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Opioids Oxycodone overdose - That easy?

Where can one obtain Narcan without having the luxury of a municipality that gives a shit about its dope fiends? Id love to have a bottle or two around but unfortunately harm reduction isnt really that big of an issue with the powers that be around here.
 
It's not a controlled substance, so it really shouldn't be too hard to get your hands on; I'd get more specific, but there's the whole no sourcing rule, which really should not apply in this case. If you end up getting some, read up on it- it has a very short half-life, so in many scenario's you'll have to hit the person once, and then hit them again later as they start to drift off again; I'd still reccomend trying to get certified legally if possible.

Oh, and there exists something similar for benzos, called Flumazenil, but I don't recommend you walk around with that, as it is a great deal trickier, and riskier to administer; if the person is physically dependent on benzos at the time of their overdose and you hit them with Flumazenil, you can reasonably expect them to have a seizure. I personally keep some on hand but I have yet to use it and would only do so in an extremely unlikely and specific scenario.
 
I think cold turkey was the only way I was able to successfully quit heroin, because I need didn't want to string it out where I could decide to say fuck it and abort the sobriety mission.

I went through misery, and then mental misery, and then felt proud I accomplished it, but I don't think my brain fully recovered at least from a feeling hopelessness for about 6 months and then I started to feel a little bit refreshed and got some motivation to to live life, and do things. I think the depression was the worst, because it lasted for so long, and I felt like a negative zombie person that despised everything. Must have seriously messed up chemical production in my brain to feel like that. I would think sometimes that I was going to get excited about something, and then I would not see the point of being excited in anything.
 
That's incredibly fucked up. I once tried to show some friends of mine a good time by giving them each 2mg of suboxone. They didn't OD, but they got way to high, and the whole thing freaked the hell out of me, I was trying to talk them through it on the phone telling them not to drink or take any Xanax etc.. The next day I couldn't get in touch with them for about ten hours, and I was nearly shitting my pants. It turned out their phones were not on and that they were perfectly okay. I deserved that ten hours of paranoia, giving friends opioids/opiates is not a very friendly thing to do if they've never used them before. I'll never make that mistake again.

Holy shit dude I did th esame thing. I give someone a half pill and tell them just take a litle chunk off...like 1/4th at MOST@@ AT MOST@@. Well he's like 'yo i wanted to get fucked up so i just did the whole thing' and he was like trippin out.. callin me askin when its gonna end, like he said he was in and ot of nodding and itchin and throwin up all night. i felt so bad and scared yo..i was like thats the LAST time i ever ever do something like that
 
I think cold turkey was the only way I was able to successfully quit heroin, because I need didn't want to string it out where I could decide to say fuck it and abort the sobriety mission.

I went through misery, and then mental misery, and then felt proud I accomplished it, but I don't think my brain fully recovered at least from a feeling hopelessness for about 6 months and then I started to feel a little bit refreshed and got some motivation to to live life, and do things. I think the depression was the worst, because it lasted for so long, and I felt like a negative zombie person that despised everything. Must have seriously messed up chemical production in my brain to feel like that. I would think sometimes that I was going to get excited about something, and then I would not see the point of being excited in anything.

dkmonk, it seems as if you have been through quite a bit. I for one cannot imagine going through bad opiate WD's, from what I hear. I would agree that the depression would certainly be the worst part of the experience. Depression takes all color out of life and can be much worse than physical pain. How long have you been sober for? Have you gotten back to normal?
 
It's not a controlled substance, so it really shouldn't be too hard to get your hands on; I'd get more specific, but there's the whole no sourcing rule, which really should not apply in this case. If you end up getting some, read up on it- it has a very short half-life, so in many scenario's you'll have to hit the person once, and then hit them again later as they start to drift off again; I'd still reccomend trying to get certified legally if possible.

Oh, and there exists something similar for benzos, called Flumazenil, but I don't recommend you walk around with that, as it is a great deal trickier, and riskier to administer; if the person is physically dependent on benzos at the time of their overdose and you hit them with Flumazenil, you can reasonably expect them to have a seizure. I personally keep some on hand but I have yet to use it and would only do so in an extremely unlikely and specific scenario.

That's very interesting, I have never seen one or heard of anyone getting any of this here in Dallas. This may be because me and my friends do not use heroin (Stick the the pharmaceutical opiates and we don't shoot up) and the people I know who use heroin aren't the "safe" kind of drug user and don't give a fuck about such things. Is there really any need to acquire any of these things if we are not shooting up?
 
I wouldn't call it a "need" in the truest sense of the word, but people do overdose off of pharmaceutical opioids, albeit less frequently than they do off heroin, so I would say if you can get the Narcan, go for it- always be prepared, right?

I've actually used it on a complete stranger once, came into a house party and found her on a couch turning blue with the needle on the floor, surrounded by about 4 people, 2 of them real sedated themselves and the other two going hysterical trying to hide all the drugs before calling the cops, with no one really doing anything; I just hit her with it and it brought her back, was lucky I got there when I did. You might run into a similar situation with the people you know who IV dope and don't give a fuck, so if it doesn't violate any laws where you are and isn't difficult/expensive to get, why not?

The Flumazenil is different; wouldn't really recommend going out of your way to pick it up due to the fact that it's not really "safe" to use in the manner we're talking about here. Benzo overdoses are rarely fatal, and you would run a very real risk of killing the very person you were trying to save; if the person you thought was OD'ing was physically dependent, they could have a fatal seizure, as benzo w/d's can be fatal on their own so I imagine precipitated benzos w/d's would be just as bad, if not worse.

If you were trained/certified/registered to use it, that would be an entirely different story, as it would likely offer you some legal protection if, god forbid, the person had a fatal seizure as a result.

tl;dr- Narcan yes, Flumazenil no
 
Could you go into more detail as to why the person would start WDing when given the Flumazenil? I have heard of similar things happening with subutex/suboxone but I have never understood why, and why they start withdrawing so quickly and intensely.
 
I'm so glad I was smart when I started playing around with different drugs including opiates. First time I tried any drug (except MDMA). My boyfriend would redose and I would just take one when he took one. Which resulted in me taking way too much and being very messed up by the end of the night. If that had happened with opiates ... a dangerous OD for sure ... probably death.
 
all the people that say oh i was od'n and took a shower/friend slapped me/cold air brought me back are really naive REALLY REALLY

there also a difference between going out and nodding ...its really hard to tell whats going on

but if u can walk around,take a shower or whatever u arent od'n ,ur just fucked up and scared ,and u will eventually think this is what stops an od and it IS NOT...

if u od u are unresponsive ..slapping u isnt going to wake u ,water ...or fucking anything but narcan

PLEASE GET UR HEAD OUT OF UR ASS PEOPLE... really upsets me when hearing these things man
 
I've come pretty close to OD on Oxycodone a hand full of times, but it was certainly harder to do than with Opana and it was always due to combining them with too much Xanax. I had a tolerance of course and that's the only reason I'm here to tell the story.

With Oxycodone you'll have to take a good amount and mix it with a benzo or other CNS depressant to achieve an overdoes. Even an opiate naive user would stand a good chance on Oxycodone a lone if they took too much imo. Well, if they like swallowed a handful of pills I could see them maybe ODing, but they would be given ample warning that things were going south and would most likely have time to call for help.

What almost killed me was Opana ER mixed with an unknown amount of Xanax. My friend came over with a bottle full of both, I ate 2mg of Xanax first thing that morning, and he kept passing over a plate with lines of Opana cut out and ready to go. I was working on something at the time for about 7 straight hours, and he and I just kind lost track of how much we were doing. Pretty sure more Xanax was taken over the course of that day but hard to remember.

Anyway, he showed up at 1pm with an unknown number of Opana ER 30mgs, I know he had more than 10. By the time I got him back to his house at 10pm he opened the bottle to discover he only had a few left. He was like "WTF!? We did that much?" and was obviously pretty pissed off. Even knowing how much I'd done I took a couple of lines when offered before driving home.

When I got on the road my eye balls started "bouncing" and I kept having to shake that off to see the road. I managed to make it home, and sat down in my easy chair. I nodded off and came to a couple of hours later, lungs hurt and were full of what I'm guessing was my nose draining into them. I coughed up a bunch of crap and it scared me pretty badly. I tried to stay awake but nodded out again to awake a few hours later with the lungs hurting. I was obviously not breathing when I would nod off, this was close as I've come to dying on opiates and it scared me good.

So, as long as naive users don't try to keep pace with tolerant users, and as long as you make sure to be careful with what you're mixing with them its hard to OD on Oxycodone a lone imho. I am not a doctor however, and I'm assuming the ROA isn't IV as I have no experience with that.

If you're turning on newbies keep the above in mind for sure. I've had naive users puke off small lines of roxi (super small, probably in the sub-3mg range (I'm greedy ;)). One guy in particular did this several times. I used to get a kick out of him as he'd get blazed off a toke or two and would only need a super small line of oxy to be good for an entire night. Great guy to hang around, he didn't put a dent in my stash and he never bothered me for anything like my usual party friends. I always was careful with what I gave him though! Even after knowing it took a small amount for him and attempting to dose him under the "puke threshold" he still did it two or three times til we eventually figured out the right amount for him.
 
I believe since Flumazenil is a strong antagonist at the benzodiazepine receptor binding sites in the GABA system it causes this through competitive inhibition (a process I don't know well enough to be able to explain accurately), but the end result is that it rapidly removes whatever benzos were originally present at the binding sites and occupies that location itself, making it very difficult for subsequent doses of benzos to be effective. Now, since benzo w/d can be fatal (often through seizures), this is dangerous to do, and not advised.'

I'm not entirely sure why subutex would cause anything resembling this; bupe has a high enough binding affinity to essentially hit the receptor sites and blockade them for a good while, but it shouldn't cause precipitated withdrawals.

Now, suboxone has narcan in it, so if it were administered via an ROA that caused enough Narcan to cross the BBB, it would cause displacement via a similar mechanism of action, with one vitally important difference. Precipitated withdrawals, or any opioid withdrawals, as a general rule do not kill people; to the best of my knowledge, the only two common recreational drugs to posses life threatening w/d are benzos and alcohol.

In short, if someone is nodding way too hard on opis and you hit them with Narcan, they're going to feel like shit and possibly get pissed at you, but that's usually the extent of it/
However, with benzos and Flumenazil, that person could begin seizing up almost the moment you hit them if they are dependent+/predisposed, and that can end in death if , so its a very risky gamble

You are right when you say alcohol and benzo's are the only two "killer withdrawals". An annoying, and common misconception is that you can die from opiate withdrawals (or any other drug). Of course this rule only applies to healthy individuals. There can be other preexisting problems that, when combined with WD, can cause death.

Something I am very curious about: Theoretically, wouldn't it be better to precipitate WD's in the manner you mentioned? I understand that benzo withdrawals can cause death, but if you were under medical supervision couldn't this act as a faster, and ultimately easier withdrawal process? Or am I missing something? I know that people can experience significant discomfort from benzo withdrawals for months, sometimes years. I for one would take a fast track if it were viable.

This theory is especially relevant to opiate withdrawal. Like I said before, I think, but I am not sure, that IV subutex/suboxone can precipitate WD's instantly if you are not already withdrawing from opiates (or is it after you start withdrawing?). In any case, I feel as though it would be preferable to have more intense, but significantly shorter withdrawal periods. This would also probably help with relapse. Also, since opiate WD is not fatal, there wouldn't be too much of a risk.
 
HeadphonesandLSD: You said that you "have come close to oxycodone OD a handful of time", can you elaborate? Were you just on oxy? How do you know how close you were? That was certainly an interesting story... that would scare the fuck out of me if I woke up after nodding off with my lungs hurting that bad. It's weird that they hurt when they become seriously depressed. Of course you couldn't have been "not breathing" for the whole time you were out. I wonder how that works. Do you switch from shallow breathing to no breathing at all? Obviously you can't say for sure because you were asleep lol but I am still curious non the less!
 
U.S.A. is fucked up when it comes to their prescription drug abuse/deaths. How retarded can you be? I blame the Mexicans/Floridians.

37485 people nationwide died during 2011, due to overdoses, BUT, I can't find a statistic that tells me how many OD's were attributed to poly-drug use...
The main drugs responsible were the following:
OxyContin, Vicodin, Xanax and Soma.
 
Bronson, you wont find anything on poly drug deaths because in the media/authoritie's mind a poly drug death is a wasted death. Assigning the death to whateve their focus is at the time is useful to their purposes and is therefore what they blame the od on. Guaranteed, theres more poly drug deaths than single substance deaths at a rate of 10:1 excepting possible IV heroin or maybe IV Opana. If they blame Oxycodone you can look for benzos and alcohol to have precipitated the death, same with vicoden. When its xanax and soma look for alcohol since they would have gladly called it an oxy death had there been any oxy in the "xanax od" system.

The authorities have no useful purpose in reporting the truth. Scaremongering doesnt work when you tell the truth.
 
dkmonk, it seems as if you have been through quite a bit. I for one cannot imagine going through bad opiate WD's, from what I hear. I would agree that the depression would certainly be the worst part of the experience. Depression takes all color out of life and can be much worse than physical pain. How long have you been sober for? Have you gotten back to normal?

I have been sober for 1 and a half. I have had a few occasions of using, but I did it only once each time about 4 times spaced throughout, due to me being in environments that I shouldn't of been in.

I think I am doing fine, and feel a lot better. I don't have cravings or think about shooting up but once in a blue moon, usually if I dream about it on a rare occasion. I think I still am a little less happy or optimistic about things than what is considerred normal, but that could just be how I am, and not residual effects from addiction. I am not sad or anything, but I tend to doubt people and their intentions, and don't get super excited like I see some people due about trivial things such as going to a movie, or mall. I feel functional and very able to deal with my emotions usually, where as before dealing with emotions meant drug use.

I am trying hard to change my thought process, although it isn't that bad and doesn't keep me from being happy most of the time, I just think if I thought in a positive manner first that it would be healthier, and not view things with feeling that there is an ulterior motive. It is hard for me to trust people since I was so untrustworthy and my friends were too when I was an addict. It brought out the worst in everyone, and was like a game to see who could get over on who with out them noticing.
 
HeadphonesandLSD: You said that you "have come close to oxycodone OD a handful of time", can you elaborate? Were you just on oxy? How do you know how close you were?

Sometimes it was just oxycodone yes, but typically in the form of roxicodone meaning instant release pill with nothing but Oxycodone in it. I might not have been too clear as I said every time it happened with just Oxy for me involved mixing it with other things. I never had my own prescriptions, and I would go out on the weekends mostly to house parties. There wasn't much to do were I grew up but hang out at a friends place or hope someone was throwing some kind of bonfire/house party. We did a lot of driving too of course, since after 2am you pretty much have the roads to yourself ;)

Anyway, most nights you were not sure what you were going to run in to. Usually you'd bounce from house to house looking for anything to catch a buzz on. So you'd run into pain killers one place, xanax another, and might run into stuff just by chance. I'm sure I don't have to really explain that to you, but that's the environment I was in.

Also, as far as opiates go we got to sample just about everything but H. I got my first real nod off old school Oxycontin before it was even well known. If you think about it maybe you'll figure out where I reside. ;) Point is, if it killed pain we tried it.

The substances that scared me the most, in order, would probably go something like: Opana ER, old school fentanyl gel patches, Dilaudid (first time, did way too much and mixed with xanax and lots of beer), old school Oxycontin (one bad experience, never did it much), and lastly Oxycodone mixed with xanax.

Anyway I can tell I'm close to doing too much these days. When I suddenly feel cold, and I'm covered in sweat, and I feel like I'm gong to pass out unless I lay down. That's how I know I'm in the danger zone. Sometimes I get a weak stomach too and feel like I might vomit, but I have a strong stomach so this isn't a good indicator for me. A naive user would most likely panic in that situation and would probably call for help (well, one would hope depends on ROA and what they're doing). A "junkie" might not for fear of police getting involved, depends on who you are. I mostly got in trouble because I'd try to "ride it out" instead of calling for help.

For me I was always trying to be careful, but once I got off and started chasing that high I did stupid shit. I was also one of those people that wouldn't go to bed sometimes and instead would stay up chasing until my supply ran out. Dark times near the end of that run. ;)

That was certainly an interesting story... that would scare the fuck out of me if I woke up after nodding off with my lungs hurting that bad. It's weird that they hurt when they become seriously depressed. Of course you couldn't have been "not breathing" for the whole time you were out. I wonder how that works. Do you switch from shallow breathing to no breathing at all? Obviously you can't say for sure because you were asleep lol but I am still curious non the less!

I was totally out of it and I only know the times because I was watching TV when I'd nod out and would check the times as soon as I came to. I didn't stop breathing all together of course, but based on how shitty I felt I'd say I was breathing just enough to not die. It scared me good...for a couple of weeks. :p

At any rate in all my time, and with all those bad experiences that was the worst of all. I should also note that at that particular time I needed about 50mg of Oxycodone to feel good, and while I knew Opana was potent and not to he fooled around with I simply lost track of how much I'd done. If I would have been crushing and cutting out those I wouldn't have did near as much. I should have been paying better attention, but I was too focused on what I was doing at the time.

Oh, and I should mention ODing isn't your only problems. One of these days I'll tell you about the night I put a car in a ditch. I'll cut it short and tell you the moral: Never mix cars, oxycodone, and a cell phone at 3am on a deserted highway. :D
 
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