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Covid-19 Outbreak of new SARS-like coronavirus (Covid-19)

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Here’s another anecdote about how how coronavirus feels:

This Is What It Feels Like to Catch the Coronavirus

This article below is hilarious. I’m not sure if the government or the people in this town are scarier.
However, the history of Anniston, with the storage and destruction of America’s chemical weapons stockpile and the Monsanto plant polluting it, is really stunning and not funny. Why dump coronavirus into their fake quarantine facility?

This story makes my limited faith in humanity dwindle.

Coronavirus rumors and chaos in Alabama point to big problems as U.S. seeks to contain virus
 
I wish people wouldn't act like their personal anecdotal experiences proves anything. That's the reason we have so many sham medicines for diseases. Especially diseases that can get better on their own with no intervention.

Now that's not to say that it might not be worth doing a study on the effectiveness of vitamin c in reducing the severity if Coronavirus. Just that you can't take one families experience and act like it's proof.

I'm not saying you're doing that JGrimez but it's how the headline reads to me.

High doses of Vitamin C have been recommended in the past for a whole host of health issues or just in general for disease prevention. I wish people wouldn't write vague unnecessary responses to posts that are and instead offer something of potential value or at least elaborate on the topic.

BTW did you even click the link and watch the video? I'd bet $100 that you didn't. Do that before commenting
 
High doses of Vitamin C have been recommended in the past for a whole host of health issues or just in general for disease prevention. I wish people wouldn't write vague unnecessary responses to posts that are and instead offer something of potential value or at least elaborate on the topic.

BTW did you even click the link and watch the video? I'd bet $100 that you didn't. Do that before commenting

You owe me a hundred bucks then.

Yes vitamin c has been found in some studies to shorten the length of the cold but that does not mean recommending it for Coronavirus on the basis of one families experience is justified. It's not and people don't need any more encouragement to be making health decisions based on rumor or anecdotes.

So where's my check?
 
Yes vitamin c has been found in some studies to shorten the length of the cold but that does not mean recommending it for Coronavirus on the basis of one families experience is justified. It's not and people don't need any more encouragement to be making health decisions based on rumor or anecdotes.
uhh it can't hurt, and it could help with prevention. I'm more likely to trust a whistleblower doctor who treated patients than Chinese government propaganda coming from a state that tried to cover up the outbreak for months making it worse, and who do not have a track record for reliable information.

So yeah it's important to hear from people who survived infection.
 
uhh it can't hurt, and it could help with prevention. I'm more likely to trust a whistleblower doctor who treated patients than Chinese government propaganda coming from a state that tried to cover up the outbreak for months making it worse, and who do not have a track record for reliable information.

So yeah it's important to hear from people who survived infection.

It most certainly can hurt. People have died from idiot cures because they believed testimonials and anecdotes.

It's not super likely with vitamin c granted. The side effects of even heavy doses are pretty minor, but again my point is less the specifics and more the general act of going "this person got better from x after taking y therefore x cured y".

You might turn out to be right, it might help with prevention. But that should be based off the results off scientific data not anecdote. That's the issue I have.
 
I agree with that but it's difficult when it's early and also when the information from authorities isn't always trustworthy.
I didn't tell anyone to do anything just offered information.

Like for eg I've seen from a few sources that there may be links to corona-virus deaths and people who previously took the sars vaccine. I think people should know this information because the authorities may soon suggest a corona vaccine. Personally I wouldn't take it.
 
I agree with that but it's difficult when it's early and also when the information from authorities isn't always trustworthy.

Yes it is difficult, but it's still the better option than going with super unreliable individual cases.

I didn't tell anyone to do anything just offered information.

I know you didn't. Which is why I tried to be clear that I wasn't being critical of you for posting it, just of what it was.


Like for eg I've seen from a few sources that there may be links to corona-virus deaths and people who previously took the sars vaccine. I think people should know this information because the authorities may soon suggest a corona vaccine. Personally I wouldn't take it.

I don't agree at all. Between the virus and the panic things are bad enough without adding even more conflicting advice and seeing people believe random suggestions backed only by virtually nothing. Not to mention that news sources have a habit of distorting things.

Yes health authorities can make mistakes that's certainly true, but I'd say it's still far better and more reliable to listen to them than the kinda crap that causes people to do stupid shit endangering themselves and others.
 
I'm glad we're in agreement. :)

Most people are gonna make their choices with no idea what they're doing anyway. It's blind anyway.
 
There's 2 presumptive positive cases awaiting confirmation at the CDC in my state now. I'm glad I've got about a month worth of food, kratom, my pharmaceuticals, and n95 masks for when I smelt, cast and powder paint lead.

I'm probably catastrophising, but I'm asthmatic and epileptic and tend to catch just about every respiratory bug that goes around, so some preparation seems warranted given the circumstances...
 
Hoping the fatality rate will decrease with time.

I think we can be virtually certain of that. The question is just how much it will reduce and over what time.

Viruses have a natural tendency to get less lethal anyway. And since they keep rationing the tests for only the sickest people, the mortality rate is almost certainly inflated.

The million dollar question is by how much. If it's very inflated, that could be great news. If it's still even close to the current estimate that would be really bad.
 
Viruses have a natural tendency to get less lethal anyway.
It depends. If it re-emerges in fall (if it disappears in spring, that is), it could come back more virulent.
Spanish flu is probably the most famous example of this phenomenon (I’m aware coronavirus and influenza are different), although scientists argue about whether it was a change in the virus 🦠, so it’s not dogma, but a lot more people died in the second wave.
 
It depends. If it re-emerges in fall (if it disappears in spring, that is), it could come back more virulent.
Spanish flu is probably the most famous example of this phenomenon (I’m aware coronavirus and influenza are different), although scientists argue about whether it was a change in the virus 🦠, so it’s not dogma, but a lot more people died in the second wave.

Sure but it's still the case that sooner or later it should either get less lethal or die out when too many people have already been infected.

I'm not sure it really matters anyway, one way or another the pandemic will end, it's just a question of how much damage it'll do till then.
 
I am more concerned about this shit:

"On Tuesday, Attorney-General Christian Porter gave a few hints of the planning underway when he hit the airwaves to remind us of powers the Commonwealth has at its disposal under the biosecurity act passed in 2015.

Porter warned people could "encounter practices and instructions and circumstances that they've not had to encounter before".



 
I wish people wouldn't act like their personal anecdotal experiences proves anything. That's the reason we have so many sham medicines for diseases. Especially diseases that can get better on their own with no intervention.

Now that's not to say that it might not be worth doing a study on the effectiveness of vitamin c in reducing the severity if Coronavirus. Just that you can't take one families experience and act like it's proof.

I'm not saying you're doing that JGrimez but it's how the headline reads to me.


Vitamin C is vital for immune function , so can't remember the pathway or details , too long ago and there's a plateau of dose that becomes useless too much, thrn dangerous.


Keeping a healthy diet and multivitamins is an option but so is being lazy and not bothering with diets, either way if you get it you'll need thousands of toilet paper rolls.
 
Italy is quarantining over 15 million people. I could easily see China doing this, but with Italy, I’m a little surprised.
This can now happen anywhere which is why it's advisable to stock up on supplies - once the panic-buying in your area begins you don't want to be outside.
I'd personally recommend 3-6 months worth of food and then other stuff like salt, medications etc.
Learning to grow one's own food is also highly advisable for over the coming decades.

Keeping a healthy diet and multivitamins is an option
The problem with multivitamins is that they usually contain such a tiny amount of each vitamin or mineral. They'll probably contain on average a few hundred mg of vitamin C while it's been recommended to take 1000-5000mg daily for health/prevention and double that or more (IV) if you get sick.
 
To follow-on from the video on the previous page:

Early Large Dose Intravenous Vitamin C is the Treatment of Choice for 2019-nCov Pneumonia

OMNS February 16, 2020) The 2019-nCov (coronavirus) epidemic originated in Wuhan, China and is now spreading to many other continents and countries, causing a public fear. Worst of all, there is no vaccine or specific antiviral drugs for 2019-nCov available. This adds to the public fear and gloomy outlook. A quick, rapidly deployable and accessible, effective and also safe treatment is urgently needed to not only save those patients, to curtail the spread of the epidemic, but also very important in the psychological assurance to people worldwide, and to the Chinese in particular. Acute organ failure, especially pulmonary failure (acute respiratory distress syndrome, ARDS) is the key mechanism for 2019-nCov's fatality. Significantly increased oxidative stress due to the rapid release of free radicals and cytokines etc. is the hallmark of ARDS which leads to cellular injury, organ failure and death. Early use of large dose antioxidants, especially vitamin C (VC), therefore, plays a key role in the management of these patients. We call upon all those in the leadership, and those providing direct assistance patients, to bravely and rapidly apply large dose intravenous vitamin C (IVC) to help those patients and to stop this epidemic.

2019-nCov is a rapidly developing epidemic with a high morbidity and mortality.

Wang et al reports 26% ICU admission rate and a 4.3% mortality rate in their 138 confirmed cases [1]. Chen et all report that out of 99 confirmed 2019-nCov patients, 17 (17%) patients developed ARDS and, among them, 11 (11%) patients worsened in a short period of time and died of multiple organ failure.

Increased oxidative stress, an underlying "cytokine storm," leads to ARDS which is the key pathology of high mortality of these pandemic viral infections. Cytokine storm-induced ARDS is the key pathology leading to death of these patients [2]. Intravenous vitamin C effectively counters oxidative stress.

Cytokine storm
Coronaviruses and influenza are among the pandemic viruses that can cause lethal lung injuries and death from ARDS [3]. Viral infections cause a "cytokine storm" that can activate lung capillary endothelial cells leading to neutrophil infiltration and increased oxidative stress (reactive oxygen and nitrogen species) that further damages lung barrier function [3]. ARDS, which is characterized by severe hypoxemia, is usually accompanied by uncontrolled inflammation, oxidative injury, and the damage to the alveolar-capillary barrier [4]. The increased oxidative stress is a major insult in pulmonary injury such as acute lung injury (ALI) and acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS), two clinical manifestations of acute respiratory failure with substantially high morbidity and mortality [5,6].

In a report of 29 patients confirmed of 2019-nCov pneumonia patients, 27 (93%) showed increased hsCRP, a marker of inflammation (and oxidative stress) [7]. Transcription factor nuclear factor erythroid 2-related factor 2 (Nrf2) is a major regulator of antioxidant response element- (ARE-) driven cytoprotective protein expression. The activation of Nrf2 signaling plays an essential role in preventing cells and tissues from injury induced by oxidative stress. Vitamin C is an essential element of the antioxidant system in cellular response [8].

Part of vitamin C's biological effects in critical care management are well reviewed in a recent article by Nabzdyk and Bittner from Mass Gen Hospital of Harvard Medical School on World's Journal of Critical Care Medicine [9]:

Antioxidant, radical oxygen scavenger protecting cells from oxidative Steroid- and catecholamine synthesis, cofactor in catecholamine, vasopressin and steroid synthesis, improves hemodynamics, may accelerate resolution of shock
Immune cell function. Increases neutrophil phagocytosis and chemotaxis, affects macrophage migration, enhances T and NK cell proliferation, modulates their function, may increase antibody formation.
Endothelial cell function. Decreases endothelium ICAM expression and leukocyte adhesion, improves endothelial barrier function, improves microcirculation
Carnitine production, modulates fatty acid metabolism, may improve microcirculation and cardiac function
Wound healing, cofactor of collagen synthesis, mitogen for fibroblasts
Antioxidants, especially large dose IV vitamin C (IVC) in the management of ARDS.
It's clear that increased oxidative stress plays a major role in the pathogenesis of ARDS and death. Cytokine storm is observed in both viral and bacterial infections [3]. Cytokine storm leads to increased oxidative stress, ARDS and death seems to be a common and non-specific pathway. This is important in clinical management. Since the prevention and management targeting increased oxidative stress with large dose of antioxidants seems a logical step and can be applied to these deadly pandemics, without the lengthy waiting for pathogen-specific vaccines and drugs, as is the case of the current 2019-nCov epidemic.

As a matter of fact, large dose intravenous vitamin C (IVC) has been used clinically successfully in viral ARDS and also in influenza [10]. Fowler et al described a 26-year-old woman developed viral ARDS (rhinovirus and enterovirus-D68) [3]. She was admitted to ICU. After failure to routine standard management, she was placed on ECMO on day 3. High dose IVC (200mg/kg body/24 hour, divided in 4 doses, one every 6 hours) was also started on ECMO day 1. Her lungs showed significant improvement on day 2 of high dose IVC infusion on X-ray imaging. She continued to improve on ECMO and IVC and ECMO was discontinued on ECMO day 7 and the patient recovered and was discharged from the hospital on hospital day 12, without the need of supplemental oxygen. One month later, X-ray of her lungs showed complete recovery. Gonzalez et al (including one of the authors, Thomas Levy) reported recently a severe case of influenza successfully treated with high dose IVC [10]. 25-year-old MG developed flu-like symptoms which was rapidly deteriorating to the degree that, about 2 weeks later, the patient barely had the energy to use the toilet. He was placed on high dose IVC (50,000 mg of vitamin C in 1000 ml Ringer's solution, infused over 90 minutes). The patient immediately reported significant improvement the next day. On day 4 of IVC infusion he reported to feel normal. He continued oral VC (2,000 mg twice daily) [10]. Another story has been widely circulating on the social media that large dose IVC reportedly was used in 2009 to save a New Zealand farmer, Alan Smith (Primal Panacea). One of us (Thomas Levy) was consulted upon in this case [11] [12]. Hemila et al reported that vitamin C shortens ICU stay in their 2019 meta-analysis of 18 clinical studies with a total of 2004 ICU patients on the journal Nutrients [13]. In this report, 17,000 mg/day IVC shortened the ICU stay by 44%. Marik et al reported their use of IVC in 47 sepsis ICU cases. They found a significant reduction in mortality rate in the IVC group of patients [14].

Dietary antioxidants (vitamin C and sulforaphane) were shown to reduce oxidative-stress-induced acute inflammatory lung injury in patients receiving mechanical ventilation [15]. Other antioxidants (curcumin) have also been shown to have promising anti-inflammatory potential in pneumonia [16].

High dose IVC has been clinically used for several decades and a recent NIH expert panel document states clearly that high dose IVC (1.5 g/kd body weight) is safe and without major side effects [17].

Summary
2019-nCov pneumonia is a rapidly developing disease with high morbidity and mortality rate. The key pathogenesis is the acute lung injury causing ARDS and death. Coronaviruses, influenza viruses and many other pandemic viral infections are usually associated with an increase oxidative stress leasing to oxidative cellular damage resulting in multi-organ failure. Antioxidants administration therefore has a central role in the management of these conditions, in addition to the standard conventional supportive therapies. Preliminary clinical studies and case reports show that early administration of high dose IVC can improve clinical conditions of patients in ICU, ARDS and flu. It needs to be pointed that pandemics like 2019-nCov will happen in the future. Specific vaccines and antiviral drugs R&D take long time to develop and are not available for the current nCov epidemic and won't be ready when the next pandemic strikes. IVC and other antioxidants are universal agents for ARDS that can be rapidly applied clinically. Given that high dose IVC is safe, can be effective, we call on the involved leadership and healthcare professionals to look into high dose IVC without further delay. More clinical studies of the IVC and oral VC (such as liposomal-encapsulated VC) are needed to develop standard protocols for the current use and future uses are urgently needed. We hope when the next pandemic strikes, we won't be so helpless and we'll be ready.
 
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