in the UK? If i remember correctly SS was using that as an excuse to denigrade Muslims in general as he has done before. Reading the citation you posted disproved SS's "point" that Muslims are a threat

He's admonishing a social trend that many people who live there, including him, see and believe to be true. If he believes it to be true, no study by an outside group is going to change the fact that there's conflicting evidence that he has directly witnessed. Further, when he makes the claim, it gets flagged as racism, when it may actually not be that (which was the point I was making), which makes it even more infuriating because there is an assumption made instead of a willingness to listen to try to understand.

I actually became aware of this last year when we were talking about his views on immigration which I took issue with, but I tried to get a sense of 'the why'. I could tell based on his writing that he's not a shitty person, just that his views were different than mine, and I wanted to get a sense as to what was causing that. It was the reality that there were real problems that progressive blindness to issues were causing and not being listened to, and were just labeled as racist. This probably had the actual result of creating racism while not addressing the problem, but because of progressive ignorance to a real issue which leads to more and more disconnect.

@-=SS=- would you say this is a fair way to characterize it? I don't mean to speak out of turn.

 

[mal3volent]

It's funny because goalpost moving is probably something that is accepted when bias is working in a positive way - like I"m not going to notice when "my guy with whom I agree moves the goal posts" but it's really fucking obvious to me when "your guy who I disagree with but you agree with" does the same thing, despite "you" not noticing.

Why not just call it out when it happens no matter what then let the facts speak for themselves.

That's why I think this medium is superior to many others... here people can read through and see for themselves exactly what happened. Where the manipulation occurred and why. Other places the bread trail would be gone by now or I'd have been downvoted into oblivion with hysterical nonsense.

That Muslim rape gangs are a problem in the UK? If i remember correctly SS was using that as an excuse to denigrade Muslims in general as he has done before. Reading the citation you posted disproved SS's "point" that Muslims are a threat

SS was making a claim that specific cultures are inherently bad and a threat using the "rape gang" nonsense as evidence. We have now disproved his claim so thank you for letting me know that is trolling. Very interesting perspective

You're doing a lot of talking about what other people have said instead of addressing my own words. Just more deflection.

 

[someguyontheinternet]

He's admonishing a social trend that many people who live there, including him, see and believe to be true. If he believes it to be true, no study by an outside group is going to change the fact that there's conflicting evidence that he has directly witnessed. Further, when he makes the claim, it gets flagged as racism, when it may actually not be that (which was the point I was making).

@-=SS=- would you say this is a fair way to characterize it? I don't mean to speak out of turn.

The evidence is not necessarily for SS but for others who come by this thread and read the claims. I have had many encounters with SS and they have demonstrated to me that they aren't interested in engaging in good faith

 

[someguyontheinternet]

You're doing a lot of talking about what other people have said instead of addressing my own words. Just more deflection.

Which words were those? The ones where you told me to read the report?

 

[brokedownpalace10]

@mal3volent , it kinda started with the answer to...

I am now becoming aware of this horrible issue going on Across The Pond. Do know of any sites where I can get more info on all these disgusting degenerate rape gangs.
**********

The UK is having a huge issue with refugee rape gangs and other problems.

And, a lot of the following posts did make it seem as if this was a huge thing, I thought.
The Italian mafia did a lot of shit. I don't hate Italians
Hell, I'm German and there was that one German group in the 1940's

The Reuters article with Musk trying to use this politically, as some are here, even said...


A child sexual abuse scandal that revealed how gangs of mostly Pakistani men had groomed, trafficked and raped young ->white girls<- (gasp) more than a decade ago, has returned to the political agenda in Britain following criticism from Elon Musk.

I just saw a protest today outside of a local Tesla dealership. I hope to see more of that.

Anyway, I was just trying to give some perspective.

 

[tryptakid]

@mal3volent one of the things I respect about you a lot is that you'll push back against the actions of people whose views you actually share (something I get really frustrated by in progressive circles). You've got a good way of calling out the unhelpful behavior while disagreeing (or agreeing) with parts of the rationale behind the behavior. It's one of the things that helps me as a moderator when trying to figure out how to address things that I might agree or disagree with inherently, but need to seperate from the behavior itself that is in need of moderation. It's why I think you're good at being an admin and a benefit to seeing the conversations we have about administration/modding that occur behind the scenes.

 

[Electrum1]

I read it. And, it does mention that this one area apparently had a problem with a Paki group but it also mentions...

11.2 As has been stated many times before, there is no simple link between race and child sexual exploitation, and across the UK the greatest numbers of perpetrators of CSE are white men.

Just go to "11. Issues of Ethnicity" (duh)
It also mentions that plenty of non-white children were molested.

Which jives with the government's report on it.

Beyond specific high-profile cases, the academic literature highlights significant limitations to what can be said about links between ethnicity and this form of offending. Research has found that group-based CSE offenders are most commonly White.4 Some studies suggest an over-representation of Black and Asian offenders relative to the demographics of national populations.5 However, it is not possible to conclude that this is representative of all group-based CSE offending.This is due to issues such as data quality problems, the way the samples were selected in studies, and the potential for bias and inaccuracies in the way that ethnicity data is collected.6 During our conversations with police forces, we have found that in the operations reflected, offender groups come from diverse backgrounds, with each group being broadly ethnically homogenous

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/944206/Group-based_CSE_Paper.pdf

Looking at the total numbers of rapes doesn't account for whites being ~74% of the UK population while muslims are only ~6.5%

Those numbers broken down by per capita between groups will show a much clearer picture

 

[tryptakid]

@mal3volent , it kinda started with the answer to...

And, a lot of the following posts did make it seem as if this was a huge thing, I thought.
The Italian mafia did a lot of shit. I don't hate Italians
Hell, I'm German and there was that one German group in the 1940's

The Reuters article with Musk trying to use this politically, as some are here, even said...


A child sexual abuse scandal that revealed how gangs of mostly Pakistani men had groomed, trafficked and raped young ->white girls<- (gasp) more than a decade ago, has returned to the political agenda in Britain following criticism from Elon Musk.

I just saw a protest today outside of a local Tesla dealership. I hope to see more of that.

Anyway, I was just trying to give some perspective.

I'd say that it can be a true thing that happened, and truth is a great opportunity to manipulate information to fit narratives.

Narrative spinning (something Reality Television Hosts like DJT are very very very adept at) is taking kernels of truth, and editing them in such a way to create a false story with a believable conclusion that is very much seeded with things that actually happened though not necessarily in the way that it's being presented.