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Covid-19 Outbreak of new SARS-like coronavirus (Covid-19)

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chinup said:
vaccinations have a clear benefit to the recepient so i don't see how that's relevant.
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Maybe you need to explain that to your colleague Vastness who used it as the prime justification for utilitarianism.

Medical interventions do require informed consent except in emergency when deemed consent is allowed but still has to be limited or if you are mentally incapable becuase you have been sectioned.

I am anti-statist whether the statist flavor is right or left wing. You presume that I am right wing becuase you do not agree with me and you identify as left wing with all the quirks and foibles that go with that.

the twisting of the arguament to the emotional "think of the children" is classic logical fail, Helen Lovejoy stylee. The children are not the property of the state, they have a right to be protected but that is tempered by the non interference of the state in private family matters, Article 8 ECHR.
 
actually i do not identify as left wing. i am right of centre socially and left of centre economically, so consider myself a centrist.

Article 2 of the ECHR is the right to life. vaccine preventable diseases kill. so how do you square your position with the people who do die as a result of anti-vaxxers?
 
chinup said:
actually i do not identify as left wing. i am right of centre socially and left of centre economically, so consider myself a centrist.

Article 2 of the ECHR is the right to life. vaccine preventable diseases kill. so how do you square your position with the people who do die as a result of anti-vaxxers?
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likewise vaccines do kill people too, how do you square your positiion with article 2 of the ECHR?

Nuance and proportionality is great isn't it. The chances of someone dying as a result of not being vaccinated for a preventable disease is slight therefore the infringement of Article 2 right is proportionate given the low absolute risk. Article 8 then applies. Certainly it has to be considered on an individual basis and blanket pronouncements and mandates are therefore neither proportionate nor commensurate with the harm trying to be avoided, ie not reasonably neccessary.

If you cross this line where do you stop, do you prevent 'ignorant' people from having children (direct contravention article 8.. ) because the children may be harmed including suffering death? If that was the case then there would be a lot fewer BL members. Should drug addicts be allowed to keep their children? because children of drug addicts have a statistically significant higher risk of death?
 
chinup said:
actually i do not identify as left wing. i am right of centre socially and left of centre economically, so consider myself a centrist.
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Lol, usually people claim the opposite, right economically left socially.

I don't much care for labels but being quite pro capitalist I don't consider myself especially economically left, but these labels are all silly. Especially in a world where people call Biden far left.

At this point if you're left of a fascist skinhead you're considered a far left socialist politically. :P
 
simple: vaccines kill orders of magnitude fewer people than the diseases they prevent.

but yet, you are right, this is nuance to us because its a discussion on a drug forum. but it is also a matter of life and death and i think in such a case it is better to defer to experts, in this case the medical establishment.

btw the reason i assumed you were right wing is because i consider myself generally against government interference, so if someone is against government interference that i support it usually means they are right wing.

the line is already crossed- children get taken away all the time, often unjustifiably.

@JessFR i agree, labels are silly. i also consider myself pro capitalist but when i look at the sorts of things i'd be happy for my taxes to pay for i find myself categorised to the left.
 
chinup said:
simple: vaccines kill orders of magnitude fewer people than the diseases they prevent.

but yet, you are right, this is nuance to us because its a discussion on a drug forum. but it is also a matter of life and death and i think in such a case it is better to defer to experts, in this case the medical establishment.

btw the reason i assumed you were right wing is because i consider myself generally against government interference, so if someone is against government interference that i support it usually means they are right wing.

the line is already crossed- children get taken away all the time, often unjustifiably.

@JessFR i agree, labels are silly. i also consider myself pro capitalist but when i look at the sorts of things i'd be happy for my taxes to pay for i find myself categorised to the left.
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Well that's the thing. It's insane what's come to be considered "socialism" in America.

Basically if you use tax payer money for... Anything except lining politicians and companies pockets, it's socialist!

Fuck that shit. No one's gonna convince me that having a decent healthcare system like all the other western countries is some kinda gateway drug straight to communism.
 
Profits go to a very small sector. Politicians are playing favorites with corona. Epstein pedo ring profits while we depend on Washington. Fuck that
 
chinup said:
vaccinations have a clear benefit to the recepient so i don't see how that's relevant.
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Here is one such "clear" example and demonstration of that individual benefit:

brandnewtube.com

THIS IS WHAT THE PFIZER COVID VACCINE CAN DO......

Credit & Appreciation to @LinziLou for sending me this 12/1/21 ⁣The following is from Brant Griner's Facebook account, and contains videos of his mum after receiving Pfizers Covid19 shot. Here are h
brandnewtube.com brandnewtube.com
 
I can only see your final, closing point as utter, sheer, and gross naivety.

I am honestly not trying to be offensive. I'm just speaking purely honestly.
 
its really not. i have worked in pre clinical research (not on vaccines though, mostly cancer) so i know first hand how much testing of pharmaceuticals is required before you even get to human trials.
 
Cannabis must be bad, by that logic, or otherwise it would not be illegal to simply possess.

The mere fact alone, that cannabis, and ESPECIALLY harmless old hemp, sustainable source of clothing, rope, paper, fuel.... was ever illegal in the very first place, screams corrupt, controlling, oppressing lying establishment and society.
 
chinup said:
so can you tell me why my professional experience is wrong? where am i being grossly naive?
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Because ultimately, and sincerely with respect (ironically I concede), your professional education and training is one gigantic, intricate, thorough, comprehensive pack of lies and misinformation.

I thought of a new personal moto earlier, to fit current times- If I "need" to say something, there is no point.

We are really poles apart in our views and belief systems. No dispute or discord can I see reducing that gap.
 
it really is not. there are some crooked scientists cos scientists are a subset of people. the majority of research is not lies or misinformation- go back to the source, papers published in reputable journals rather than political spin through the media.

if you got seriously ill would you take your chance in that 'comprehensive pack of lies and misinformation' that is medical science? have you ever taken a medication developed in the past 50 years? if so then your position is untenable.
 
I just tested positive for COVID. Here are my symptoms so far (note that I am in my late 20s):

Day 1: light cough
Day 2: fever (measured at up to 38.6 °C / 101.5 °F but probably got a bit higher), headache, congestion at night
Day 3: milder fever, worsened headache and cough
Day 4 (today): fever seems to be gone, very light-headed (almost fainted when I first stood up this morning), continued cough

It's pretty comparable to having the flu plus the cough from a bad cold, but my current level of weakness makes me feel like my body has taken more of a beating than a typical flu (where I would feel a bit more functional than this once the fever subsides).

My partner also has it and has had similar symptoms, but has additionally almost completely lost her sense of smell.
 
Damn @S.J.B.
Hope you get feeling better mate.

Now, when you say headache. Is it more like a migraine type of headache? or like a pressure headache? The reason I ask is I have a slight hypochondriac problem.

Wishing you and your partner a speedy recovery !
 
D's said:
Damn @S.J.B.
Hope you get feeling better mate.

Now, when you say headache. Is it more like a migraine type of headache? or like a pressure headache? The reason I ask is I have a slight hypochondriac problem.

Wishing you and your partner a speedy recovery !
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Thanks!

I don't think I've ever had a migraine and I usually don't get headaches, so I'd have a hard time distinguishing types of headaches. It certainly had a sharp/stabbing pain component. I don't think there was a significant pressure component.
 
The Wizard of the Creek said:
Covid is weird, meaning you are only on day 4 and about day 7 or so is when many serious cases go to the hospital. Covid infection can have you feeling better one day and then the next day be down for the count.
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Oh yeah, I definitely haven't counted out the possibility that it may get worse again. Thankfully the odds of someone my age with COVID having to be hospitalized are very low (less than 1% for men between 20 and 29 and less than 2% for men between 30 and 39 in my jurisdiction). But you never know.
 
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