Opioids Pain before fix?

[bluedom]

Here's a new one (I think): you know how it is with addicts that just before they get their fix with their DOC (even alcohol for example) that just BEFORE you do it, your brain is in high gear ready for it? Well, is there something analogous for pain when it comes to opiate use? That is, suppose someone had been using opiates for pain relief (1 year long) and then they tapered off as most of the pain was treated. And then suppose after a month or two they went back to the drug, would they feel pain just before (minutes to an hour) before they took more opiates? In my case, I normally would take a few ibuprofen but since I knew I'd be taking the opiates I hold off and then I take the opiates which of course relieves the pain and gives me relief. So it's almost like a "fix" even though all I am doing is using the opiates as prescribed and further more, we can assume this is an opiate geared towards pain relief and not towards euphoria so it's only about that and nothing else. Can opiates produce such an effect?

 

[spaceyourbass]

Tough question. Could be related to opiates lowering your natural pain tolerance after you stop using them.

 

[Pegasus]

I'm a bit confused. Are you talking about rebound effects?

 

[sekio]

So you're asking, do opiates cause pain problems?

I think you have the situation backwards, my friend.

 

[uproarious]

how is this not a troll thread...god people on drugs are easy to troll.

 

[bluedom]

Well, there is research showing that opiates can increase pain after long term use (damage to nociceptors?): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opioid-induced_hyperalgesia Yes, I am talking sort of about a rebound effect that goes beyond the opiate receptors or endogenous opiates increasing in number as opiates are withdrawn (but it may be related to that somehow, but it has to do with cellular pain mechanisms which may atrophy or are misused when CNS pain blocking is the eminent method of dealing with pain). So I'm asking has anyone experienced it in a big way and especially AFTER breaks and just before going back to opiates. If it real or does the body routinely tend to fake you out like this for long term opiate users who started using it to deal with pain (and still do, i.e., aren't addicted but can be severely dependent)?

That's the unique aspect of my question. Opiate induced hyperalgesia is something I feel I experienced also but that was when I was taking the opiates. I'm talking about stopping and starting and then experiencing an ANTICIPATION of the rebound effect.

I'm sure some alcoholics know what I'm talking about there where just before you take your first sip you feel your body gearing up in anticipation of it that's not craving but rather the indication you'd be taking alcohol for. It's almost as if your body generates, say, a brief mild anxiety, to perhaps mentally or physically "justify" the alcohol use (and the overlap between alcohol and opiate dependency/addiction still needs to be resolved I think).

A related question is whether opiate induced hyperalgesia leads to a kinding effect that may increase potential for addiction down the road. It happened like this with me for alcohol. My constant stopping and starting of alcohol as I felt like it (for stretches as long as a year) actually seemed to contribute to my increasing alcohol addiction (which was obviously increasing anyway in a sense). Whether it is causal or not is still debatable BUT there is a phenomenon known as the kindling effect (more accepted in epilepsy which I was diagnosed with also as my alcoholism increased---it's a complicated situation; I'd argue my anxiety as a result of a epilepsy increased my alcoholism which made treating it much more difficult since I combined epilepsy medications with alcohol since I was an addict to it).

In both questions I'm worrying about going from dependence to addiction. (You'll see a pattern my questions there if you search my username so it's not troling. But I'm asking a more technical question, one that is related to addiction, but doesn't have to be.

I appreciate your response spaceyourbass, and that has happened and I felt I was beyond that but it could be just that + coincidence. I was wondering about the latter part. I guess allodynia comes close and that could be partly responsible too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allodynia but whether it is a coincidence or not is still the open question. If I'm the only one experiencing this, I'm more prone to attribute it to coincidence (it could be my genomic make up but that's not easily resolvable). If a bunch of people post and say "me too!" (seriously of course, not just because they're using AOL, America On Line ) then a biological mechanism can be considered.

 

[bluedom]

Here's an update, and it is partly an answer to whether opiates cause pain problems. I find it hard to believe myself, but as I've written, after being on opiates for a year I tapered off and switched to medibles and gabapentin which was effective but tolerance was an issue. I also initially found medibles to be "addictive" (but no longer---if I never ate another medible in my life I'd be fine ). I then decided to experiment with modafinil and gabapentin and it works (as of two days now)! I do think medium/long term use of (potent) opiates mess can with your perception of pain in weird ways. Understanding how medibles can relieve pain is easy for those who use it, but how do you explain modafinil "working" (or is it the upper high I feel that lets me ignore my pain)? This is the strangest thing yet.

 

[shady4091]

I understand completely what you're asking. If someone using opiates for pain problems, quit for a year and their pain problems go away, then relapse on the opiates, would their psychological mind cause them to feel the previous pain problems they had moments before using?

And my answer... I have no fucking idea... Haha

 

[Fire&Water]

Sounds like a "matter over mind" problem to me.

 

[Pegasus]

Here's an update, and it is partly an answer to whether opiates cause pain problems. I find it hard to believe myself, but as I've written, after being on opiates for a year I tapered off and switched to medibles and gabapentin which was effective but tolerance was an issue. I also initially found medibles to be "addictive" (but no longer---if I never ate another medible in my life I'd be fine ). I then decided to experiment with modafinil and gabapentin and it works (as of two days now)! I do think medium/long term use of (potent) opiates mess can with your perception of pain in weird ways. Understanding how medibles can relieve pain is easy for those who use it, but how do you explain modafinil "working" (or is it the upper high I feel that lets me ignore my pain)? This is the strangest thing yet.

Modafinil is a "wakeness promoter", so maybe the sensation you're referring to as pain is actually related to a lack of energy? I know that if I say I'm hurting, I'm either lacking energy or injured.

 

[bluedom]

The pain is definitely caused by injury to my spine/vertebrae from a curable disease, which I've been told I'm indeed cured of. The damage itself is healing slowly. So initially at least the cause of the pain is very much physical, and the opiates did alleviate it. In my case, modafinil does seem to be messing with my serotonin system subjectively speaking (MDMA-like effects) which has been been implicated in alleviating pain.

Shady4091 has a good way of re-asking my question.