Oysters instead of B12 supplements, for a raw food vegan diet?

[ForEverAfter]

I have no problems with growing food in soil. The unavoidable "harm" that you're pushing at is not what I'm trying to avoid. I'm trying to avoid the avoidable harm. If harming some worms or small insects (that I seriously doubt are sentient anyway) is a reality of growing and harvesting my own food, then so be it. I'm not sure if you've read the entire thread, but some of the stuff you're saying doesn't even pertain to me and what I'm doing. Bacteria and fungi, for example. You might as well argue that eating vegetables is causing "harm" to vegetables. I've been pretty clear about my intentions. If you're going to discuss this with me, I don't want to have to repeat myself. Please do me the courtesy of reading the thread.

Also, your tone is a little patronizing.

If you can put forth a coherent argument detailing how growing food in the soil is going to cause harm to sentient animals, please do. Otherwise, you don't really have much of a point it seems. (No offence.)

I really wish it were possible by a few simple actions to completely erase any further "karmic foot print" in this world.

That's just a cop out, so you don't have to try.

It's certainly not simple, but it's not impossible.

I never said it was simple. (I said the opposite.)

 

[Giygas]

If I upset or offended you in some way with my posts or comments, I'm sorry. That was not my intention.
I feel that I made an effort to describe my point of view and how it relates to yours, however I certainly understand if you disagree.

 

[ForEverAfter]

You didn't upset me or offend me.

I assumed that the patronizing tone was accidental.

 

[brink]

You're an oyster.

More of a clam, from what I'm told.

A quick check on wiki for nori suggests that it isn't a bioavailable source of b12. I don't have an opinion one way or the other, but I sometimes eat the stuff by itself or baked on pizza. No shortage of Asian markets nearby..

 

[ForEverAfter]

A quick check on wiki for nori suggests that it isn't a bioavailable source of b12.

Thanks, I will look into that.

 

[Journyman16]

Holy shit, I didn't read the use-by date on the mussels. They are alive, but they expire today. So, I guess I'm going to be eating 30 of them for dinner... Oh, well. That should catch me up on my B12, since I haven't consumed any for two weeks.

You can keep mussels alive in the shell for over a week if you store them in hessian bags that are kept wet. Note it the bags are in a container you probably want to change the water every couple of days. If you can salt the water, even better but not necessary. Needs to be natural fibre, not those plastic sacks.

And for those who don't want to 'hurt' their food, probably best not to know that plants scream when you go to cut them or pull them up. And that's BEFORE you actually cut. Sensitive little buggers are plants... :D

 

[bit_pattern]

More of a clam, from what I'm told.

Not sentient

 

[Felonious Monk]

Did you get your levels checked? While I'd be tempted to agree with Foreigner's comment about "ideological non-sense," your GI issues sound a lot like mine, so I'm curious how things worked out for you.

And seeds are ok for you? It's just gluten that's the problem?

 

[lazylazyjoe]

This would have been a good thread over in the P&S forum.


I never understood the concept of combining philosophy with diet. I never really met any vegans until I went to a Rainbow Gathering. They take their diets seriously to the point of ridiculousness. Most won't even use a grill if meat has been cooked on it.

For me, most of the time I'm happy just to have food. There have been times when I literally had to eat out of the trash to survive. I have gone months without eating meat. But I will also eat meat on occasion. Food is survival, not a philosophic statement.

BTW, I have taken over 40mg of b12(yes MG) at once, so you can never take too much.

 

[Erikmen]

If I upset or offended you in some way with my posts or comments, I'm sorry. That was not my intention.
I feel that I made an effort to describe my point of view and how it relates to yours, however I certainly understand if you disagree.

Truly polite response one must admit!

 

[Erikmen]

This would have been a good thread over in the P&S forum.


I never understood the concept of combining philosophy with diet. I never really met any vegans until I went to a Rainbow Gathering. They take their diets seriously to the point of ridiculousness. Most won't even use a grill if meat has been cooked on it.

For me, most of the time I'm happy just to have food. There have been times when I literally had to eat out of the trash to survive. I have gone months without eating meat. But I will also eat meat on occasion. Food is survival, not a philosophic statement.

BTW, I have taken over 40mg of b12(yes MG) at once, so you can never take too much.

I agree with you totally!!

 

[ForEverAfter]

I never understood the concept of combining philosophy with diet.

I don't understand how you can separate philosophy and diet. Diet (in some form or another) plays a part in practically every religion known to man. There are undeniable philosophical implications - aren't there? - when a sentient species, that lives by a moral code, consumes another sentient species out of convenience.

I never really met any vegans until I went to a Rainbow Gathering. They take their diets seriously to the point of ridiculousness. Most won't even use a grill if meat has been cooked on it.

So Hinduism is ridiculous, because they apply the same standard to the consumption/preparation of beef?
Most people would refuse to eat a meal prepared on a grill if they know human meat has been cooked on it.
Are they ridiculous, too?

For me, most of the time I'm happy just to have food. There have been times when I literally had to eat out of the trash to survive. I have gone months without eating meat. But I will also eat meat on occasion.

Nobody is talking about starving themselves or causing self-harm in the name of dietary fundamentalism. It's unfortunate that you've had to eat out of the trash to survive, but that doesn't have any relevance here.

Unlike animals, human beings don't exist in the food chain. We don't have predators, nor do we - first world folk - have a lack of fresh produce. Survival is less relevant for people, as it pertains to diet. Most of us, in other words, aren't living on the street. This gives us a choice - a philosophical dilemma - do we, given the choice, continue to eat meat?

If you take the choice away, people - for the purposes of this discussion - become animals... and philosophy is trumped by survival.

Generally, however...

Food is survival, not a philosophic statement.

...survival and philosophy aren't mutually exclusive.

Did you get your levels checked?

No, I relapsed at the 2 month mark. I'm gearing up for another attempt. I can't comfortably afford to do the extreme diet that I was attempting, at this point in my life, so I'm going to tone it down a bit. Realistically, it will be a long time before I achieve and maintain the sort of lifestyle/diet that I'm working towards. I'm not very happy, having only made it to 2 months. But I was doing all drugs/alcohol/tobacco too. In the end, it was too much for me. Should be easier, the second time around, though.

Seeds are fine. Gluten consistently causes severe GI problems.

 

[nuttynutskin]

Sounds like you have an eating disorder honestly, and like it's already been said eating shellfish isn't vegan, it's pescetarian. Really don't understand your need to hold on to your flawed definition.

 

[tiggerific]

I have no issues with food nor the taking of a life to feed myself just as animals in the animal kingdom do. however I thought I would post these links for you so you can read some more on the subject. I wonder if you will freeze food such as cooked mussels in daily portions and you can them take out and eat them and then you would only once a week for example be cooking them?
Anyway here are the links, http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/b12.php http://hatchery.hpl.umces.edu/index.php/oysters/oysters-life-cycle/ http://www.foodtimeline.org/foodlobster.html#oysters oyster were classed as a poor persons food as they were cheap and plentiful. if you are willing to eat an animal to help boost your b12 levels then a combination of different shellfish might be a better option. Sea weed also contains b12 so if you are near the sea pick some up, it can be dried for long term storage. Since you will also be growing your own food then I would suggest using manure, this adds b12 to your plants and you might find you no longer have to eat shellfish as a supplement. keep getting regular tests so you know how your diet is affecting you and what you then have to change.

 

[ForEverAfter]

eating shellfish isn't vegan, it's pescetarian

Pescetarian is a term for people who eat seafood, in general.
There is no term for vegans who eat shellfish.

Really don't understand your need to hold on to your flawed definition.

I don't need to hold on to anything.
I referred to myself as a vegan who eats shellfish.
If I was a pescetarian, I would have just said so.

I don't see the flaw in anything I said.
I've explained myself in great detail.
This is getting tiresome.

I don't know why people are objecting so much to my use of the word vegan.
It may not be an ideal term, but - like I said - there is no ideal term.

If I knew that everyone would go on about it like this, I would have said something else.
It's just a word... and I explained how my diet varied from traditional veganism...

If you order a BLT, without the lettuce, your waiter might object and say, "That's not a BLT!"
And, while he/she would be technically right, it seems like a bit of a petty distinction to me.
(Unless, of course, there's a Bacon and Tomato sandwich on the menu.)

I used the word vegan in a slightly broader context than usual.
Quick, call the police: I must be stopped!

...

Thanks for the links, Tigger.

 

[socko]

Sounds like you have an eating disorder honestly, and like it's already been said eating shellfish isn't vegan, it's pescetarian. Really don't understand your need to hold on to your flawed definition.

He's just not a strict, fundamentalist vegan. Nothing wrong with that. None of the Vegan Police who are complaining on here can do anything about it.

 

[ForEverAfter]

Be careful what you say, dude.

They know where you live and they'll beat you to death with a carrot.

 

[nuttynutskin]

There is no term for vegans who eat shellfish.

You're right actually, because VEGANS DON'T EAT SHELLFISH.

I've explained myself in great detail.

And yet you're still incorrect.

I don't know why people are objecting so much to my use of the word vegan.

BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT VEGAN!!! I don't think anyone cares what you eat but don't claim to be something you're not. It would be like someone claiming to be a Muslim and asking for a good recipe for pork chops or baked ham.

If you order a BLT, without the lettuce, your waiter might object and say, "That's not a BLT!"
And, while he/she would be technically right, it seems like a bit of a petty distinction to me.

Except for the fact the very definition of a vegan means you don't eat ANY MEAT. That's not exactly a petty distinction.

I used the word vegan in a slightly broader context than usual.

No, you used it incorrectly.

He's just not a strict, fundamentalist vegan. Nothing wrong with that. None of the Vegan Police who are complaining on here can do anything about it.

By that logic I could eat beef and still consider myself a vegan, just a non-fundamentalist one. Oh and btw, I'm not a vegetarian at all. I eat plenty of meat and dairy and try to keep a healthy well balanced diet for the most part. The OP could probably stand to do the same but he seems more intent to base his diet on some ill conceived notion of combining some weird philosophy and incorrect terminology to dictate his unhealthy eating patterns.

 

[ForEverAfter]

I said I was a vegan (which I was, when I started the thread) and I was planning on eating shellfish.
I never said I would remain a vegan and I never said veganism included meat.
I didn't misuse any terms, whatsoever.

You need to pick your battles better, dude.
This is just weird.
Especially since you aren't vegan.
I mean, even if I did use a word incorrectly, which I didn't, why do you care so much?

You sound like an anal English teacher.

I even said in my first post, "(Although technically not vegan, oysters aren't sentient.)"
Never, at any point during this thread, did I use the term incorrectly.

I figure you misinterpreted this:

you don't want to hurt animals. That's the main reason people become vegan. What if - for the sake of argument - there's an animal that cannot be hurt? What is the difference between consuming that animal and consuming a vegetable? Neither act causes animals to suffer. Assuming that you're vegan for the sake of the animals, consuming non-sentient "animals" is still "vegan". Isn't it?

Even though I put the word "vegan" in inverted commas, and contextualized my statement - very clearly.

Or maybe it was this:

I don't believe that an animal without a brain can suffer. So, I don't understand - from a purely logical perspective - why all vegan people don't consume molluscs. It's impossible to get B12 naturally in our diet, so the oyster clause makes a lot of sense to me. I don't want to consume pills with B12 in them. I'd rather consume fresh natural produce with B12.

Even though I didn't say veganism includes the consumption of meat... I said that I don't understand why vegans - if they eat meat to avoid inflicting pain on animals - don't eat molluscs, since they cannot feel pain.

I was very clear.
This was in October last year.
You're not only being insanely pedantic. You're also wrong.

I never said I was vegan and that I ate shellfish.
I said I was vegan and I was planning on eating shellfish and I didn't (still don't) see the issue, in terms of causing harm to animals.

Please point out, specifically, when I said I was vegan and I ate shellfish.
Or, kindly, stop harassing me like a grammar Nazi.

Find something better to do with your time, perhaps?

 

[nuttynutskin]

Unless my eyes deceive me the title of the thread is "Oysters instead of B12 supplements, for a raw food vegan diet?", plus you've pretty much argued how you were doing a vegan diet throughout the whole entire thread. That's the only main reason you received such slack. But whatever, instead of eating a healthy well-balanced diet like a normal person would go on thinking your asinine diet is somehow ideologically elite and going to save the planet while you deprive your body of vital nutrients.