Pain Sufferers, but we still like getting high.

[JaneSaid]

Hi, new here so please bare with me and I apologize if I'm writing this question on the wrong thread but I really need advice...
Ok so I have severe Crohns disease. For the past 10 years I've been on pain meds. The past 4 years I've been at pain management and had to move abruptly to Pennsylvania (3 weeks notice). While in Maine I was on Dilaudid 8mg every 4-6hs with the Duragesic patch 75mcg on top. I went from one doctor to another and they switched me to methadone 120mgs where I took 4 pills 3 times a day. Now I'm in PA and went to a PCP who said "that's for heroin withdrawal and I do not prescribe methadone". The pain management places around all do injections only as that is where the money is at now that drs are so afraid of prescribing narcotics. I've always been in good standing and I have legitimate pain so it's driving me nuts that I can't find a doctor with sympathy for pain who prescribes pain medicine in my area of central PA. I don't care what I'm prescribed at this point, I just need medicine for pain as I cant take any OTC pain meds due to my Crohns. Anyway, I finally found one place but they need a referral from PCP and need over a month to get an appt.
Long story, sorry to ramble, bottom line is that I am seeing a PCP doctor tomorrow and told the secretary I'm new to PA and need a new primary care physician and someone to refill my medications to which she replied "sure no problem". I'm going to need my other prescriptions (for my Crohns disease) but I know I can't go asking for methadone even though I have the records and one would think a doctor would hold you over on your prescribed medicine until you get to pain management but it doesn't work that way with pain pills, not these days at least. My question is what do you think I should say to the doctor tomorrow and if I should just say I'm on vicodin for pain so that I can at least get something since they're scared of class II drugs and all. Doctors have said to me "I just don't prescribe methadone" so I don't dare mess with that even tho that's what my records say I'm on. So I was thinking I'd dress decently and look clean and responsible,etc and go in saying I need refills on my meds and hand them my meds list and put one long acting like duragesic and one short acting like vicodin or Percocet and if he says I don't write for pain meds I can say "ok well what about vicodin only then? I just can't be expected to go cold turkey" yada yada...
Oh my Lord I'm sorry for the long question but I'm so sick to my stomach with nerves from this and so desperate that I don't know what to do and say at this appt tomorrow. Please, for the love of God, any advice as to what to say to "my new primary care physician"?

Oh sweet nuthin!

 

[Whosajiggawaaa]

Hi, new here so please bare with me and I apologize if I'm writing this question on the wrong thread but I really need advice...
Ok so I have severe Crohns disease. For the past 10 years I've been on pain meds. The past 4 years I've been at pain management and had to move abruptly to Pennsylvania (3 weeks notice). While in Maine I was on Dilaudid 8mg every 4-6hs with the Duragesic patch 75mcg on top. I went from one doctor to another and they switched me to methadone 120mgs where I took 4 pills 3 times a day. Now I'm in PA and went to a PCP who said "that's for heroin withdrawal and I do not prescribe methadone". The pain management places around all do injections only as that is where the money is at now that drs are so afraid of prescribing narcotics. I've always been in good standing and I have legitimate pain so it's driving me nuts that I can't find a doctor with sympathy for pain who prescribes pain medicine in my area of central PA. I don't care what I'm prescribed at this point, I just need medicine for pain as I cant take any OTC pain meds due to my Crohns. Anyway, I finally found one place but they need a referral from PCP and need over a month to get an appt.
Long story, sorry to ramble, bottom line is that I am seeing a PCP doctor tomorrow and told the secretary I'm new to PA and need a new primary care physician and someone to refill my medications to which she replied "sure no problem". I'm going to need my other prescriptions (for my Crohns disease) but I know I can't go asking for methadone even though I have the records and one would think a doctor would hold you over on your prescribed medicine until you get to pain management but it doesn't work that way with pain pills, not these days at least. My question is what do you think I should say to the doctor tomorrow and if I should just say I'm on vicodin for pain so that I can at least get something since they're scared of class II drugs and all. Doctors have said to me "I just don't prescribe methadone" so I don't dare mess with that even tho that's what my records say I'm on. So I was thinking I'd dress decently and look clean and responsible,etc and go in saying I need refills on my meds and hand them my meds list and put one long acting like duragesic and one short acting like vicodin or Percocet and if he says I don't write for pain meds I can say "ok well what about vicodin only then? I just can't be expected to go cold turkey" yada yada...
Oh my Lord I'm sorry for the long question but I'm so sick to my stomach with nerves from this and so desperate that I don't know what to do and say at this appt tomorrow. Please, for the love of God, any advice as to what to say to "my new primary care physician"?

Oh sweet nuthin!

Definitely make sure you're appearance is great, I even put eye drops in my eyes (make em sparkle), use expensive cologne, it conveys respect for the Dr. I've been thinking on whats become an insane oxy dose (500 mgs a day, I've got it down some) about switching to methadone but I feared that my PMD would say exactly what your one did, so I haven't yet.

Make no demands, don't come across as over-knowledgeable, don't mention anything you read online (dr's fkin hate google and web md etc). Just steer him/her to her own choice. Don't come across as overly-desperate and try get your pain controlled before the appointment so you think and talk clearer.

Lastly, stroke the ego when you can. Most Dr's (might be generalising) have a slight god complex. But don't go too far.

Avoid the words: addiction, euphoria, dependance and tolerance (the first 2 are important).

Try go in as confident and comfortable as possible. I usually get my pain under control and listen to a few of my fav songs to get me ready to go before an appointment.

Hope this helps. wtf kind of Dr expects you to go C/T off 120 mgs methadone ?

 

[MartinFn]

Well Whosaj, couldn't say better...you're sssssooooooo right with your advices, i guess you're an expert!!!!%)


MartinFn

 

[Morphling]

It's funny, I do come across overly knowledgeable to my doctor, but as far as he knows I 'research' meds...nah, just been on bl an overly long time, heh.

I was talking with one of the employees at the pain clinic I go to, and he says, "You've done drugs before, huh?" Well yeah, and he proceeded to tell me about all the E he was eating in vacation down in florida! Haha.

At any rate, I wouldn't recommend doing bullshit like that, it probably won't get you very far, but people in the medical professions do a lot of drugs, as I can tell you from personal experience being friends with many doctors and nurses.

 

[MartinFn]

JaneSaid i hope you get the most and best suited for your needs stuff...i really fuckin do..


MartinFn

 

[Whosajiggawaaa]

Well Whosaj, couldn't say better...you're sssssooooooo right with your advices, i guess you're an expert!!!!%)


MartinFn

Years of experience both positive and negative. Thanks.

 

[opiateaffair]

I'd go straight to a methadone clinic and they will do a urine sample put you on methadone you can raise your own dose at least here you can. It will hold you til you get in a pain clinic. I had to do that, until I got my appointment . Only thing is you just have to tell them you been doing opiates and want to get off. I'm sorry it has to be that way. If methadone was not so bad to withdrawl from. It never failed taking my pain away. Remember this was a last ditch effort for me.
Since your on methadone anyway, Hope things work out believe me I know what your
Going through.

 

[Whosajiggawaaa]

Bring methadone clinics to third world countries pls, namely my third world country.

 

[opiateaffair]

My friend lives in a DEA pain clinic state and from her past choices she is on it. I am a witness how she has struggled trying to find a pain clinic that would even 4take her. She has 4 disc up and down her spine that are bulging plus a neck injury.

She tells me she has a great Dr. Now and can get almost anything. But she's an exaddict so if she gets anything good she
AAlways has a fight to keep her pills accounted for. She still likes the feeling of that warm opiate blinky. But then she feels like she failed yet again.

She often ask me if she is a hypocrete as she is now a Christan, I told her God does not stop loveing her because she has pain and a weakness for getting high.

I told her God is concerned about her heart and charactor and no one can ever be perfect. The God we both know is a God of love and grace not judgement.
To say all this she is going to ask for hydromoph #4 for breakthrough. Heehee I told her as long as she don't start ICing again she will be fine, after all she is a chonic pain sufferer.

 

[Whosajiggawaaa]

Dilly is an extremely addictive med for an ex-addict. Rather tell "her" to get something that's abuse proof like the OP OC's or the opana's that gel up that you guys are so blessed with over there 8). It will keep her on the straight and narrow.

I've also found hydro to be shit for my pain. Her pain sounds neuropathic, she should try Lyrica or Gabapentin. But if she wants to get high then guess... proceed.

 

[regal]

My friend lives in a DEA pain clinic state and from her past choices she is on it. .

What is a DEA pain clinic state and is PA one?


Also back to the original topic, getting high is the worst thing you can do for your chronic pain because it lowers your tolerance. I've been on the same dosage for over a decade but I never have taken enough to get high (except one mistake sucking on a fent patch I came across.). But the idea is to keep your opiod level constant so your tolerance doesn't change and it lets the medicine do its work. Granted I' getting older and am finally reaching a point where I need something stronger . But my first pain doctor explained this to me and its true.

Another thing is when you find your current dosage isn't working is to take a couple days off, in bed dope sick with just enough to keep you from calling 911. Then when you go back to your normal dose try to keep it as constant as possible (use a timer.)

 

[jeeves]

SWIM recently completed my residency in emergency medicine. SWIM sees no problems with a patient in chronic pain enjoying the euphoric effect of the opioid medication which they are prescribed. But Regal brings up a crucial point, patients whom misuse the drugs obviously develop a much higher tolerance to the medication that ameliorates their genuine symptoms. Also, keep in mind one of the biggest concerns physicians have in prescribing opiates for chronic pain is narcotics can actually lower the patient's natural pain threshold. This occurrence has been observed since the early 1940's http://www.jci.org/articles/view/101420/pdf/render

 

[Whosajiggawaaa]

SWIM recently completed my residency in emergency medicine. SWIM sees no problems with a patient in chronic pain enjoying the euphoric effect of the opioid medication which they are prescribed. But Regal brings up a crucial point, patients whom misuse the drugs obviously develop a much higher tolerance to the medication that ameliorates their genuine symptoms. Also, keep in mind one of the biggest concerns physicians have in prescribing opiates for chronic pain is narcotics can actually lower the patient's natural pain threshold. This occurrence has been observed since the early 1940's http://www.jci.org/articles/view/101420/pdf/render

Know this all too well . It's why I'm taking over 600 mgs of oxy a day.

For someone who is a med student, seems pretty strange how you think using a stupid childish acronym will afford you any legal protection/anonymity. In simple terms we don't say SWIM here.

 

[jeeves]

Know this all too well . It's why I'm taking over 600 mgs of oxy a day.

For someone who is a med student, seems pretty strange how you think using a stupid childish acronym will afford you any legal protection/anonymity. In simple terms we don't say SWIM here.

I'm new to this forum, I assumed it was a rule.

 

[MartinFn]

^^Opiateaffair, i'm a Christian too, and i think that you speak to your friend very well, all that you told her are right, (or at least that's my point of view, she's a chronic pain patient, and our God is a God of sympathy and not of punishment, so she shouldn't think that God will punish her..).

^^Whosajig, over 600 fuckin mgs oxy a day..??? Oh, boy, WTF, i was in that boat, but now i hope i'm on a smaller one, but i'm not fuckin sure..IDK, but maybe you should try the opana..???..Just a thought..or maybe fent..???. I'm sure U know better...but this tolerance is a fuckin kite.

And well, i'm a chronic pain patient too, i suffer from neuropathetic-so much fuckin-pain..the story started before 10 years, i say it just to have a clue about how the fuckin tolerance has gone..8(..and if you count the years before, when i was on heroin and benzos and weed..(but at least not continuously, with on and off's..). Back to present, my Dr scripts me 15 fent patches (100 mcgr/hr) a month, one every 48hrs..but nothing for breakthrough pain..i'm scripted lyrica and klonopins also, so let's say for the breakthrough pain, when the things go fuckin crazy and the pain goes through the roof, what can i do?? maybe take some more lyrica and klonopins...
Also, in this point i wanna say, that i never ride the methadone boat, IDK, i admit that i'm afraid of the w/d's it has, but i think that it must be a very good painkiller, maybe the best. So, perhaps i left it as my last (and lucky) card..i'm not sure..

But let's see what options have a people who suffer fro chronic pain, to "get high.."
1. Stick two patches, instead of one, and i think you'll be good for the first two days, maybe ok the third, and fuckin withdrawls (sure..) at the day 4...
Conclusion:No, i vote no, but maybe some would think that it deserves the day 4 (w/d)...we're not all the same, for example, i have done it just once, yeah, ONCE fuckin time in ten years. I didn't get high with the 2 patches stuck on me, no fent bliss, just no pain at all. So i don't think it deserves the w/d fuckin day...anyway, let's continue..(I admit that i hate the w/ds, i've gone through a lot of them, mainly heroin w/ds when i was younger, now i'm 38 with wife and kids).

2. Get high on benzos..As you can't abuse the patches, cause there aren't any extras and you don't wanna battle with the w/ds..you can take some more
benzo and get "high". Well, benzo high, is not for everybody..there're some people that they like it a lot, while some others hate it, so..
Conclusion:It's an option for some, but not for all the people..the advantage is that (the most times) helps a lot with the pain..well, anyway..

3. PotentiationMy favorite). Find ways to make your drugs "stronger", this can be through the enzyme inhibition..CYP3A4 or CYP2D6 strong inhibitors, are
often used to make the opies more potent and last longer. The truth is that if yur opiate is metablised through the CYP2D6, you don't have many options,
cause there aren't a lot of CYP2D6 inhibitors, but if it's metabolism is through CYP3A4, you've got a lot of options, (all know about the grapefruit juice and
cimetidine, but there are some more potent inhibitors, but it's not good to use them (for your health). Also, if you do it all the time, you'll get your
tolerance through the roof, so..An other way is to use antihystamines, most people use diphenhydramine (benadryl), but there's also hydroxyzine (atarax),
orphenadrine citrate (norflex) my choice, promethazine (phenergan) and others. When people use them, they don't take much of them, cause they will
ruin the opiate high, a lot of users think that they dull the clean opi feeling, and it's true, so..anyway, also substances like gabapentin (neurontin),
pregabalin (lyrica), baclofen, but as with benzos, it's not clear if they "potentiate" the opiates or rather co-operate, work together with them. Also NMDA
receptor antagonists, like ketamine, methoxetamine, DXM, clonidine, in low doses seems to "drop a litl the tolerance", or you can say that they potentiate
the opies..well..
conclusion:Maybe we can win smth and make our drugs a litl stronger, but not a lot, it's not smth great..so...


Final conclusion:So well, my fellow-chronic-fuckin-pain patient, there isn't a light at the end of the tunnel, or maybe there is one, but it's not so strong...anyway, i think we will always search for ways to "take more" of our meds, keep the pain at low (or better zero..) level, and if we can, we should earn a high, for it's paregoric value..%)
I love you all, i hope the pain dulls, don't give it up my friends, and stay strong. May The God listen our prayers, and make our lives better..
As for some occasional "highs", i'm sure we deserve , and i hope we'll get what we deserve...

I left outside the heroin choice, or buying meds from street, etc, as i wanted to discuss the "legal" choice we have to get high..

All my and greetings to you, stay strong, happy, no pain, safe, and high...%)
Hallo, bro's and sista's





MartinFn
PS:If someone knows/find a way to potentiate the fent, PM me, I'll be very grateful..

 

[regal]

Also, keep in mind one of the biggest concerns physicians have in prescribing opiates for chronic pain is narcotics can actually lower the patient's natural pain threshold. This occurrence has been observed since the early 1940's http://www.jci.org/articles/view/101420/pdf/render

I agree with this. When I had my torsion when I was 20 and just moved out on my own. I didn't know what to do, I just strong armed the pain, then passed out and woke up 12 hrs later. I had enough sense to call the Hospital "ask a nurse" and they sent and ambulance. While they were checking my near dead testicule the doc gave my a bunch of demerol and I could talk, he said I survived a Richter scale of 10 for pain for longer than he had ever seen. Luckily they got a surgeon in at 3AM but back then they didn't avoid nerves and nicked a couple of the important ones.

My pain tolerance is no where near that after being on opiates for so many years.

I blame all the problems with opioid medicine on the chemists manipulating morphine. If we could just go back to the civil wars days where opium/morphine was legal, being a pain patient would be no different that someone who drinks a few glasses of wine a day or even medical marijuana is becoming. But heroin and stronger stuff was invented and ruined things for those of us who need morphine .

 

[deatonfamily4]

"Another thing is when you find your current dosage isn't working is to take a couple days off, in bed dope sick with just enough to keep you from calling 911. Then when you go back to your normal dose try to keep it as constant as possible (use a timer.)"

No offense, but that is horrible advice for some chronic pain sufferers. I've got severe rheumatoid arthritis and am on a Fent50 patch and oxy for breakthrough. If I were to just "take a couple says off" my body would go haywire and I'd end up in the ER because my arthritis would flare up like crazy. All of us chronic pain sufferers who like getting high on our meds really have it tough. There is rebound pain, which means if we run out, our pain comes back 10 fold AND we have to deal with withdrawals. I'm pretty careful about not running out. I save my old patches for breakthrough for when I run out of my oxy, which I always do. People who don't have chronic pain don't understand how different our experiences are.

Finding new doctors is also a fucking pain in the ass that "well" people don't ever experience. You know, I'm always real honest with my docs. I explain my situation and take my med history, and I like going into appointments with a plan. I'll also echo the whole look nice and be respectful tip. So, when I meet a new doctor, I make a little outline on my iPad to take with me. Make a point to have at least 3 things to discuss, that way pain meds aren't the sole focus of the visit. For example, you would want to A. Discuss current treatments and their effectiveness. B. reasonable expectations for the future. Ask them to help you figure this out because when you are sick and there isn't a cure it's hard to predict and understand what the future holds. C. Pain management and how you are functioning right now. Tie your pain management to your daily activities so that they understand and can see where you are coming from. There is a big difference in asking for methadone, and telling your doctor specific details about how the pain hinders you. "I wake up and take meds 30 min before I have to get out of bed because my pain and stiffness is really bad in the mornings. I've been noticing over the past few months that my meds are not working as well because after that initial 30 min I'm still really having trouble getting around. It's always worked really great for me in the past so this concerns me." You give the doctor a problem to solve and then all of a sudden the increased dosage or new med is their idea and not something you asked for. Those are a few tips from me.

How do you potentate oxycodon?
I would like to know if there is a way to potentate the fent as well, so if y'all here if anything please shoot me a message.

I have found myself lately thinking about the fact that I'm 34 and on these high dose pain meds. If I'm on this now, what am I going to do when I'm 50? Shooting out gentle internet hugs to y'all from Tx.

 

[Whosajiggawaaa]

^^Opiateaffair, i'm a Christian too, and i think that you speak to your friend very well, all that you told her are right, (or at least that's my point of view, she's a chronic pain patient, and our God is a God of sympathy and not of punishment, so she shouldn't think that God will punish her..).

^^Whosajig, over 600 fuckin mgs oxy a day..??? Oh, boy, WTF, i was in that boat, but now i hope i'm on a smaller one, but i'm not fuckin sure..IDK, but maybe you should try the opana..???..Just a thought..or maybe fent..???. I'm sure U know better...but this tolerance is a fuckin kite.

And well, i'm a chronic pain patient too, i suffer from neuropathetic-so much fuckin-pain..the story started before 10 years, i say it just to have a clue about how the fuckin tolerance has gone..8(..and if you count the years before, when i was on heroin and benzos and weed..(but at least not continuously, with on and off's..). Back to present, my Dr scripts me 15 fent patches (100 mcgr/hr) a month, one every 48hrs..but nothing for breakthrough pain..i'm scripted lyrica and klonopins also, so let's say for the breakthrough pain, when the things go fuckin crazy and the pain goes through the roof, what can i do?? maybe take some more lyrica and klonopins...
Also, in this point i wanna say, that i never ride the methadone boat, IDK, i admit that i'm afraid of the w/d's it has, but i think that it must be a very good painkiller, maybe the best. So, perhaps i left it as my last (and lucky) card..i'm not sure..

But let's see what options have a people who suffer fro chronic pain, to "get high.."
1. Stick two patches, instead of one, and i think you'll be good for the first two days, maybe ok the third, and fuckin withdrawls (sure..) at the day 4...
Conclusion:No, i vote no, but maybe some would think that it deserves the day 4 (w/d)...we're not all the same, for example, i have done it just once, yeah, ONCE fuckin time in ten years. I didn't get high with the 2 patches stuck on me, no fent bliss, just no pain at all. So i don't think it deserves the w/d fuckin day...anyway, let's continue..(I admit that i hate the w/ds, i've gone through a lot of them, mainly heroin w/ds when i was younger, now i'm 38 with wife and kids).

2. Get high on benzos..As you can't abuse the patches, cause there aren't any extras and you don't wanna battle with the w/ds..you can take some more
benzo and get "high". Well, benzo high, is not for everybody..there're some people that they like it a lot, while some others hate it, so..
Conclusion:It's an option for some, but not for all the people..the advantage is that (the most times) helps a lot with the pain..well, anyway..

3. PotentiationMy favorite). Find ways to make your drugs "stronger", this can be through the enzyme inhibition..CYP3A4 or CYP2D6 strong inhibitors, are
often used to make the opies more potent and last longer. The truth is that if yur opiate is metablised through the CYP2D6, you don't have many options,
cause there aren't a lot of CYP2D6 inhibitors, but if it's metabolism is through CYP3A4, you've got a lot of options, (all know about the grapefruit juice and
cimetidine, but there are some more potent inhibitors, but it's not good to use them (for your health). Also, if you do it all the time, you'll get your
tolerance through the roof, so..An other way is to use antihystamines, most people use diphenhydramine (benadryl), but there's also hydroxyzine (atarax),
orphenadrine citrate (norflex) my choice, promethazine (phenergan) and others. When people use them, they don't take much of them, cause they will
ruin the opiate high, a lot of users think that they dull the clean opi feeling, and it's true, so..anyway, also substances like gabapentin (neurontin),
pregabalin (lyrica), baclofen, but as with benzos, it's not clear if they "potentiate" the opiates or rather co-operate, work together with them. Also NMDA
receptor antagonists, like ketamine, methoxetamine, DXM, clonidine, in low doses seems to "drop a litl the tolerance", or you can say that they potentiate
the opies..well..
conclusion:Maybe we can win smth and make our drugs a litl stronger, but not a lot, it's not smth great..so...


Final conclusion:So well, my fellow-chronic-fuckin-pain patient, there isn't a light at the end of the tunnel, or maybe there is one, but it's not so strong...anyway, i think we will always search for ways to "take more" of our meds, keep the pain at low (or better zero..) level, and if we can, we should earn a high, for it's paregoric value..%)
I love you all, i hope the pain dulls, don't give it up my friends, and stay strong. May The God listen our prayers, and make our lives better..
As for some occasional "highs", i'm sure we deserve , and i hope we'll get what we deserve...

I left outside the heroin choice, or buying meds from street, etc, as i wanted to discuss the "legal" choice we have to get high..

All my and greetings to you, stay strong, happy, no pain, safe, and high...%)
Hallo, bro's and sista's





MartinFn
PS:If someone knows/find a way to potentiate the fent, PM me, I'll be very grateful..

No Opana in my cunt-ry (lol), only hydromorph in the form of Jurnista and it sucks dick even chewing 2 16 mgs (of the white part). Hate jurnista, have tried everything, dissolving and plugging, snorting the dissolved water, chewing the hydro part whole and nothing.

Fent - only tried licking a patch and it was a used 50 mcg hr so wasn't amazed. I've had a lot of pain today and I'm in the sickening oxy range, gonna try the potentiation route when my script starts declining.

 

[regal]

"Another thing is when you find your current dosage isn't working is to take a couple days off, in bed dope sick with just enough to keep you from calling 911. Then when you go back to your normal dose try to keep it as constant as possible (use a timer.)"

No offense, but that is horrible advice for some chronic pain sufferers. .

I just meant stay bed ridden and take as little as you can comfortably (I was exaggerating about the 911), it helps your lower/baseline your tolerance.

 

[Whosajiggawaaa]

I agree with this. When I had my torsion when I was 20 and just moved out on my own. I didn't know what to do, I just strong armed the pain, then passed out and woke up 12 hrs later. I had enough sense to call the Hospital "ask a nurse" and they sent and ambulance. While they were checking my near dead testicule the doc gave my a bunch of demerol and I could talk, he said I survived a Richter scale of 10 for pain for longer than he had ever seen. Luckily they got a surgeon in at 3AM but back then they didn't avoid nerves and nicked a couple of the important ones.

My pain tolerance is no where near that after being on opiates for so many years.

I blame all the problems with opioid medicine on the chemists manipulating morphine. If we could just go back to the civil wars days where opium/morphine was legal, being a pain patient would be no different that someone who drinks a few glasses of wine a day or even medical marijuana is becoming. But heroin and stronger stuff was invented and ruined things for those of us who need morphine .

HERE HERE. ON your premise, I personally don't get much enjoyment out of morphine and find the more I take the more out of it i get, but it works better than anything else OTC for pain, so if it were legal you bet I'd buy it for when I run short on my oxy script. Oxy works much better for me. But I guess I'm an anomaly. Anything morphine based doesn't seem to work as well as oxy for both pain and highness. hydromorph, morphine and even diacetylmorphine, tried em all repeatedly save the latter. My mind is one of my best assets and I hate meds that interfere with it. Believe it or not on 600 mgs a day, I still go to class and I'm still on the verge of obtaining my degree in a profession, I'll leave it at that.