Opioids Overcoming WD before taking Suboxone

[menotseen28]

Does anyone know if the Gabapentin will stop or ease the w/d symptoms?

I'm confused/concerned. If I'm trying to wait until I'm in w/d before dosing the subs but I'm using the Gabapentin and/or something else to mask the w/d symptoms how will I know? I'm thinking 16-17 hours is enough. Any advice?

It wont stop them, but it will ease them down some. I know because I have used it while waiting to get on Suboxone. The night before I went in for my first doctor visit, I was scared of the WD's from opiates as well. I knew that I couldn't have any opiates in my system 24 hours before I went in so I got me a couple Neurontin's. These were the big huge 800mg monsters that takes half a glass of Pepsi to just choke them down. A hour later, I was calmed down and I don't know they made me hazy feeling. Not high really, just numb or tingly feeling. They gave me a lot of energy and made me talk more. Now they wont take away the nausea or the diarrhea, get you some Zantac if need be. But for me, yes a couple of those 800mg Neurontin helped some. It wasn't like having Suboxone, but something is better than nothing.

 

[appleguy]

It wont stop them, but it will ease them down some. I know because I have used it while waiting to get on Suboxone. The night before I went in for my first doctor visit, I was scared of the WD's from opiates as well. I knew that I couldn't have any opiates in my system 24 hours before I went in so I got me a couple Neurontin's. These were the big huge 800mg monsters that takes half a glass of Pepsi to just choke them down. A hour later, I was calmed down and I don't know they made me hazy feeling. Not high really, just numb or tingly feeling. They gave me a lot of energy and made me talk more. Now they wont take away the nausea or the diarrhea, get you some Zantac if need be. But for me, yes a couple of those 800mg Neurontin helped some. It wasn't like having Suboxone, but something is better than nothing.

So can you tell me......Did you take the Neurontin as soon as you woke up and w/d kicked in? How often did you take them? And did you stop once you started with the subs?

 

[rhun]

OP, I think you're over thinking this. Don't fall into the trap of over planning and obsessing on every little detail of your taper/detox/recovery/whatever.

I started with oxycodone (Oxycontin 80s to be specific) when I first began using opiates, became physically dependent within a month or two, and took them daily until 9 months later when I was doing 160mg daily just to maintain and up to 600mg on weekends I just got over being addicted and took all my accumulated vacation time from work and quit cold turkey. First three days I had Xanax I believe but after that I was on my own. I was absolutely fucking miserable but I toughed it out because as shitty as it is, WD won't kill you (there are some extreme exceptions but not going to list them since I don't believe they're relevant to this case) and at least oxycodone (which percocet is one of the brand names for) has a much shorter duration than many other opiates/ioids.. so once you're in full blown WD it can only get better from there.

To sum it up, toss your pills and when you feel the first symptoms of WDs start taking the benzos and lay on your couch/bed and watch TV/browse the internet until you reach full blown WD (I watched an entire season of some tv show if I recall correctly and actually signed up for BL and started posting instead of lurking). I would stop the Percs in the morning so that all you have to do is get through the day, take enough benzos to sleep through the night, then take the first dose of Subs in the morning when you wake up. Feeling like crap for just under a day isn't the end of the world, it's a pretty short period of time and there's a definite end to the discomfort.

ETA: Benzos are going to be of way more use in helping with WDs than neurontin, if you can get valium I would take that and not even bother with the neurontin. Hot showers and a heating pad as often as needed will help with body pain as well as ibuprofen, and I would be taking a high quality multivitamin and drinking plenty of fluids containing elecotrolytes. Have simple, healthy food on hand that's easy to eat like soup, chicken, fruit, yogurt, etc.

 

[appleguy]

I'm 19 hours in and I don't feel TOO bad at all. It's now 3PM and I feel mildly ok....kind of spacey, a little out of it. I've taken 3 baclofen (300 mg) so far. One when I woke up at 5, one when I woke up again at 10 and one about 12. It's definitely keeping almost ALL of the symptoms at bay....the only thing is this spacey feeling. Definitly feel not myself...feel like I can't talk to anyone..definitly anxious. I did take a full valium for that but it knocked me out bad and I slept off and on for 4 hours.

My wife and kids will be home in about an hour. I'm debating whether I should take my first dose of sub now or if I should just keep waiting. I'm pretty positive that I'd be in FULL w/d by now if I hadn't been taking any baclofen.

Any thoughts? Take it now or wait until 24 hours and try to just hide this spacey, out of it feeling from my family for the night?

 

[appleguy]

Still haven't taken any. Anyone? Anyone?

I'm now starting to be concerned that maybe the gabopentin may be sitting on the receptors and if I take the subs I'll be in PW.

At this point, 22 hours in i feel GOOD. Very minimal anxiety or any symptoms. A little runny nose, little tired, weak, but no stomach pains, no major aches, no depression, no anxiety, none of the normal symptoms.

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

Still haven't taken any. Anyone? Anyone?

I'm now starting to be concerned that maybe the gabopentin may be sitting on the receptors and if I take the subs I'll be in PW.

At this point, 22 hours in i feel GOOD. Very minimal anxiety or any symptoms. A little runny nose, little tired, weak, but no stomach pains, no major aches, no depression, no anxiety, none of the normal symptoms.

Gabapentin is not an opiate and therefore does not fill the opiate receptors in the brain... taking suboxone on top of that can not cause PW's.

If you feel good.. then why would you want to take the suboxone? You might be able to completely detox just by tapering down on the gabapentin if it's working so well for you. Definitely don't start on suboxone if you don't need it.

 

[Cane2theLeft]

^ then you should probably wait longer.

Gabapentin's mechanism of action is not well understood but it certainly is not an opioid agonist and will not cause precipitated withdrawal. If you take bupe soon and experience P-WD that means it is still too soon after your last opioid agonist.

If you're feeling GOOD now, it's of course good to wait as long as you can (or even not use it as at all).

EDIT:

Beaten to it. Cheers, Mr. S.

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

^^

Sorry for the Ninja attack, bro. Hah.

 

[appleguy]

I should have been more clear. When I said I was feeling "Good", that was relative to having stopped my 400mg daily oxy habit 22 hours prior. I still didn't feel normal, or close to normal, just not bad and no real w/d symptoms. Still felt out of it, not myslef, skin crawling a little etc. Certainly not good enough to continue life like that. I couldn't go to work tomorrow if I felt that way. I know once I start the subs I'll feel TRULY normal and myself again. Then I can taper off of those fairly quickly. I was just using the gabapentin to keep wd symptoms down....it worked..FANTASTICALLY! Just made me feel very out of it and spacey.

I did take my first sub dose at 24 hours. Took .5mg, then another .5 at 25 hours. I'm starting to feel more calm and more normal. Definitely no PW. I'm glad i waited the full 24 hours to avoid that. I've had it before....lasted 3 days and it was hell.

I'm supposed to do some normal family activities tomorrow during the day and dinner tomorrow night. Certainly couldnt do those w/o taking subs. I'm pretty sure i can do one more .5mg tonight before bed, then wake up tomorrow and take some adn I'll have a normal day. I'm hoping. Time will tell.

For tonight I'm going to take another xanax, a baclofen and melatonin to get some sleep...i actually DID sleep a LOT today. I can't believe that the baclofen made me not only not feel all the wd, but made me sleep! Crazy. Who sleeps on day one??

Anyway, thank you both and everyone else. I'll keep you updated.

 

[appleguy]

Day two. I've taken 3 doses of 2mg so far. Going to take one more for a total of 8.

I'm trying to buy "less is more" but I didn't feel better and normal until I got more in my system. I think once it's in my system for 3 days and all my receptors are full I can cut down a lot but now I feel like I need more to even off.

In the past I've taken much higher doses in days 1-3 and then dropped by 25-50% in the 5 days following. I can get down to 3-4mg daily pretty quick.

I feel really great today (relatively speaking). Still not 100% normal but I'm sure I'll be there tomorrow or Monday.

I'm shooting for about 1 month on these before I completely stop. Is that a good timeframe? If I'm d

 

[appleguy]

own to 3mg daily soon I guess I should drop to one and then .5 and then .25? Any thoughts?

 

[appleguy]

3 days off opiates.
Day one used gabapentin and valium. Took 2.5mg of subs from 8pm til 11pm (24 to 27 hours in)
Day two used subs only (wound up taking 12mg)
Day 3 subs (took 13).

I think I just need more in the beginning.

I find myslef dosing every 2 hours like I did with perks. I'm sure it's a habit I have to break. ANy help on how many mg I should be taking and how many times a day I should take to get that quantity into my system? I'd prefer to do 2-3, I don't want to be taking these all day long....I kind of think it mentally hleps me think they're building up in my system in teh beginning.

I THINK i should be able to be fine on 4-6 within a few days. ANy thoughts? HELP?

 

[Cane2theLeft]

One of the reasons medications with long durations are used for detox purposes is for people to break the cycle of feeling the need to use something every couple hours, this aspect address the mental aspects while the drug itself addresses the physical.

If you continue to keep taking something every few hours, you're not only prolonging the physical dependence but the psychological aspects as well. If you can't find ways to cope with that now, how do you plan to completely abstain once you get off the subs?

Telling yourself that you need 12mg initially is almost definitely just rationalizing given the ceiling to agonist effects is a fraction of that and the duration is as long as it is. Buprenorphine's agonist ceiling is equivalent to 30mg of methadone so if you're habit with your DOC was higher than the equivalent of 30mg of methadone, no dose of buprenorphine will completely satiate you and you may be futilely taking more to try to compensate for this or you are just scratching that psychological itch.

 

[appleguy]

I've only been taking that many because it seems to remove the minor wd symptoms that I'm still experiencing. Maybe it's mental, maybe it's real....not sure.

I'm open to suggestions. Should I do 3 in the am, 3 after lunch and 3 around dinner time? Then go down to 8 a day later, 7? I'm totally open to suggestions.

As I said before I did this before and always seem to start high and get down low quick but this time I'm on day 3 and still having some wd symptoms. Anytime in the past they've been gone by now, so I'm taking more to try to eliminate them.