oxy and gbl?

[masaz]

This is a bit off topic, but can anyone tell me what the best antihistamine are for potentiating oxycodone?
GP gave me Loratadine but that was just for the itch.

I would suspect it's one of the first generation ones that have a sedating effect, such as diphenhydramine. I don't use oxy, but I'd usually take a 25mg Nytol with codeine and it'd kill the itchies as well as causing me to notice the codeine a bit more. I have heard that it cuts the duration of the high, but never noticed it myself.

edit: pulled up a bit of relevant info from my luvverly predecessor who seems to be spot on:

"Potentiation" is a confusing term. To truly potentiate something a substance has to interfere with it's metabolism a la white GFJ. Often anything that adds to the sedation is said to potentiate opioids (benzos, sedating antihistamines etc) as the two combined have more of an effect than the opioids on their own.

Promethazine, diphenhydramine and other antihistamines do inhibit CYP2D6, which is involved in the metabolism of many opioids and benzos, so they could be said to be true potentiators as well as the added benefit of being sedating so adding to the nod.

CYP-450 chart for anyone who is interested (CYP-450 is a class of enzymes in the liver responsible for metabolising many drugs)

Codeine is a complicated one. It's metabolised by CYP2D6 to morphine, and this is inhibited by GFJ, cimetidine, promethazine, diphenhydramine etc, so you would think that it would be a bad idea to inhibit this. However, only approx 10% is converted to morphine and actually it seems that most of codeine's opioid effects come from a different metabolite, codeine-6-glucuronide, which follows a different metabolic pathway (can't remember which one, 3am here haha) or even from codeine itself. So actually, IMO (and IME) it is worth potentiating codeine the same way you would a different opioid or benzo.

Info on potentiating opioids:
Ultimate opioid potentiation megathread in Other Drugs

 

[knock]

Ceres's wiki quote supports what I'm saying:

Convulsions from GHB can be treated with diazepam or lorazepam,[11] even though these are also CNS depressants they are GABAA agonists, whereas GHB is primarily a GABAB agonist, so the benzodiazepines do not worsen CNS depression as much as might be expected.[citation needed]

Will you listen to me now you cunts and no, not my edit

And this is NOT a go-ahead to do anything other than very low-level combos, not that I see the point in them anyway, but maybe that's my atypical response. I acknowledge it's a potentially lethal mix.

 

[Ceres]

Ceres's wiki quote supports what I'm saying:

^- "citation needed" that was probably written by a 16 year old, i cant be bothered trying to find who put that in there in the history.

anyway :

GABA-α and GABA-ρ receptors produces sedative and hypnotic effects as well as producing anti-convulsion properties. GABA-β receptors also produce sedative effects and also leading to changes in gene transcription.

 

[knock]

Ceres, the statement with a citation kind of implies there is a safe level. Why is wiki only reliable when it supports one's own argument?

 

[Ceres]

treating someone whos overdosed ghb/gbl and is convulsing, with diazepam or lorazepam, is something that would be done probably by paramedics or other suitably trained and equipped people, a controlled environment, I don't think that implies any kind of safety in terms of recreational use of a combo of the two...

 

[Ceres]

Sedative medications (Benzodiazepines) interacts with GAMMA BUTYROLACTONE (GBL)

GBL might cause sleepiness and drowsiness. Medications that cause sleepiness and drowsiness are called sedatives. Taking GBL along with sedative medications might cause serious side effects. Do not take GBL if you are taking sedative medications.
Some of these sedative medications include clonazepam (Klonopin), diazepam (Valium), lorazepam (Ativan), and others.
Sedative medications (CNS depressants) interacts with GAMMA BUTYROLACTONE (GBL)

GBL might cause sleepiness and drowsiness. Medications that cause sleepiness are called sedatives. Taking GBL along with sedative medications might cause serious side effects. Do not take GBL if you are taking sedative medications.
Some sedative medications include clonazepam (Klonopin), lorazepam (Ativan), phenobarbital (Donnatal), zolpidem (Ambien), and others.

...

 

[knock]

These warnings are worded so as to suggest they are derived from the more general rule against combining sedatives - a rule which is an abstraction and as such open to exceptions.

I don't want to see boilerplate text I want hard facts! or even just logical progression which accounts for MY hard facts.

 

[Ceres]

Only 7/47 involved GHB/GBL on its/their own. The majority of cases involved the
ingestion of at least two other substances, typically alcohol and/or stimulants.
There was considerable variability in the range of GHB/GBL levels at postmortem.

In many instances the effects on respiratory depression of GHB/GBL were enhanced by the presence of alcohol and other CNS depressants such as benzodiazepines and opiates/opioids

Where the circumstances were known, the majority (232/41) of deaths followed
recreational use, often by individuals with
a history of substance use (63% of all
deaths where addict status was known).
A small number of
cases involved the
use of GHB to aid sleep and in one of these to assist body-building.
Most cases were
male (72%), White (93%) wher
e ethnicity was known, and aged
less than 35 years of age (80%), and occurred in Metropolitan areas (74%), and
were accidental in nature (80% where the circumstances are known).

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/119047/report-on-gbl1.pdf

 

[knock]

None of this text you're publishing indicates lethal dose! I get it, you can die :D

 

[Ceres]

I'd expect the limits to vary wildly from person to person and be unpredictable, so it really is a dangerous gamble if you don't know where the line between dead & alive might be.

 

[knock]

You're properly in "I'm correct despite lack of substantiating data" mode this morning

Not saying you're wrong, just that you haven't given any data to show you're right. Perhaps the data doesn't exist, of course.

 

[Ceres]

well you could probably go and dig up the toxicology reports for the deaths cited in that ACMD paper, and find out what levels of benzos and gbl were in the system of the deceased, but I'm not in the mood myself.

bottom line I think is GBL/GHB + CNS depressants like opiates, benzos, alcohol can and has caused deaths, the majority of which were accidental according to the ACMD's sample set. So it is a dangerous thing to do.

 

[lurching]

I reckon that everyone agrees with that bottom line.

The question "but how dangerous EXACTLY?" is probably better suited for an anaesthetics forum

 

[knock]

I don't know where the question is best asked, I asked it here because people made specific claims. The answer certainly belongs here as drug dosage and interaction facts are the subject of harm reduction.

 

[stereo mic]

Does anything, downer wise, mix well with GBL? Other than weed I can't think of any.

 

[knock]

The answer is Yes but it might kill you.

 

[Swarm]

The key thing here, or one of them ateast is to stay away from alcohol when on gbl. To the best of my knoweledge they both get broken down by many of the same enzymes in the liver and therefore many molecules of each drug are forced to stand in line much longer than usual until they get broken down. This makes things hellishly unpredictable and really could leave you six feet under. That's how that uni student went I do believe (Hester Stewart)

I used to combine my GBL with all sorts of benzo's, even strong shit like ambiens. i nearly died one time though, via GBL overdose. I had always taken it by myself before and so I was used to just measuring out my 2 ml, knecking it then getting on with whatever. On this one occasion I was sharing with a freind and we were well over the 48 hour mark on a Mephedrone DXM bender. The pipette was busted and this dude who had no clue about strength was just pouring the fucking gbl into a pint of lemonade or whatever, just like booze from a whiskey bottle. What s worse is he was taking a few sips, setting it down and then 5 mins later i would see it and kneck the rest. GBL sinks to the bottom of the glass. If I hadn't been on about 20 ml per day at that time I can't say with any great certaintly that i'd still be here right now to be honest with you. Creeps me out just thinking about it.

Btw knock i love the four hour buzz on that stuff. I don't possess any these days as i poured 3 litres down the toilet a few years back during a two week abstinence from drugs. Anyway though, i used to love it. Pop a stim as soon as i wake up, or just get on the weed and read the papers and shit. Bosh a couple of tramadols to get me in better shape for work and it was all good.

 

[Swarm]

None of this text you're publishing indicates lethal dose! I get it, you can die :D

You can definitely OD on GBL on its own - David Nutt stated that quite clearly in a program about alcohol in which he was heavily featured in. The trouble is that your body processes it so quickly that you're not gonna get a human LD50 derived from an accidently death anytime soon.

 

[Treacle]

I took about 1mg etizolam and 2.5ml GBL the other night.

Result: The GBL had NO EFFECT.

Do people really die from this combo or is there something else at work?

Same. In the past, I've taken just 1mg of alprazolam, and not been able to get high on G, AT ALL, for about six hours. I believe it's because it stops the GHB acting on the GHB receptor. G doesn't act directly on GABA-b sites, just the GHB ones, which then agonise/antagonise GABA-b, dopamine, serotonin, glutamate, etc. It's quite an interesting drug, plus the fact we have it in every cell of our bodies.

The LD-50 is apparently pretty fucking high, but, as stated above, it's gone before you know it. It's got a half-life of about 30 minutes.