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Covid-19 Outbreak of new SARS-like coronavirus (Covid-19)

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^the problem is people believing media lies and then just accepting the shifting of goalposts without question.

Like it doesn't matter that they promised "20 BAZILLION DEATHS IF WE DON'T DO ANYTHING" - because now they can just say "oh well, the lockdowns worked".

But then you'll point out Sweden not locking down and then......*crickets*

OK, so I guess these liars with their fake models are still credible....
 
"because the governments would never act in such a concertedly malicious or dangerously reckless way"

Maybe this is my Canadian side showing, but at least on this side of the imaginary line, the government may be a bumbling bueracracy, but it's not actively out to make lives miserable and terrifying for its citizenry.

What is mind boggling to me is the fact that ITS essentially just the flu?!

That's an incredible oversimplification... people with influenza aren't often asymptomatic. Flu doesn't cause 30-40 year olds to have strokes and vascular problems. Nor does it cause loss of taste/smell.

Yeah, some people manage to go on with their daily lives without much fuss, but there are also cases of people being absolutely crippled by it, at a rate much higher than the flu.

Do you think a covid19 vaccine is even necessary or do you think natural herd immunity will ultimately be adequate enough?

It can go either way, of course. I would expect deployment of a safe and effective SARS-COV2 vaccine would be the faster, more ethical, overall less lethal option.
I don't think any self-respecting epidemiologist or health policymaker would just suggest throwing up our hands and holding pox parties would be a reasonable option though.

accepting the shifting of goalposts without question.

Why's this such a bad thing? The alternative is blind adherence to a conclusion, even in light of new evidence. I think it's pretty ridiculous to expect any sociological model to be useful in any sort of capacity without continual refinements - people are complex, and the complexity rises exponentially with every additional person involved.

Again, it seems to me you are implying anything short of a miraculous, clairvoyant predictive model is totally worthless. That's a pretty defeatist attitude. A model that errs on the side of overestimation can be criticized as fearmongering and hysterical. A model that underestimates cases would be trying to "sweep the situation under the rug" or expose people to unneccesary risk.

It's actually a very strange concept to me to live with a worldview that entails absolute and total distrust of governments, the media, health authorities, and the like. It seems to me it's often simply because the organization is bigger than a certain size, and especially towards anything too ivory-tower erudite or complex to be understood by the lowest common denominator (molecular biology, radio electronics, economic policy).

Instead it seems people fixate on any "authority" that can present a contrarian argument, favouring the underdog/minority opinions, all while accusing dissenters of appeal to the corrupt "authorities" of modern academia? Do you not see the contradiction here?



So JG, in your opinion, what's the real story behind the coronavirus? What's your explanation for the spike in deaths, people suffering respiratory distress, etc? I'm curious, since you seem to find somehow to discredit basically every explanation other than THE GOVERNMENT IS COVERING IT UP!!
 
I'm starting to believe there isn't actually a virus, but the Sun's Corona is going to reach Earth, like in Nicholas Cage in Knowing.
I only have 2 pieces of evidence. The Sun at times seems extraordinarily bright. Which may be due to the amount of hemp oil and cannabis I consume on a daily basis.
And the 2nd piece is that every time it is overcast the Sun burns a hole in the cloud cover so you have this small hole where the Sun is and the rest is grey.
I have seen too many Hollywood disaster movies to know that this is a giant coverup.
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honestly I really believe in this corona virus shit, but the media went sideways on the whole thing, there are so many theories, fake news, amplifying bullshit, picking flying ideas from left to right without sitting down and digesting some information before properly publishing it. I'm not gonna watch anymore media stuff, I really don't know what to believe anymore and what to take for granted.
 
I've updated the OP with some links to maps from the University of Oxford on per-capita cases, fatalities, and testing rates around the world.
 
I'm starting to believe there isn't actually a virus, but the Sun's Corona is going to reach Earth, like in Nicholas Cage in Knowing.
One theory is that our sun is part of a binary star system, and its "twin" may make itself known/visible soon which would certainly make life even more interesting.

Maybe this is my Canadian side showing, but at least on this side of the imaginary line, the government may be a bumbling bueracracy, but it's not actively out to make lives miserable and terrifying for its citizenry.
Your Canadian leader just circumvented parliamentary democracy and made a dictatorial decision to implement gun control. I even had a Canadian leftist (who is not a fan of guns) say to me that he strongly disagreed with the methods used to bring in these new laws. I personally think that the Nova Scotia shooting was a false flag - meaning that a faction of the government was responsible for these attacks - in order to sway public opinion to accept a swift implementation of a fascist gun ban (same thing as Port Arthur in Australia and Christchurch in NZ). They've tried this many times in the US as well but since they have the second amendment it's not so easy to take the citizens' guns. One weird thing about the NS shooting was that police officers were seen firing their weapons into a fire hall - for what? Also the authorities had the ability to send out an emergency warning to citizens in the vicinity via their cell phones - which they chose not to do. Instead they did it via Twitter which many people would not have seen. Imagine how many lives they could've saved if everyone had known that there was a gunman on the loose (once dressed as a cop no less). There is literally no plausible explanation for them to not have used the cell phone text warning - unless some people in power wanted to maximize the amount of people that died (lending weight to the false flag hypothesis). But that's a topic we could argue endlessly in much greater detail.

I don't think any self-respecting epidemiologist or health policymaker would just suggest throwing up our hands and holding pox parties would be a reasonable option though.
Developing a natural herd immunity might actually be the best course of action. I'd personally choose this option over fast-tracking a vaccine that hasn't had the time to go through rigorous safety testing.

Why's this such a bad thing? The alternative is blind adherence to a conclusion, even in light of new evidence. I think it's pretty ridiculous to expect any sociological model to be useful in any sort of capacity without continual refinements - people are complex, and the complexity rises exponentially with every additional person involved.
Then the actions taken need to be refined and updated along with the new information. For example - the models originally made terrifying and extreme predictions, and they were used as justification for extreme lockdowns. Later the models were proven to be wrong but the lockdowns continue. This doesn't make sense and it's what makes people think there's another agenda here - one that doesn't actually care about truth and the well-being of citizens.

Again, it seems to me you are implying anything short of a miraculous, clairvoyant predictive model is totally worthless. That's a pretty defeatist attitude. A model that errs on the side of overestimation can be criticized as fearmongering and hysterical. A model that underestimates cases would be trying to "sweep the situation under the rug" or expose people to unneccesary risk.
They should admit that the models were wrong, that they fucked up and so should reverse some of the most extreme reactions that they've taken. However I think that ultimately the powers that be knew that it wasn't going to be that bad and they misled the public in order to implement tighter controls and to flex their authoritarian muscles. Which also explains why they're being misleading and artificially inflating the numbers.

It's actually a very strange concept to me to live with a worldview that entails absolute and total distrust of governments, the media, health authorities, and the like.
If governments gave us reason to trust them then more people would do so. But if they've been consistently caught out being deceptive to pursue malicious agendas well then it's not surprising that so many people harbor an extreme distrust of almost anything that they say. Another reason is that it's comforting to trust the government and scary to think that they may be ultimately headed up genuinely evil people. I don't like that thought but I'll take uncomfortable truth over comforting lies any day of the week. It seems like an impossibly monumental task but it's not difficult to implement an evil agenda as long as you can control people and positions at the very top. Directives are passed down on a need-to-know basis and the rest is compartmentalized. The media is controlled and they disseminate the required propaganda to the people.

Instead it seems people fixate on any "authority" that can present a contrarian argument, favouring the underdog/minority opinions, all while accusing dissenters of appeal to the corrupt "authorities" of modern academia? Do you not see the contradiction here?
When an expert risks their career and reputation to speak out against authority and do what their conscience compels them to then they're going to be taken seriously by a lot of people. It doesn't mean that they're always telling the truth or that they might have their own personal incentives (money and fame for eg) but we're talking about life-threatening shit sometimes. People can get killed for telling the truth or even just doing honest work that they don't realize runs counter to some of these agendas.

So JG, in your opinion, what's the real story behind the coronavirus? What's your explanation for the spike in deaths, people suffering respiratory distress, etc? I'm curious, since you seem to find somehow to discredit basically every explanation other than THE GOVERNMENT IS COVERING IT UP!!
I think this virus was a result of a failed vaccine test originally out of Fort Detrick. I believe they're working on vaccines that attack parts of DNA in an attempt to make people more controllable. Unfortunately for them it may have backfired and had the opposite effect. Dangerous for the PTB so they tried to curb the spread of this 'rebellious' virus hence the extreme brainwashing regarding social distancing. I don't believe that they genuinely care about people spreading a dangerous virus - we've had flu seasons where tens of thousands have died and there's been no global PSAs telling people to even just wash their hands more often or to be careful around the elderly (the flu is also contagious and can easily be deadly for old people). So why is this different now? Especially considering that the mortality rate seems to be around 0.1% or maybe even lower. There should be no need to artificially inflate numbers - which is what they're doing for a fact.
Fear is an immune killer so there wouldn't be this media-driven agenda to scare the absolute shit out of people putting them into a constant state of fear, making them more susceptible to this virus (and others) if their goal was to keep people healthy. They wouldn't be closing beaches and attempting to keep people inside (nature and sunlight is beneficial for immunity).

So yes I do think the virus is dangerous for some old people and others who are immunocrompromised (just like the flu). Young, healthy people dying from this is extremely rare and if you hear a story like that then look at the details such as their medical history and the actual cause of death. It's also dangerous for people who do not receive the correct medical treatment (a worrying trend). 80% are asymptomatic and 99%+ recover. After all this let's see if governments start giving people good advice on how to be healthy - exercise more, lose weight, eat more healthy foods. Prediction - not going to happen, because caring for the health of the public is a farce. I'd also like to see the statistics regarding people who have died from covid19 and if they've been vaccinated. I wouldn't be surprised if people who've been vaccinated are more susceptible to contracting the disease and dying from it. Which is why I'm not letting them inject me with any of their shit. Which is why they're attempting to force people to take it. This will not succeed. It will backfire. Enough people are aware.

CORONAVIRUS SURVIVORS 'PERMANENTLY DISQUALIFIED' FROM JOINING U.S. MILITARY, RECRUITMENT MEMO SUGGESTS
This lends weight to my theory:
Now this is really bizarre. The vast majority of prospective DOD personnel have an age and health profile that makes them the LEAST likely to be bothered by this virus.

In addition, individuals who have contracted the virus are no longer contagious. So if the goal is to halt it's spread, you'd think that the US DOD would want as many such people as possible in the military.

Yet for some reason, having had this virus makes you PERMANENTLY ineligible to join.

Maybe contracting this virus has some other non health-related effects that are seen as undesirable in a soldier who is expected to simply follow orders.
That idea is not as outlandish as it might seem. It is well known that some viruses alter the behavior of their hosts for various reasons.
"During the medical history interview or examination, a history of COVID-19, confirmed by either a laboratory test or a clinician diagnosis, is permanently disqualifying," the memo reads.
 
"More data from Ireland (to add to Massachusetts, Italy and Sweden yesterday) that show that the the people in danger from SARS-CoV-2 are the over 65 with chronic underlying conditions. That is to say, the same demographic that are in danger from seasonal flu-like viruses."
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To be fair I am not censored anymore and it used to happen to me a lot (having posts unfairly edited or receiving undeserved infractions).

It's only an echo chamber in as much as there's a few members who sometimes gang up to ridicule some opposing opinions.

Thank you for saying that Grimez, we did put a lot of effort into undoing the damage from a time when indeed there was a lot of censorship of one side of things in here. Everyone has the right to express their opinions short of hate speech. I strongly believe that censorship of ideas is wrong which is why it bothers me when people still try to claim we're an echo chamber in here. I appreciate you acknowledging that and saying it publicly. (y)

Couple that with a government-sponsored war against our food supply

I am unconvinced there is an intentional attempt to undermine the food supply. However the fact that Michigan banned anyone from buying and selling seeds is very disturbing to me. If the government federally passed such a ban, I would change my mind on this particular issue. As it stands though, it's a nonsensical and draconian policy by one state. I can see no possible legitimate reason to prevent people from obtaining seeds to grow their own food... if anything they should want people to, for various reasons but among them, to help reduce trips to the grocery store. But like I said, there's nothing like that in any other state nor federally.

honestly I really believe in this corona virus shit, but the media went sideways on the whole thing, there are so many theories, fake news, amplifying bullshit, picking flying ideas from left to right without sitting down and digesting some information before properly publishing it. I'm not gonna watch anymore media stuff, I really don't know what to believe anymore and what to take for granted.

This. The virus is definitely real, it is definitely a concern. My cousin is a doctor and is on the front lines, and his testimony to me paints the picture of this being much different and more serious from the flu, if you develop a severe case. And it is mostly older people but are also young people with no pre-existing issues. They do not understand why the sickness manifests so strongly in some and not in others.

Along those lines, I agree the death rate is inflated, because we know many people have light symptoms, or even get very sick but not sick enough to seek medical attention, and these people, due to lack of testing, are not counted. However, this is still something we are right to be careful about, we need to err on the side of too careful rather than not careful enough. We don't know all of the effects this will have on people. There could be unforeseen long-term consequences that we don't have the perspective of time to see yet. People are losing their sense of taste and smell, people are recovering with permanent lung and other organ (like heart) damage. We just don't know, so we need to do what we can to minimize infection rate. What if, like chicken pox, it comes back later in a more serious form (shingles)? I have no idea if it will, but what if it does, and we just went about operating like "it's just the flu!", and a large percentage of the global population gets it, and then we find out we made a tremendous mistake down the line when we understand the full magnitude of the disease?

One theory is that our sun is part of a binary star system, and its "twin" may make itself known/visible soon which would certainly make life even more interesting.

I can't tell if you're being serious, because the post you quoted was made in jest. But although I'm no astronomer, it seems inconceivably unlikely that we would live in a binary star system and not already know about it.
 
Your Canadian leader just circumvented parliamentary democracy and made a dictatorial decision to implement gun control

We actually already have gun control, we've had it for years. And this is hardly a total ban, it's just restricting certain scary looking rifles, effectively. If you want a gun you can damn well get one here still.

And? Why is this a problem? Unlike the US, Canadians do not have a right to bear arms. Many Canadians are overall averse to gun ownership. You actually cannot legally use a firearm to defend yourself here - no castle law. Pistols can only be used for target shooting and require specific authorization to carry between locations, need to be double-locked, etc. Rifles are semi-automatic only, no more than 10 round magazines, and only for use target shooting or hunting. It is a long and involved process to get any firearm, a firearms license requires a pretty intensive background check, a course with a certified instructor, waiting periods and such. You can't just go down to Bob's Guns and grab a .44 magnum.

And we like it that way, as crazy as that may sound.

An “overwhelming majority” majority of Canadians – nearly four out of five people – support the ban, according to a poll from the Angus Reid Institute, released Friday.

"Canadians, unlike Americans, do not have a constitutional right to bear arms. Indeed, most Canadians prefer the peace of mind and sense of security derived from the knowledge that the possession of automatic weapons is prohibited," R v Hasselwander 1993

That said, I do agree that it's a bit of a knee jerk reaction. The recent shooter was using illegally imported weapons (plus pistol stolen from a cop). So this firearms restriction is not gonna prevent criminals at all. "When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns". It is being challenged in court curently.

Also the authorities had the ability to send out an emergency warning to citizens in the vicinity via their cell phones - which they chose not to do.

It's funny, I recall reading not too recently that Eastern Canada had issues with people who were grumbling about excessive testing of the cell phone EAS. It would be so damn Canadian if they didn't put an alert out for fear of causing people to complain about being disturbed by a loud noise....

Then the actions taken need to be refined and updated along with the new information. For example - the models originally made terrifying and extreme predictions, and they were used as justification for extreme lockdowns. Later the models were proven to be wrong but the lockdowns continue.

I feel like I'm repeating myself, but isn't it possible that there's some correlation between the lockdowns and the much slower than anticipated spread of COVID? Do you really think the graph of deaths vs time would look identical if there were never any lockdowns?

we've had flu seasons where tens of thousands have died and there's been no global PSAs telling people to even just wash their hands more often or to be careful around the elderly [..] After all this let's see if governments start giving people good advice on how to be healthy - exercise more, lose weight, eat more healthy foods. Prediction - not going to happen, because caring for the health of the public is a farce.

Up here, Health Canada does this. I see notices at basically every pharmacy and doctor's office at flu season. There's often big friendly charts about flu prevention techniques.
I could swear that the FDA provides plenty of advice on healthy living, but most people don't see the need for such education.

that show that the the people in danger from SARS-CoV-2 are the over 65 with chronic underlying conditions. That is to say, the same demographic that are in danger from seasonal flu-like viruses."

And the other 50% of ICU admissions for people aged 25-65 don't count? That's more than a rounding error.


I absolutely refuse to adopt an attitude of de facto fear and distrust. Yes, there are truly twisted and malicious people out there, but they are a small minority, and in a correctly functioning society they eventually grt their comeuppance, be it through legal methods or ostracism. The vast majority of people I have met are aggreable enough folk. I don't know how I could function at all if I lived in a society where everyone was always out to get me.
 
My cousin is a doctor and is on the front lines, and his testimony to me paints the picture of this being much different and more serious from the flu, if you develop a severe case.
Severe cases of the flu KILL people. What's more serious than that? Flu is still a bigger killer than covid btw and they're very closely related (7-15% of flu deaths each year are due to a coronavirus). and each year we see novel flu strains.

And it is mostly older people but are also young people with no pre-existing issues. They do not understand why the sickness manifests so strongly in some and not in others.
Check if they've received the flu shot. I'd unfortunately bet money that there's a correlation. Who's keen for their flu shot this year? This will really test their beliefs.

I am unconvinced there is an intentional attempt to undermine the food supply.
Well there is and it's serious and psychopathic. I've been watching it unfold in slow-motion for years and become accelerated over the past few months.
I implore you to watch this Meat Shortage Just the Start -- Forces Creating Food Shortages
This guy has been on the money following and reporting on all for a long time. Exposing the government, getting information directly from farmers etc.

I can't tell if you're being serious, because the post you quoted was made in jest. But although I'm no astronomer, it seems inconceivably unlikely that we would live in a binary star system and not already know about it.
You'd think so. It seems inconceivable that the establishment could keep such massive secrets from people but my mind remains open.

And this is hardly a total ban, it's just restricting certain scary looking rifles, effectively. If you want a gun you can damn well get one here still.
I don't even know where to begin with this. All guns are scary. Ban them all. Knives are even scarier.

An “overwhelming majority” majority of Canadians – nearly four out of five people – support the ban, according to a poll from the Angus Reid Institute, released Friday.
Most Australians supported the gun seizures here too, that doesn't mean it was the right thing to do. If you're naive enough to trust the government then I can understand agreeing with draconian laws but for the ones who are switched-on, government overreach and the circumvention of parliament is extremely concerning. In Australia the average person would say that the gun ban was a success but they're stupid - I was just arguing with 5 of them yesterday and all of them resorted to emotional arguments and refused to address the facts. I pointed out that after the bans there was no significant drop in homicide rates or violent crimes rates. One guy kept pointing out that gun-related homicides were down but that was irrelevant if there's no change in the actual homicide rates. It's like saying banning cars will reduce the number of car-related fatalities.

I feel like I'm repeating myself, but isn't it possible that there's some correlation between the lockdowns and the much slower than anticipated spread of COVID?
Oh YOU feel like YOU'RE repeating yourself.....lol... welcome to the club.
Sweden didn't lock down - no significant difference in cases or deaths. Case closed. Lockdowns are stupid, ineffective, will do more harm than good and if you don't realize that by now then you're simply a slave to mainstream media bullshit and I'm getting sick of it (this is directed at everyone in the world who refuses to get it).

Also Japan didn't create any new laws. They just made recommendations. Their economy isn't going down the shitter and they don't have uncontrollable outbreaks. It's infuriating that people are still supporting these lockdowns. Once the subsequent effects are felt, a lot of people are going to feel very f**king stupid for the madness that they supported.

I could swear that the FDA provides plenty of advice on healthy living, but most people don't see the need for such education.
In Japan they often have mandatory short exercise/calisthenics for employees. In the US more than half a million people each year die from preventable obesity-related issues. I could also go on about the insane number of people dying from other preventable diseases. The government doesn't give a shit. They could be doing so much more to save lives, implementing new rules etc. But they don't. And now they're kicking people off of beaches and throwing salon owners in jail for 7 days under the false pretense of saving lives? You can probably notice my frustration but I cannot believe that so many people are lapping up this obvious BULLSHIT.

And the other 50% of ICU admissions for people aged 25-65 don't count? That's more than a rounding error.
Deaths is ultimately what matters along with the medical history of the admissions of younger people.

I absolutely refuse to adopt an attitude of de facto fear and distrust.
I'm not scared. Learning the truth may be scary at first but then you are more free because knowledge protects. These days when I watch mainstream media news it's like I am looking through the Matrix, while other people are bombarded with fear which they then internalize putting themselves into a fear state where they are susceptible to being misled or getting sick. When I watch the news, by listening to what they're saying, I can see the true intention of what they're going for. Where they're directing people's attentions, what agenda they're playing.

Yes, there are truly twisted and malicious people out there, but they are a small minority
This is true but what you fail to realize is that they are the ones at the top of the power hierarchies. Read a book called Political Ponerology, it was written by a Polish psychiatrist who lived under oppressive rule and secretly studied his oppressors. He expertly detailed how psychopaths rise up the power structures and are then able to spread their evil on a macrosocial level. It will educate you on what's happening.

and in a correctly functioning society they eventually grt their comeuppance be it through legal methods or ostracism.
No they don't not if they have control of the judiciary and have the important decision-makers in their pockets. Everyone knows that the really powerful people can get away with crimes and a double standard of law is implemented (take the Hillary Clinton server scandal as one of the most obvious examples).
We should be ostracizing these dangerous psychopaths (3-6% of the population) but you know what they did? They removed the study of themselves from academia. Clever, right? So now the average person has no understanding of the 'garden variety' or political psychopath. With the proper education we could recognize and ostracize them, but instead they run the show and virtually everyone is none the wiser.

The vast majority of people I have met are aggreable enough folk.
Me too. Those people are not representative of the ones I am talking about and it's dangerous to proscribe conscience to everyone especially the ones in power. In fact this is precisely how they get away with doing what they're doing. The psychopathic mind is such an alien place to people of conscience that most literally have no idea how different they really are. Even myself who has a pretty good understanding of psychopathy am still unable to truly comprehend these pathological types (but I can see the effects of their decisions).

I don't know how I could function at all if I lived in a society where everyone was always out to get me.
Like I said, it's scary at first. But ignorance is bliss (until you've been obliviously led down the wrong path due to a refusal to accept what was happening).
Things could change if everyone woke up but the ones in control have successfully effectively put most of the population into a state of slumber or to a more extreme extent, a state of Stockholm Syndrome. Where people will defend the mental prison that they're in and actively and viciously attack someone who attempts to point this out to them or actively free them from it.
 
LOL this is inappropriate and off-topic and I'm quite happy alone. I am not sex-addicted (anymore).

Thanks for your concern though.
I don't think it's "off-topic" insomuch as sex is a quarantine issue, I imagine it's impacting a lot of people's minds, mental well being, etc... and perhaps impacting how they perceive covid-19.

0% of me wants to tell YOU to change YOUR beliefs, of course.

I'm just an indifferent observer making observations... and I've seen a lot of people not getting some during the lockdown. It's not just you so don't feel like I'm calling you out.
 
Also Japan didn't create any new laws. They just made recommendations.

That's also true in the US, though not in Europe.

In the US more than half a million people each year die from preventable obesity-related issues. I could also go on about the insane number of people dying from other preventable diseases. The government doesn't give a shit. They could be doing so much more to save lives, implementing new rules etc.

So it would be okay to create new laws to prevent other preventable disease, just not covid?

I agree that at least in the US (I can't speak for anywhere else as I don't live there), there is a huge health epidemic (related to diet mostly, and for-profit health care that focuses on keeping people sick and treating symptoms), and not only do they not give a shit, they have engineered it. But that's a separate issue.
 
In Australia the average person would say that the gun ban was a success but they're stupid - I was just arguing with 5 of them yesterday and all of them resorted to emotional arguments and refused to address the facts. I pointed out that after the bans there was no significant drop in homicide rates or violent crimes rates. One guy kept pointing out that gun-related homicides were down but that was irrelevant if there's no change in the actual homicide rates. It's like saying banning cars will reduce the number of car-related fatalities.

Wow...

I actually.. Entirely agree with you there. Apart from simply saying "but they're stupid", I could mistake it for something I'd written. Right down to the same argument.

I know how you feel, it's super frustrating.

They always point to gun related crime cause the whole "success" kinda falls apart otherwise.
 
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