OXYCONTIN 20s I've done much research before making this post, so plz dont UTSFE me!!

[shamone]

Hello People - havent been on in a while - so long in fact that some of you may well not know who I am, or remember me - been very busy with work, and have been trying to stay away from all things drugs for a little while!!

Firstly, sorry mods if this is in the wrong place, and feel free to move it - I was thinking about putting it in the heroin thread, but obviously this isnt actually about heroin per se, so just put it here!!

My question is this...I have a bit of an opiate tolerance (occasionally smoke a bit of the naughty B 8( !) However have recently come across a source locally of NAPP brand oxycontin 20's (Prolonged release). Now I have done tonnes of research to try and find the answer to this question, but cant find the answer anywhere! I want to know, how many of these 20's will I need to take to get a decent buzz??

Now after doing tonnes of research I know ALL about the different ROA's, the need to destroy the time release mechanism in order to get the most out of it; how crushing and snorting gives a quicker onset and a rush, but a shorter lasting high, but parachuting it (bombing it in a rizla / TP) gives a longer lasting high etc etc, so I know how to go about taking them (I have never taken OC;s before incase you hadnt guessed!!) I JUST WANT TO KNOW HOW MANY mg WILL I NEED TO GET A BUZZ IF I HAVE A BIT OF A TOLERANCE TO THE DEVILS DRUG?!)

The main reason I am asking is because, when smoking B, you are getting the dose gradually (say you buy a 0.1 and you smoke it over half an hour, thats 100mg over half an hour (and thats not 100mg of pure heroin, as its obviously not 100% pure heroin (although the stuff I can get now is rather strong) and when smoking it theres pretty much no chance of doing too much, as you will nod out before you can smoke too much....!) However if I was to rail some oxy, it will be hitting me all at once, so I dont want to over do it...(This is actually a bit of a HR question hey, thats what this site is all about isnt it?!

My Plan was to snort some, and then bomb some, so I got the initial buzz and intense (ish) hit, and then the swallowed dose would keep the high lasting for lonnger (obviously swallowed dose crushed first!!) I JUST NEED TO KNOW HOW MUCH SHOULD I START OFF WITH?! I am sure I could handle sniffing / swallowing (parachuting / bombing) one 20, but I have a feeling with a tollerance I should need more for a decent buzz?? What do you guys think??

Initially when I heard about the source I was intending to smoke them, and I have heard / seen lots of documentaries where people are smoking their oxys, however after my extensive research (on various forums and sites) to find the answer to my question...I have seen people actually get angry at people for even suggesting smoking oxy as an acceptable ROA!! So I guess thats a no no!!

Anyway, any help would be great, and thanks in advance for anyone and everyone who responds with constructive answers (I apologise if anything I have said here has offended anyone, I just really dont get why people respond with derogatory replies to posts, when people are just looking for answers, especially when it comes down to Harm Reduction!!

Sorry for the essay, but I just wanted to make sure I asked everything I needed to, and expressed how much research I have done before posting on here, as I know a lot of people dont even bother to use the FSE!! But I think my question is more of an individual one, which is why I havent been able to find the answer!!

Thanks again in advance!!

Much love

Shamone!

 

[Sammy G]

Impossible to say. How much heroin are you smoking at one sitting? When you say a 'decent buzz', do you mean semi-comatose, pleasantly floaty or lightly nodding? Then there's the heroin purity issue, which you've already mentioned.

To go out on a limb, I'd suggest that with tolerance you should see how 60mg grabs you. It's definitely not enough to send you over, but it's enough that the experience won't be underwhelming. And you can always add more if that doesn't get you where you like.

Mmmmmmm, oxy. Must buy some soon! Enjoy.

 

[shamone]

Awesome, thanks for the reply!!

Just out of interest, what ROA are you using??

And is it true that these oc 20;s cant be smoked...its just so weird that from all the docs I have watched from the USA, there are so many people who smoke their OC's on foil, running it just like you would with the B. Is it maybe because they are smoking 80's so there is less filler, whereas the 20's will have more fillers, thus it being a waste to smoke them?? I have even heard some people angrily post that heat destroys oxy...so I am really confused on this one, as I have watched countless people on documetaries smoking them and lookig like they got a great hit, but then people on forums are saying the exact opposite!!

Actually, In fact, I just thought, I only wanted to smoke it because thats how im used to taking opiates, but I really wanna feel the rush of it all hitting at once, which you dont get from smoking!!

 

[Shambles]

They can be smoked but obviously it's horrible for your lungs and lawdy knows what happens to it all when it's burnt and all that excess crap is inhaled. As Sammy says, there's really no simple answer cos we have no idea how much of a habit you have or what purity the gear you use is so it would only ever be (not especially) educated guesswork at best.

As with anything really the sensible option would be to start with a small amount and work up till you get where you want to be. Obviously that doesn't work so well if you're in a massive hurry but it is still the best option. I don't think oxy is especially strong (imo, ime, ymmv, etc, etc) and have always seemed to need what seems to be quite a lot given lack of major tolerance. 60mg doesn't seem outrageous to me - certainly not if there is tolerance involved - but I would suggest starting with maybe just sniffing a 20 and see how you feel. You should be able to judge from that whether you're waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off and probably need the other two or are actually kinda buzzy and one would do the trick.

Be warned, they are very moreish indeed. I absolutely rattle through 'em when I have any and that's with only a fairly minor codeine tolerance (albeit with extensive prior history of opi addiction). I wouldn't recommend smoking at all but for finding your sweetspot I'd suggest sniffing is perhaps a good option given time release. Oral (or rectal) dosing does have higher BA but the time release thing can make it a bit harder to be sure whether you're at full effect or still got more on the way until you have a better idea of what a good dose for you is.

 

[shamone]

Thanks for the awesome replies guys!! Not sure if you remember me - it was a while ago, but good to hear from you shambles!!

 

[shamone]

Shambles, when you took the 60mg, did you snort it or eat it whole?? I am sure you snorted it, but was just wondering why you didnt really feel much, and eating them whole obviously doesnt give a buzz!

 

[shamone]

And as oxy is basically legal heroin (almost, almost...!!) wouldnt 60mg oxy be the eqyauivalent to 60mg of pure heroin??

 

[Sammy G]

And as oxy is basically legal heroin (almost, almost...!!) wouldnt 60mg oxy be the eqyauivalent to 60mg of pure heroin??

Nah. Not at all.

I think oxy's just a little stronger than morphine. Definitely not heroin territory.

 

[Shambles]

^ I'd pretty much agree. I'd rate oxy as fairly similar in potency mg for mg to morphine - I'd say just a bit stronger per mg than morphine is but in the same ballpark for sure (that is in me anyway - YMMV as ever).

Shambles, when you took the 60mg, did you snort it or eat it whole?? I am sure you snorted it, but was just wondering why you didnt really feel much, and eating them whole obviously doesnt give a buzz!

I mostly tended to snort oxy for no good reason whatsoever other than it feels more "druggy" to sniff a thing than to eat it. It really is as petty as that cos I know damn well the BA is a bit higher taken orally. Probably also because it does kick in quicker and give a bit of a rush that's perhaps not quite as present with oral dosing. After all those years of injecting I do tend to be rather fond of being hit hard and fast (not by people or hard (or sharp) objects though).

I was getting quite a lot of them fairly regularly for a while (and comparatively cheaply too) so was more or less using round the clock when I had them. Wasn't really taking a specific dose to get a specific effect so much as just getting fukked and staying fukked until they ran out. I was surprised at how much weaker they seemed compared with all the hype I've read for years - was expecting a lot more kick than I got. They are a very nice opioid (speedy and euphoric - just what I like in an opi) but after years of reading people talking about sniffing 10mg and being higher than they've ever been I was a bit disappointed. I guess I should've been thinking more about those people talking of extended use who had proper habits and needing a shitload to avoid clucking cos despite my low tolerance I do think that extensive history of heavy abuse makes a difference somehow. I seem to need quite a lot of most opies to get a decent effect considering I don't actually use them very often these days.

By no means take any of this to mean they are a "weak" opioid cos they're obviously not, but I do think there's often a lot of expectation given relative rarity over here and whilst they are rather lushy they are not especially potent compared with heroin (at least heroin of reasonable quality).

 

[shamone]

Thanks for the detailed info man, but what i meant in comparison was that when you get a bag of H, in the UK anyway, the level of purity will probably be under 50%, with 50% almost being un heard of, especially because the H we get here is always cut with caffiene amongst other things, to make it run on foil, and be smokeable!! so what i really meant was when you consider the purity of the H, compared to the purity of the oxy, which is obviously exactly the strength of the pill...I hope that makes sense - i know what i mean anyway!!

Another thing, when you said you did them for days on end, until they ran out, did a physical addiction not develop?? And if so how bad were the w/d's??

Shamone!

 

[shamone]

another thing I just thought of was, as many of us know the best way to get a quicker effect from something like diazepam, the sublingual route is generally seen as the way to go...would this apply to oxy?? instead of crushing and swallowing, would crushing and then letting it dissolve under the tongue be a ROA that would cause a quicker onset??

 

[Shambles]

Yeah, SL should speed onset a bit I would think - probably not by huge amounts though given time release. They're a bit big to be crushing and holding all that under your tongue but crushed and parachuted should speed up the onset some. Plugging is also very effective and will most likely give the biggest bang for your buck. Oxy had good BA by all ROA afaik so you get more or less what you take compared to something like morphine which has very low BA orally (which I didn't take into account when comparing potency - oopsies ). I didn't find there to be enormous variation in effects with snorting, eating (chewed or swallowed whole - there is difference in onset but pretty much levelled out the same with whole ones lasting a bit longer as you'd perhaps expect given the contin bit). I wouldn't overthink it if I were you - pick you're fave ROA and go with that.

I'd say purity of UK heroin would be well under 50% - nearer 20-30% for reasonable quality and maybe 40-50% if you get very lucky. People tend to greatly overestimate the purity of gear. I've had stuff come back (from police seizure and subsequent testing) at a whole 7% and people were still buying it. Were complaining about it but I wouldn't say it was less than a fifth the potency of average gear. I really wouldn't be able to give a very accurate idea of how oxy compares to heroin assuming both were pure - that info may be available online somewhere if you have a search about but unless you know for sure the purity of your heroin it's not gonna be a very useful figure anyway really.

Oral BA of morphine is 20-40% according to the first site Google show up when asked nicely. I'm pretty sure I've seen lower estimates too but may be thinking of something else so will go with that. Split the difference and say 30% so using the approximate correlation of potency (BA aside) of morphine and oxy that would... not be of huge help without also knowing equivalent figures for heroin (just struck me as brain was clunking and getting nowhere fast - I used to be really good at mental arithmetic would you believe... barely believe it myself nowadays 8)). If you really really want to try to work out what a given amount of oxy equates to in heroin I'm afraid I may just leave it to yourself or others to work out. Seems a bit of a wild goose chase given there's so much variability in heroin purity but would be handy to have a rough idea for sure. Will let somebody else do the math(s) though I think. I really must take up Sudoko or summat...

Physical addiction didn't really develop as such (I was using a variety of opies at the time but not every day - more binging that habitual) but I did get w/d symptoms. Got really quite nasty ones too. I suspect this may have been worsened by my previous stints with actual opi addiction - similar to how tolerance never quite seems to reset completely w/d seem to start earlier and feel nastier when dabbling after a previous addiction. If you have a fair few and will be using for an extended period I'd suggest tapering when party time is drawing to an end. My use rocketed when I had plenty around - they are very moreish indeed as mentioned - and I went from being perfectly happy with 40-60mg the first time I used it to getting through 400-500mg per day when I had a lot to hand. Was only for a few days cos I had to taper but it went from the lower amount to the high amount within a matter of a few days at most. I did rather get a taste for 'em. It may just be my patterns of use but they are unusually moreish even by opioid standards (imo, ime, ymmv, etc, etc)

Pee Ess: I do indeed remember the name - welcome back

 

[Sprout]

Let's say you buy 100mg of UK street 'Heroin'. Assuming 30% purity, you have 30mg of pure Diamorphine. Data for vaped BA is wildly inconsistent, but average estimates are around 50%, so we'll use that. 30mg H X 0.5 = 15mg reaching the brain when smoking 0.1g.
15mg IV H = 37.5mg Morphine (taking an average of 2-3x potency) when IV'd.
Morphine oral BA = ~ 30%, 37.5 X 3.33 = 125mg oral Morphine.
Oxy is around 1.2-1.5x more potent than Morphine. 125mg Morphine = ~83.5-100mg of Oxy, assuming oral dosing.
Now to take into account incomplete cross-tolerance, which we will assume to be 40%: (83.5/100) X 40 = 33.4
83.5 - 33.4 = 50.1mg.

(100/100) X 40 = 40.
100 - 40 = 60mg.

These figures should not be taken as concrete information, however: my calculations equate 50-60mg of oral Oxycodone to equal 100mg of street 'Heroin'. If you smoke 200mg, multiply 50-60mg X 2, 300mg - multiply by 3, etc.

 

[shamone]

Loving that post SOS. I only smoke H, so have only taken those figures into account for my personal information. As you say, because of wildly differing purity of street H the figures cant be used as gospel, but they are a great basemark to work from.

I ended up snorting about 50 mg of oxy, which I know has less BA, and some consider a waste, but I wanted the instant hit, and I had enough to top up with lines due to the lesser duration. I also swallowed some (a fair bit less than I snorted) in a rizla, to keep a buzz going for longer (thought a mix would be a good way to keep the enjoyment going for longer) but I had eaten quite a lot today, and heard its best to eat them on an empty stomach (onbiously crushed before swallowing), so didnt want to waste too much because of this, but it seemed to have had an effect, as I have had a buzz going for hours now!! Whoever said they are moreish were certainly not lying...they are a mildly less moreish version of crack of the opiate world - may have been said before, but I would call them crack-piates!!

Thanks for all the replies guys...all been very helpful - thats why this forum is generally the best one, its the only one I am a member of, because whenevr I do research and end up on any of the 'others' I see so many people just laying into one another as they have nothing better to do...probably because they have run out of what they are trying to talk about...

PS - whoever has ever said you can smoke OC 20's are not right in the head (regardless of all the advise against it, i tried to smoke a very small amount of the powder that i crushed up on some foil. It doesnt run; the smoke tastes like GARBAGE, (and that was with the coating taken off), and you can tell it is TERRIBLE for your lungs. If I want to smoke opiates, I will just smoke B - - - I will NOT be smoking any Crack-piates thats for sure (the non smokability of the OC's is only non-crack part of them - the fact they're NOT for smoking!! Plus of course the effect is the polar opposite...!)

SHAMONE!!!

 

[shamone]

Also, just a quick one, whats the best way to snort these oxys?? they are the OC's so can be easily crushed into a fine powder, but was wondering, should I sniff it in the manner where you get no drip, or does that not matter, because i feel like if i am getting a drip and then swallowing it, I am not getting the full amount of the oxy intranasally? (I have been feeling very nice all day with the way i have been doing it, so am obviously getting most of it absorbed, but just dont wanna waste any of this precious stuff!!)

(and by the way, I have snorted MANY different things before!!, so i know how to snort stuff in general, but with this I just wanna get the most out of it??)

SO what do people who have done it before think - should it be a lot of tiny lines spaced out over a minute or so, or one big line? (im guessing the little but often route would create less of a drip??)

also, some people say when snorting things, to put a TINY drop of water on the powder...would that be a good idea, or would it just turn the powder gooey?? or maybe moisten the inside of my nostrils before snorting instead?? Never tried this method when snorting anything, but for some reason it makes me think the more moisture in my nostril - the more chance of more of a drip (or is it the opposite - the moisture in my nostril will cause it to absorb more quickly, so less of a drip??))

CANT BELIEVE I AM ASKING ADVICE ON HOW TO SNORT ANYTHING AFTER MY YEARS OF SNORTING ANYTHING SNORTABLE!!

SHAMONE

 

[brimz]

Awesome, thanks for the reply!!

Just out of interest, what ROA are you using??

And is it true that these oc 20;s cant be smoked...its just so weird that from all the docs I have watched from the USA, there are so many people who smoke their OC's on foil, running it just like you would with the B. Is it maybe because they are smoking 80's so there is less filler, whereas the 20's will have more fillers, thus it being a waste to smoke them?? I have even heard some people angrily post that heat destroys oxy...so I am really confused on this one, as I have watched countless people on documetaries smoking them and lookig like they got a great hit, but then people on forums are saying the exact opposite!!

Actually, In fact, I just thought, I only wanted to smoke it because thats how im used to taking opiates, but I really wanna feel the rush of it all hitting at once, which you dont get from smoking!!

Napp oc80s can be smoked in a glass pipe n actually are very effective but Fukin ell sum folk pay a score or double for one £8 top IMO

I just like the ones that stop the pain 10mg norms they work 4 me

 

[shamone]

Smoking is not an option for me with these OC 20's tried a bit, and it is shit, and will not be trying it again...snorting some and swallowing some in a rizla is the way forward.

I REALLY want an answer to my last question i posted, which was:

Also, just a quick one, whats the best way to snort these oxys?? they are the OC's so can be easily crushed into a fine powder, but was wondering, should I sniff it in the manner where you get no drip, or does that not matter, because i feel like if i am getting a drip and then swallowing it, I am not getting the full amount of the oxy intranasally? (I have been feeling very nice all day with the way i have been doing it, so am obviously getting most of it absorbed, but just dont wanna waste any of this precious stuff!!)

(and by the way, I have snorted MANY different things before!!, so i know how to snort stuff in general, but with this I just wanna get the most out of it??)

SO what do people who have done it before think - should it be a lot of tiny lines spaced out over a minute or so, or one big line? (im guessing the little but often route would create less of a drip??)

also, some people say when snorting things, to put a TINY drop of water on the powder...would that be a good idea, or would it just turn the powder gooey?? or maybe moisten the inside of my nostrils before snorting instead?? Never tried this method when snorting anything, but for some reason it makes me think the more moisture in my nostril - the more chance of more of a drip (or is it the opposite - the moisture in my nostril will cause it to absorb more quickly, so less of a drip??))

CANT BELIEVE I AM ASKING ADVICE ON HOW TO SNORT ANYTHING AFTER MY YEARS OF SNORTING ANYTHING SNORTABLE!!

 

[Sprout]

I snort most things via dissolving them in 0.3ml of water in a pipette and squirting the solution up both nostrils. Increases surface area for absorption, reduces the amount that's lost in nasal mucosa and reduces the burn massively. Tilt your head back slightly, very slightly inhale as you slowly squirt the liquid. If you squirt too quickly or inhale too sharply the liquid goes straight to the back of your throat.
Snorting pills is damaging to the nose so 'waterlining' will help, slightly.
With Oxy, the drip isn't a problem as Oxy is absorbed very well orally so I wouldn't worry, you won't be losing drugs like you are with a coke drip.