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P. Cubenis and Syrian Rue - Dosage advice

I

infectious

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Feb 12, 2011
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I'm very experienced with hallucinogens of all sorts, and I have had 20-30+ Psilocybe trips. Unfortunately, shrooms have been hard to come by in my area for the past several years. A friend of mine is growing some, just had pins poke through on one cake, so we'll prolly be tripping within a week or two. Of course, both being experienced, we plan our test dose to be 1/8th a piece. I have personally been rocked by some particularily potent shrooms on as little as 6g.

We want to make the most of these gods, and so I suggested we cosume Syrian Rue along side, seeing as we have maybe 20ish grams of Rue leftover from our last ayahuasca experiment. I know the Rue is an MAOI, and is said to potentiate shrooms similar to DMT. What I don't know is dosage info and timeline. We will be making the Rue into a tea, and will be consuming the shrooms simply by eating them. We may dry them, though as neither of us have ate wet, this prospect is intriguing. I've read Rue for MAOI qualities is dosed at 1-3g. Last time, as Ayahuasca, we prolly made a tea with 4-5g, and it worked.

What dosage should we choose (for Rue)? When should we consume the Rue in relation to the shrooms? What should we expect {such as amount of potentiation (2x, 3x, etc?), increase of duration, augmentation of effects, any added adverse effects not found with shrooms alone (purging is assumed, Rue tea is vile), increase (or decrease) in tolerance}? What are your preferences; Shrooms alone, or shrooms + Rue (or similar MAOI)?

EDIT: I should add that we are both very curious psychonauts. Regardless of benefit or lack thereof, the shroom/Rue combo will be tried at least once for the sake of novelty. Also, my friend has become quite found of opiates as of late, doing them more often than not. I assume he will not take any opiates during the shroom sessions, but they will undoubtedly be in his system. Will an MAOI have any adverse effect, if say he took Suboxone or hydrocodone the day before?
 
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The main contraindicated opiod with rue is demerol and tramadol as they mess with seretonin. I usually take an eighth of rue, that dosage will double a shroom trip in intensity while adding a really sedating element and boosting the visuals profoundly.

Happy trails
 
Well, he doesn't use demerol and almost never uses tramadol, so I guess he'll be fine. We'll prolly split Rue tea made with 5g, while maybe eating the equivalent of 5g dried Cubenis a piece, depending on yield. We are both interested in trying Terrence McKenna's suggested 5g dried in a dark, quiet room, prolly only talking to each other in order to make sure we both got off.

Any effect on duration?

If it's any help, while we both use other drugs hedonically, our intentions with psychedelics are exploratory or shamanic. We are not merely looking for a good time, but something Spiritual.

EDIT: Aight, I just rechecked Erowid, and it seems I was mistaken on Rue dosage. It lists 3-6g for MAOI potentiation, not 1-3g. So we'll prolly split a tea made with 8g. Should we take this at the same time of the shrooms, or perhaps an hour earlier, or more? We took it maybe 30-60minutes before when doing the ayahuasca, and it definitely worked otherwise the DMT would not have been active, and it most certainly was, but I do not know if this was neccessary, as we never tried dosing the Rue and DMT at the same time.
 
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Take your mushroom dose down a notch, man. Mushrooms + Rue was very brutal for me, mushrooms can be that way on their own but with the added MAOI it really felt like there were no brakes on the thing. Sure it might sound good on paper and you just intend to totally let go... but it was deeply serious and mysterious for me and I highly recommend you don't take more than the usual 3g dry mushrooms or actually ideally less to account for the potentiation. You can always go higher next time, getting the most out of it doesn't mean it's a particularly good idea to dive off the deep end. Don't be so worried that it won't be enough.

I vividly recall a vision on this combo of myself sitting in a chair in some backdoor room, possibly restrained. Then another version of me walks in the door and looks at me prying, clearly failing to understand, comprehend or even recognize me or any non-verbal communication. Not a word was spoken. It was extremely estranging. Make of that what you will, just an anecdote.

I'm pretty sure I had no more than 2 grams of mushrooms and 4 grams of rue.
 
Solipsis said:
I vividly recall a vision on this combo of myself sitting in a chair in some backdoor room, possibly restrained. Then another version of me walks in the door and looks at me prying, clearly failing to understand, comprehend or even recognize me or any non-verbal communication. Not a word was spoken. It was extremely estranging. Make of that what you will, just an anecdote.
Click to expand...

 
Solipsis, your concerns are duly noted, and I prolly won't go that high if using Syrian Rue as well. You are wise to caution me, as one must always have respect for psychedelics. My last great shrooms trip was when I ate roughly 6g of quite potent dried Cubes. I was cocky, and the mushies humbled me. Still, I enjoyed the experience, and I handled it fairly well, all things considered. Usually, an 1/8th isn't that strong for me. I am a bit of a hardhead, and while shrooms have not been my main entheogen (due to availability and price, as I prefer shrooms to most other psychs), I have had several hundred trips. Likewise for my friend. I'll prolly save the 5g dried, lights-out experience for shrooms alone. I'll prolly just go with 1/8th and 3-4g Rue, as I am aware of what 1/8th alone should feel like for me, and this will give me an idea of just how much potentiation occurs.

But yes, the intention of the experience is to completely "let go". It will not be done in a party enviroment, and I have no intention of being able to communicate with my friend. I do not want to be able to discern "reality". The goal is to have a breakthrough experience, something which 1/8th of shrooms alone has never presented to me.
 
I don't find an MAOI potentiates mushrooms at all - that's something that people who arn't familiar with oral DMT say. What it actually does is give you a DMT trip instead of a psilocybin trip. That means it's vastly more psychedelic and there'll be typical DMT visuals exploding in the air around you.

If you're experienced with ayahuasca I'd take your normal mushroom dose on top of the MAOI. I've only ever used moclobemide as the MAOI so I'm not experienced with rue dosage but I always take my full dose of mushrooms on top of the moclo. If you're familiar with ayahuasca you'll instantly recognise the headspace you'll be taken to.

I definately wouldn't underdose the mushrooms - a threshold oral DMT experience is the most annoying, disappointing trip in the world. You'd be better off just taking mushrooms as taking a low dose of mushrooms/maoi. Take the full dose of mushrooms and enter DMT land confidently. It's a once in a lifetime experience - beautiful bodyhigh (no nausea like you get with ayahuasca) and incredibly pyschedelic. Just like oral DMT. Good luck!

EDIT: Maoi 45 mins before mushrooms. Duration of mushrooms/maoi is probably a little shorter than mushrooms alone. The peak will be a lot higher but it doesn't quite last as long, difficult to time because you're so high you arn't paying attention but I always got the feeling that it was slightly shorter. Not by much tho. Probably the most euphoric experience I've ever had - oral DMT is simply the daddy of all psychedelics in every regard. Emotionally, best for listening to music, greatest bodyhigh ever of any drug including MDMA, greatest visuals etc. And taking it through mushrooms you don't get the nausea that can put you off taking oral DMT with extracted DMT.
 
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I've been wondering about this too and it made me wonder why we don't have a big and dandy Syrian rue thread.

I've smoked rue before dmt and it seemed to potentiate it but what about smoking rue during a mushroom trip?

Since reading about smoking harmala while on shrooms in true hallucinations by Terrence McKenna I was wondering if people had the same effects with rue
 
I've been wondering about this too and it made me wonder why we don't have a big and dandy Syrian rue thread.

I've smoked rue before dmt and it seemed to potentiate it but what about smoking rue during a mushroom trip?

Since reading about smoking harmala while on shrooms in true hallucinations by Terrence McKenna I was wondering if people had the same effects with rue
 
I wouldn't think you could ingest enough MAOI through smoking to get any effect. Never tried it tho.
 
Yeah, just an educated but unexperienced guess, Erowid list the dosage of Rue for MAOI effect to be 3-6g. On the low end, and also assuming a liberal 1/2 of the material needed, you're still talking about smoking at least 1.5g. Not undoable, I bet I could smoke that much rather quickly, but still it seems like the best route to go would be extraction. I'm sure smoking the seeds, even powdered, would be a difficult task to say the least.
 
Oh, and I'm cool with it being more like an oral DMT trip, but seeing as it has been too long since I actually ate shrooms, maybe 2yrs (thought I've had plenty of other psychs and dissociatives in that time), I'm really looking for to a mushie trip. I may just start by eating 5g shrooms by themselves, then mixing in the Rue on my second go. My buddy intends on growing long-term, and upping production as soon as he gets it down, as for his and my personal use, no intention on selling or even sharing, as he wants only himself and me to know bout it, given the legality. We are kinda hoping to hold weekly Shaman's Church, maybe subbing ayahuasca and mescaline-cacti from time to time. Like I said, we are not just looking to get high...There is plenty of opiates, stims, and pot in the area for that purpose, along with my sizeable acces to RCs. But even with RC psychs, they seem purely hedonic to us, all pretty lights with no Spiritual depth, even at heroic doses Rather we are seeking plant-based psychs to be used in a ritualistic context.
 
Rue is a low quality MAOI - you're never sure whether you've got a big enough dose and it causes some shitty nausea. Moclobemide is easy to get and probably works out cheaper - the trade name is aurorix. No nausea with moclo. I think enjoying the DMT in physical comfort outweighs any theoretical benefits of using a "plant".
 
Is moclo easy to get in the States? I read on Wiki that it isn't approved in the US. BTW, I have a motto, "Never let nausea stand in the way of a good experience." I have what most would call an appreciation of purging.
 
I found ~3 gm pretty reliable, but not dosed high enough to even yield many overt effects on its own, let alone induce nausea. However, I'm prone against nausea from psychedelics.

ebola
 
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