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p2p

Doclad

Doclad

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Mar 17, 2015
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Goodnight.

I have finally received the results of the IPPH analysis by EnergyControl.
The results show synthetic impurities, among them Phenylacetone (p2p), no information about its possible toxicity, if there is such a thing.
Could someone throw a little information on this substance? It seems to be a metabolite of amphetamine.


Thank you

Doclad

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenylacetone
 
Yeah right.

Is there any danger from dosing some amount of Phenylacetone in the body?
My intention is to dose IPPH by nasal route. EnergyControl does not know if it is able to quantify how much Phenylacetone there is in the sample, I am waiting for an answer. I am always in time to do an A / B extraction to eliminate p2p, even so, I wanted to know if there is any adverse effect with p2p, if it is psychoactive in any way, or simply it is a metabolite without pharmacological importance.


Thank you

DocLad
 
I found a safety data sheet (https://www.caymanchem.com/msdss/16103m.pdf) last updated in 2015 that briefly states the toxicological effects of p2p haven?t been well documented. It also mentions optic nerve atrophy under the symptoms of exposure, among other uncomfortable symptoms although it doesn?t state at what exposure method or level these symptoms occur.

If you have serious concerns about the health risks you might want to clean your substance just to be safe.
 
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Thanks for having taken the trouble to look for this information. I intend to do an A / B extraction and remove p2p from the lot.


DocLad
 
A water wash should clear out any residual P2P. Its not the sort of chemical that will immediately jump you and melt your face off.

When pure, it is a clear oily liquid, soluble in nonpolars. Insoluble, or at least almost completely so in water. What is the compound you are intending to take that has the P2P traces remaining? the water wash is based on my guessing its some sort of stimulant amine, and thus polar, so the drug should be soluble in water or dry alcohols whilst the phenylacetone is not.

Also, one can also 'trap' the P2P for later use if you have a large amount of drug or large contamination and use it to make amphetamine, methamphetamine or N-ethylamphetamine via multiple reductive amination routes posted online.

The way to 'trap' it, is to use sodium bisulfite (bisulfITE not bisulfATE) which is frequently used in winemaking and thus available in stores that cater to wine/beer making hobbyists. This forms an adduct which is insoluble in H2O, with the carbonyl group of P2P, bisulfite, or metabisulfite both can be used, and they form solid adducts with ketones and aldehydes, the ketone or aldehyde can then be regenerated with mild base, such as sodium or potassium carbonate.

The adducts are generally soluble in bugger all to any great extent, so in the absence of a vacuum pump powerful enough to vac distill the P2P, adduct formation and solvent washing can be used to clean P2P in preparation for 'phet synthesis. Its a second-best method really, but its there and it isn't complex either, kind of a standby if your vac pump breaks or isn't powerful enough
to pull over P2P.
 
Thanks for your answer Limpet_Chicken.

Any proposal that avoids having to perform an A / B extraction is welcome.
So, do I dissolve HPPD in a minimum amount of distilled water and filter the solution? As simple as that?
This is the kind of information I was looking for.

DocLad
 
First of all you haven't told us what substance you are trying to remove the P2P from. Solubilities vary, details like hygroscopicity vary even between salts (contrast amphetamine HCl, super hygroscopic with the sulfate which can be kept out in the open just fine)

And, what does the product smell like? P2P has a sort of sweet smell, like a bouquet of flowers, not overpowering, quite pleasant.

Also its not synth discussion, its telling the OP how to remove the P2P from his product. Its hardly unlikely that the synthesis is something the OP already DID=D

I'd wash the salt of your presumably amphetamine, methamphetamine/ethamphetamine with dichloromethane, rather than dissolve it in water. Because if there is only a small amount of P2P present that would require a very small microscale sep funnel and be a real pain in the ass. Chances are the salt won't dissolve in dichlor, and phenylacetone is most definitely extremely soluble in dichlor, DCM is my favoured solvent in fact for it, its low boiling and can be rapidly stripped with just an aspirator vacuum, leaving the P2P behind (if you need to store P2P btw, just a hint, its best stored as its bisulfite adduct to prevent oxidation)
 
It isn't going to help the OP if you have the information in question and withhold it. And yes you can help it, don't talk fucking bollocks.
 
Good luck with not being arrested, charged and convicted for possession of the stuff without a license. Even small amounts require scrupulous book-keeping and you WILL be checked - we ordered 500mL and got a visit inside a week. We even had to prove where it had gone - and saying you spilled it will not work. Safe custody laws apply. Most people seem to read the MoDA but few look into the licensing regulations. Recovery of the stuff via a bisulfite adduct is the way you do it in a lab, monovalent cyanide salts with an acid are used commercially (they will remove the small amounts of hydrates formed) but then you end up having to pay a fortune for disposal... if you survive the copious amounts of HCN.

If you are asking these questions - ones that are in every textbook and taught to every chemistry student, well it doesn't sound like the words of someone 'skilled in the art' as patents are apt to say. BMK is absorbed through the skin and it isn't healthy. That is a personal experience. Methamphetamine is not a wise thing to make - unless you like the idea of sitting in prison considering all of the lives you have ruined. There are dozens of unlisted precursors that slip through the net - far more than people realize, but it's dangerous stuff.

Levophacetoperane is only controlled in France (AFAIK) so if you need a small amount of a stimulant for medical purposes, just organize a script for this stuff - it's somewhat safer and won't end up sending you to prison. Of course, if you are considering making meth to sell, posting on BL has just brought you to the attention of the security services. BL is quite OBVIOUSLY watched because people so frequently ask ill-considered questions. So well done.
 
Thanks for the answers.

My intention isn't to isolate p2p for any kind of use, I just want my IsoProphylPheniDate to be clean of impurities. I have DCM, so it will be useful for the purposes mentioned.

I'm a little lost with the evolution of the thread, anyway for me the doubt I had has already been resolved

Thanks Bluelighters


DocLad
 
recrystallizing your IPPH from alcohol or acetone or somethign of the like should be enough to clean it up

but at the end of the day, phenylacetone in trace amounts is not toxic, it's a metabolite of amphetamine anyway.
 
IsoProphylPheniDate? Do you mean isopropylphenidate? Well, you can't make it from P2P. So either you are lying about the product you're aiming at or you don't know much organic chemistry. I gave you a simple way to legally acquire an uncontrolled compound with very similar activity to the compound you profess to be looking for. Please don't think organic chemistry is simple or safe. It takes 3 years to obtain a degree and another 3-4 years of post graduate qualifications in medicinal chemistry to be proficient in drug synthesis. As I have heard from so many law enforcement officers 'the quickest way to find a meth lab is to follow a fire-truck'.

There are a whole stack of uncontrolled precursors and a whole stack of better products - some so novel you can just get a Chinese lab to make them for you. The thiomorpholine analogue of desoxypipradrol/3-benzhydrylmorpholine is overlooked and the oxidation-state of the S reduces duration sufficiently to make it practice - it's like methylphenidate but it's still pretty destructive as all of these potent stimulants are. If it's just for 1 person, just order from Tocris. Things like (?)-McN 5652 are available (and legal AFAIK). From a safety perspective, sertraline is well studied and since only the S,S-enthiomer is used, the trans isomers are waste although they are actually NRI/DRI sub-nM ligands. I can remember us using them in animal models and even in these days where we routinely extract and racemize unwanted enthiomers, there is still waste (R,R) which Santa Cruz biomed offer. Just remove the methyl from the amine and it's very active (affinity, pKa & LogP clearly show that).... but a phenidate from BMK. Please don't go into a lab; you will harm yourself or worse, harm others.
 
Good afternoon.

Clubcard, I don't know who your answer is addressed, my intention in opening this thread was to find a way to eliminate p2p from an IPPD batch that I bought on the web because EnergyControl informed me that it was contaminated. I do not lie about the product nor do I want to be an expert on organic chemistry. Nothing of that.
I think your answer is exaggerated, maybe it was more appropriate in a thread about advanced chemistry or something like that, I do not know. But taking into account the purposes of my publication, as it is said in Spanish, "you have peed out of the pot". I don't try to be offensive, that's what I think. You should read the matter well before responding in this way: "... Well, you can not make it from P2P. So you're lying about the product you're aiming at or you don't know much organic chemistry ..." Evidently this comment shows the little interest you've had to know the purpose of my publication.

Sekio, I have DCM, methanol, pure acetone, ethanol and ISO. What do you recommend to me for purification?.
IPPD is in salt form, I guess it will not dissolve in any non-polar solvent or even in ethanol or acetone. Should I crystallize it by bringing the solvent to its boiling point and then let it cool?


DocLad
 
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Please don't go into a lab; you will harm yourself or worse, harm others.
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone here is claiming to have made IPPH from P2P, it seems to me a case of "chinese RC lab didn't clean the glassware enough".
It's true that you cannot make any of the -phenidates from phenyl-2-propanone. It could also possibly be a misidentification of a very low abundance impurity.
Did EnergyControl provide any information on the percentage abundance of the impurity? Because if you're looking at 5% or less, there's almost no benefit to purification.

If it's just for 1 person, just order from Tocris.
Click to expand...

I somehow doubt Tocris will sell to individuals :)

According to SWGDRUG, methylphenidate HCl (no data for EPH or IPPH) is slightly soluble in chloroform (presumably similar in DCM), freely soluble in water and methanol (probably similar in IPR and ethanol), soluble in acetone. The free base is soluble in acetone and diethyl ether.
Without any actual quantitative data on solubility you'll have to try solvents by brute force to see which supports crystallization best. You ideally want a solvent where the solubility of your compound is high in the solvent at reflux (boiling) and low at room/fridge temperature.

If I were to try to remove any nonpolar compounds from IPPH I would dissolve the IPPH in methanol and attempt to extract the alcohol with hexanes. Ideally the IPPH.HCl stays in the alcohol and the P2P partitions to the hexane. VM&P naptha will work too. You may need to add up to 10% water to the MeOH to ensure complete partitioning.
 
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It was aimed at me, the edited post, someone said they just couldn't help themselves but not be arsed, more or less.

The 'phenidates are esters, don't forget, so they are among the more polar of polar salts, so may well be soluble in alcohols, especially MeOH and EtOH. Not sure about acetone, acetone is polar but then again meth is very, very slightly soluble as the hydrochloride in acetone, although considerably less so than it is soluble in H2O as the freebase. I'm not sure about acetone solubility of the ritalinic acid esters

As for doing a re-X, how much do you have? whether or not its worth recrystallizing depends on quantity.

If you have a decent amount then it might be. I'd do at least a paper chromatography to determine impurities, if not qualitatively, then in a relative quantitative manner (I.e amount of impurities relative to the drug, also number of impurities)

Something I find really useful in cleaning things on a small scale, when working with grams or less to a few g when doing recrystallizations, is to have some borosilicate glass beakers in sizes ranging from 5ml up to 25ml in 5ml increments; plus a few 50ml beakers for holding solvents which are in use at the time and dispensing smaller measures from.

Also, if you know WHAT the impurities are then you could make use of a dual-solvent recrystallization.

(edit-the post above this was typed as I posted).

One thing however, if you can, then use pentane or heptane, or isohexane, rather than mixed hexanes or n-hexane. This is because n-hexane, unlike any of the other isomers of hexane, forms a neurotoxic metabolite, 2,5-hexanedione, that ends up causing a crosslinking of lysine residues in nerve axons, fucking up axonal transport. n-hexane is atypically toxic for a saturated aliphatic hydrocarbon, and where alternatives exist it is better to use one. Also pentane has the advantage that its really quite low-boiling, and can be stripped away quickly.
 
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Hexanes aren't that awful if you don't stand around huffing them. Use proper ventilation and don't use it as a body wash.

AFAICT pentane and heptane tend to cost $$$$ more than mixed hexanes/pet-ether.
 
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