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Palestine discussion

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You think Hamas is a normal reaction from Gaza due to Israeli policy, therefor you think it's justified for Hamas to decapitate babies? Oh my gosh!

See how pointless and lazy that is?
 
someguyontheinternet said:
trying to both sides a genocide is pretty pointless and lazy, on top of that its actively harmful
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And even worse, it's inaccurate. We all know only one side of this conflict is truly aiming for the hallowed, all desirable genocide of their enemies. The most awesome of words, the loftiest of goals!
 
Cream Gravy? said:
And even worse, it's inaccurate. We all know only one side of this conflict is truly aiming for the hallowed, all desirable genocide of their enemies. The most awesome of words, the loftiest of goals!
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you're correct, Israel's leaders have been stating that openly for a while that their goal is the removal of Palestinians to take the land


what's truly lazy is simply believing everything a government tells you, thinking is harder

 
mal3volent said:
So much nicer to shoot them in their cribs. Hamas really ain't so bad after all!
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if you actually read the reports one single baby was shot while being held by its mother

but I guess bombing children is your preferred method? that's what Israel has been doing for decades, haven't said anything about that so it must be okay?
 
someguyontheinternet said:
if you actually read the reports one single baby was shot while being held by its mother

but I guess bombing children is your preferred method? that's what Israel has been doing for decades, haven't said anything about that so it must be okay?
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No, as I have already said I do not support the current Israeli government. Comments by current and former officials especially since trumps reelection have made their intentions clear. To be specific, I've never trusted Netanyahu, but indeed i probably gave too much benefit of the doubt to the overall Israeli military apprautus.

Each day that passed it became less and less believable that their military objectives were ever realistic, thus their enthusiasm in continuing to pursue them (knowing the civilian cost) became more and more reprehensible. As for the legal definitions of genocide and ethnic cleansing, I'm not sure tbh, but to me it doesn't really matter. At this point, what are they even doing and how can they possibly justify it when they aren't any closer to retrieving the remaining hostages?

But I still think it's really gross how leftists defend Hamas. Whether they were propped up by Israel or not, no matter how much their people have been mistreated over the years, there is no justification for what they did. What someone said earlier is definitely true. Their ideology is actually the definition of genocide. If you condemn Israel without also condemning them I just automatically write you off as a wingnut who doesn't care about reason or morality. Just looking to adopt whatever opinion is most fashionable and gains you the most social currency, without ever being able to accept nuance or admit when you've been wrong.
 
someguyontheinternet said:
trying to both sides a genocide is pretty pointless and lazy, on top of that its actively harmful
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I'm actively harming people? :ROFLMAO:

I don't pick sides. I'm neither Jewsish or Muslim or Palestinian or Israeli and live several thousand miles away. The only way I could be further removed from that part of the world would be if I was a Chinese peasant living in Antarctica. I spend my days boofing suboxone and playing with my cat.

What are you doing about it? Calling people Islamophobic on internet forums is mitigating harm for Gazans?
 
mal3volent said:
No, as I have already said I do not support the current Israeli government. Comments by current and former officials especially since trumps reelection have made their intentions clear. To be specific, I've never trusted Netanyahu, but indeed i probably gave too much benefit of the doubt to the overall Israeli military apprautus.

Each day that passed it became less and less believable that their military objectives were ever realistic, thus their enthusiasm in continuing to pursue them (knowing the civilian cost) became more and more reprehensible. As for the legal definitions of genocide and ethnic cleansing, I'm not sure tbh, but to me it doesn't really matter. At this point, what are they even doing and how can they possibly justify it when they aren't any closer to retrieving the remaining hostages?

But I still think it's really gross how leftists defend Hamas. Whether they were propped up by Israel or not, no matter how much their people have been mistreated over the years, there is no justification for what they did. What someone said earlier is definitely true. Their ideology is actually the definition of genocide. If you condemn Israel without also condemning them I just automatically write you off as a wingnut who doesn't care about reason or morality. Just looking to adopt whatever opinion is most fashionable and gains you the most social currency, without ever being able to accept nuance or admit when you've been wrong.
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leftists are defending Palestinians not Hamas. apparently that nuance is lost on you
 
someguyontheinternet said:
leftists are defending Palestinians not Hamas. apparently that nuance is lost on you
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Deny reality all you want.
www.aljazeera.com

History Illustrated: The story of Hamas and its fight for Palestine

From its inception, Hamas has chosen armed resistance in its efforts to liberate Palestine from Israeli occupation.
www.aljazeera.com www.aljazeera.com

I never said all leftists. But you know as well as I do there is a significant number who downplay or justify their atrocities. Not just Hamas, but other militant groups as well.
 
mal3volent said:
I never said all , either.
I'm legitimately glad you condemn Hamas, because I'm sure if you took a poll on our discord the majority of them wouldn't.
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that seems like an awful lot of assumptions

everyone I know who supports Palestinians also condemn the violent actions of Hamas, considering that point its really weird how people can't stop making that claim and seems very suspiciously bad faith

how about we focus on the actual genocide that Israel is, and has been for decades, committing funded by our tax dollars?
 
someguyontheinternet said:
that seems like an awful lot of assumptions

everyone I know who supports Palestinians also condemn the violent actions of Hamas, considering that point its really weird how people can't stop making that claim and seems very suspiciously bad faith

how about we focus on the actual genocide that Israel is, and has been for decades, committing funded by our tax dollars?
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You just criticized snafu for both sidesing the genocide , but it appears as if you agree there are significant criticisms to make on both sides.

If I wasn't permanently banned (without ever being provided a reason, which is in violation of protocol) I'd make the poll myself.
 
mal3volent said:
You just criticized snafu for both sidesing the genocide , but it appears as if you agree there are significant criticisms to make on both sides.

If I wasn't permanently banned (without ever being provided a reason, which is in violation of protocol) I'd make the poll myself.
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are you suggesting that the people being oppressed by a genocidal apartheid state should be judged as if it has the same power and funding as the state which oppresses it?

you say all these things about leftists not condemning Hamas for killing ~1200 people? even though I never have seen one not condemn them

and you seem to be using that to avoid talking about the actions which Israel has taken for over 70 years and continues escalating them to this day and only in the last two years they have killed ~55,000 Palestinians. but wait, what about the previous 70 years? how many Palestinians were killed over that time? how much land was taken? homes stolen and sold on the international market?

how many Palestinians need to die for you to talk about what Israel has done?
 
mal3volent said:
It feels like you might have missed my point. If her goal was actually to help feed hungry Palestinians, a monetary donation to the WFP would have been a million times more efficient. Everyone, including her, knew she wasn't going to make it to the shores of Gaza. In case you haven't heard, there is a naval blockade of that entire coastline. She knew with 100% certainty that there would be Israeli intervention. I tend to think that might've been more of the objective.
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Maybe/maybe not - honestly I don't know. As I understand, the food she was transporting did get into US/Israeli humanitarian channels. Hopefully that means that the ends ultimately resulted in aid reaching starving people. The additional effect is that Palestinians who are trapped in Gaza could see that *someone* is trying to help them outside of the obviously dangerous existing legitimate channels that WFP food is being distributed through - channels that have lead to civilian deaths while forcing an occupied populace to rely on their occupiers for fairness.

All of it fucking sucks - I wouldn't have chosen her course of action but I respect her and her compatriots for trying something. Most of us are just observing as innocent people are being slowly starved while the rest of us bicker over who sucks more.

I don't really want to keep arguing about it - if you don't agree with my views that's okay. I just think it's shitty that people want to ridicule an activist for doing what she is known for doing - being an activist and trying to challenge authoritarian regimes, corporatist cartels, and doing so in a way that resonates with the people who follow her actions.
 
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