'Out of body' CEVS

[Chocolate-Salad]

Last night I had my first (with the exception of an allergy test and an intranasal trip that was short and lacking) experience with 2c-b which was spent with my partner. 33mg HBr salt for myself, 23mg for her. Boy it was fun, but also had me feeling jealous.
This was the fourth time we've tripped together. Three 4-ho-mipt experiences and now the 2c-b. Every single time she has had not only closed eye visuals but an ability to focus for only a few seconds and 'leave' her body and experience something where all of her senses are within a hallucination. Music was required but she was able to do this at will. She couldn't hear me unless I spoke loudly enough (sometimes I didn't even know she'd gone) but she would make slight movements in the real world such as squeezing my arm or hand. When she was there, she wouldn't know she had went somewhere. Kinda like a dream.

More information from wikipedia:

Level 5: Overriding physical perception
If inducing by drugs or mental disease, this is the point where it appears to the outside world that a person is either unconscious or insane. The internal CEV perceptions and think-it/feel-it perceptions become stronger than physical perceptions, and completely override and replace open-eye physical perceptions. This can be a potentially dangerous state if a person is still mobile while in a different imagined world, but by this time most people are motionless and not likely to do something hazardous to themselves or others.[5] This is the point where most hallucinogenic references say it is a good idea to have a "sitter" present to watch over the person using the chemicals, and keep them from accidentally harming themselves or others while deep into their own world.[citation needed]
This level can be entered from complete sensory deprivation, as experienced in an isolation tank, but even there it requires great relaxation.[6] [7]
According to lucid dreaming researcher Stephen LaBerge, perceptions can come from either the senses or imagination. A inhibitory system involving in the thalamus, likely involving serotonergic neurons, inhibits imaginary perceptions from becoming too activated so they turn into hallucinations. This system is inhibited during REM sleep, and the imagination can freely run into the perceptual systems. What happens at level 5 is likely that this system is inhibited, just like in REM sleep, by different causes like sensory deprivation, psychedelic drugs or meditative relaxation techniques.

I've only ever experienced this once the first time I've tripped on LSD. The fact that she's able to do it readily not only intrigues me but makes me jealous. If anybody has any tips on getting into this state more easily, then please shoot them. The closest I think I've come recently is while meditating on 4-ho-mipt mixed with MXE but I don't know if I plan on finding more MXE. I'd like to get more out of my experiences and make them more therapeutic.

 

[Solipsis]

Sensory deprivation..

 

[Swimmingdancer]

I find lucid dreaming and meditation techniques to help, for example the WILD technique or Wake Initiated Lucid Dream. Basically the goal with that technique is being able to pass from waking into a lucid dream with no lapse in consciousness. I found that with some practice I could use it to have an out of body experience, with or without drugs. It takes some work though and obviously isn't a guaranteed thing every time you attempt it, even with practice. Music and hypnosis helps, you can find out of body experience hypnosis recordings on Youtube.

 

[EarthBounded]

Chakra and Kundalini meditation, you will have to spend hours learning safe meditation before you can break it out in a trip

 

[RedRum OG]

I sort of had an experience like this first time smoking weed

I ended up in my bed, pitch black nighttime, listening to music through headphones. Closed my eyes and shit started to get good. I could see these pulsing lights outlining my body to the beat/pitch of music (synesthesia sorta) I could also sort of feel an electric tingling along where the lights were flowing, but it was more like "sensing" idk how to describe it, not totally "feeling". And the part that was strangest was it was "out of body" but i could still "sense" the lights flowing on my body, it was like My consciousness was floating a foot above my head, but still in contact with the rest of me. Lasted for 10 minutes straight.

Anyways, best psychedelic experience ever, CEV is my favorite, especially in total darkness. Never even come close to this level again even with acid, shrooms, dmt, or high dose weed edibles.

 

[xx001]

I have had oobe's with mxe and from variations on WILD lucid dreaming. I wouldn't expect 2c-b to give such an effect so she should consider herself lucky. I have had some powerful trips with it but nothing like you describe.

 

[Chocolate-Salad]

They were at an average dose too!
They were more than just cevs. She felt like she was somewhere in extreme detail. Places she said she's never been. Some places involved people. And like I said it was done at will. She doesn't practice meditation or anything of that sort and was able to go from geometric cevs to full blown dream state in 30 seconds.
She said that as a kid she'd put on headphones and imagine going places but psychedelics feel real. She's not able to control these, at least not yet.
I'd also lend the fact that she has nearly zero tolerance to this ability. These four trips were over a period of six months.
Since my imagination isn't nearly as gifted and I have tolerance issues ill have to look into the tips you guys gave. I don't have access to anything like a sensory deprivation tank but I can try a bath some time soon. I'll also start practicing meditation but I don't have anyone to guide me.
It would also help to take a hiatus to bring the magic back.

If anybody has related experiences or more info please share. This really interests me.

 

[xx001]

Maybe it was brought on by synesthesia. Music tends to enhance this and closing the eyes will intensify any visual psychedelic.

 

[Chocolate-Salad]

Maybe it was brought on by synesthesia. Music tends to enhance this and closing the eyes will intensify any visual psychedelic.

This probably had a lot to do with it. Not only the music but since 2c-b enhances tactile sensations our cuddling could have had a synesthesic effect as well. I remember her saying she couldn't do it without the music.

/edit
I feel tactile is enhanced greatly with 4-ho-mipt as well.

 

[gymstud]

Sounds like what happens to me when peaking in the dark in bed on cb I slip of into another reality
I'm prety sure I'm awake but its not like just watching visuals I stop being were I am and what I am some times there enteties there
I am a lucid dreamer and I've taken a very large range of drugs since starting 16 years ago

The strangest was I felt as if I was multi colourd plastasene made into mery-go-round and I was somehow spewing my self inside out throught my "mouth as I turned and there were zombies kissimg eatch other and having sex

I can snap out of it to a extend by roling over to face the other side of the bedroom

 

[EarthBounded]

This probably had a lot to do with it. Not only the music but since 2c-b enhances tactile sensations our cuddling could have had a synesthesic effect as well. I remember her saying she couldn't do it without the music.

/edit
I feel tactile is enhanced greatly with 4-ho-mipt as well.

Synesthesia has nothing to do with outer body experiences... I did a full blown project report in college on this condition seeing as I have it.. It effects CEVs alot but has noting to do with leaving the body this is completely spiritual. Infact Synesthesia has alot to do with the physical body not the soul. It is raw science at the end of the day.

The OP said this- She said that as a kid she'd put on headphones and imagine going places but psychedelics feel real.

It just shows your girlfriend has a pretty creative unique spirit.

I would consider some other drugs for leaving the body however we cannot make recommendations so do some research.

 

[Sepher]

Breath control techniques, mindfulness of breathing type meditation lying in bed, dimly lit room with eyes closed will tend to get me there with some psyches at the right dose, some psyches do feel almost dissociative. Just try and slow everything right down and focus on something that doesn't need any thought like just counting off breaths and try and engaging with the visual stuff that develops. Can get there with ease with 25I, single point of consciousness from which everything springs with you at the centre of it flowing into it and dissolving into, flying / stretching / twisting / dissolving OOBE type effects. Would be disappointed if I didn't get that.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Synesthesia has nothing to do with outer body experiences... I did a full blown project report in college on this condition seeing as I have it.. It effects CEVs alot but has noting to do with leaving the body this is completely spiritual. Infact Synesthesia has alot to do with the physical body not the soul. It is raw science at the end of the day.

I don't agree. Synesthesia in and of itself may not automatically cause an OBE, but for me there is definitely a correlation and some of the most intense OBEs and CEVs I have had ocurred when I was experiencing the most intense synethesia. I don't see how you can state that synethesia is about the physical body and not the soul as though it were fact. What even is the soul? How can you possibly know that?

 

[EarthBounded]

I don't agree. Synesthesia in and of itself may not automatically cause an OBE, but for me there is definitely a correlation and some of the most intense OBEs and CEVs I have had ocurred when I was experiencing the most intense synethesia. I don't see how you can state that synethesia is about the physical body and not the soul as though it were fact. What even is the soul? How can you possibly know that?

All forms of synesthesia are related to physical senses and aspects of our body. Plus synesthesia is completely misinterpreted within the drug world. Synesthesia relates to ones physical physce and the crossing of the physical senses, especially relating to how information is processed. Synesthesia is a medical condition it is by now means a route to escape the body, I promise you this. It is very educational and great to study but it is throwing this thread and the OP off completely.

Plus most psychedelic experiences with synesthesia are no where near the magic of someone born with the gift.

I will say it again. OBEs can be achieved with Proper meditation and dosage, Chakra and Kundalini meditation will also help define the soul I will not get into it right now however there are usually 7 exterior non-physical body's (fields of energy) associated with this meditation technique.

I also highly recommend taking something produced with Love, I could never find myself in a 2C-B high, enjoyable yes, full blown OBE not happening with me. I need to know I am completely safe when leaving with a High dose of certain drugs that are safe when used correctly and researched.

Can someone with the actual condition be more prone to OBEs . YES However this is such a small small amount of the population that actually has the condition synesthesia still being newly researched in the eyes of science. The term synesthesia should not just be thrown around in drug forums.

Just because someone has CEVs doesn't mean it is in fact synesthesia.

Tripping is such a minute fact of Synesthesia. Honestly bringing up drugs and spiritual experiences is pretty frowned upon in scientific forums regarding the condition synesthesia.

I guess I should say is there some possibility synesthesia can be associated with OBEs yes, I would be ignorant not to say that. However I can almost promise you are on the wrong path.

I have researched this condition for 3 years with a Neuro-science major by my side who personally visited actual patients.

It is a correlation between 2 physical experiences.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

^I don't want to get in a huge debate about synthesia, since I'm not sure if the OP is even very interested or not (?), but I have to respectfully disagree with you. I really don't think one can dismiss Alexander Shulgin's and Chocolate-Salad's suggestions about a correlation between synethesia and OBEs as merely coincidental and irrelevant. I think it's very interesting.

Synesthesia is a medical condition it is by now means a route to escape the body, I promise you this.

I am not sure what you mean by this?

Plus most psychedelic experiences with synesthesia are no where near the magic of someone born with the gift.

According to who?

Edward M. Hubbard, PhD, says in his review:

The experiences of congenital synesthetes are typically generic, including color and movement, but not complex scenes or visualizations. Unlike these synesthetic experiences, the experiences generated by psychedelics are often complex, including visualizations of animals and complex scenes.
[source].

The term synesthesia should not just be thrown around in drug forums.

Thrown around? People are just using the term to mean the experience of stimulation of one sense (or in some cases it's used to include parts of the body/cognitive functions/etc) producing a perception of a sense impression relating to another sense. There is no rule that the term should only be used to describe a constant condition that is present from birth and without the use of drugs. I have tasted colours or sounds, felt sounds as a physical sensation, or had auditory effects associated with colours (among many other effects). I get synethesia both with and without the use of drugs myself, but it is not constant (or perhaps I am just so used to it I don't always notice it).

If someone wants to say it's a spiritual experience for them, how can you dispute that?

Just because someone has CEVs doesn't mean it is in fact synesthesia.

No one said that anywhere. No one said CEVs are automatically synethesia or even that synethesia directly causes OBEs.

Honestly bringing up drugs and spiritual experiences is pretty frowned upon in scientific forums regarding the condition synesthesia.

Bringing up drugs and spiritual experiences in general is "pretty frowned upon" in mainstream science, that doesn't mean those who frown upon it are right. Modern science is inherently at odds with spirituality, and the use of psychedelic drugs is a touchy subject for socio-political reasons. However things are changing and there are more and more scientists/researchers who are bold enough to step out of this mold.

Some articles from respected Journals:

The visual content of out-of-body experiences (OBEs) has received little attention but a number of theories of OBEs include implicit predictions regarding the determinants of this phenomenological feature. Hypnagogic imagery and unusual sleep experiences, weak synaesthesia and preference for employing object and spatial visual imagic cognitive styles were psychometrically measured along with the incidence of self-reported OBEs and the absence or presence of visual content therein, in a sample of individuals drawn from the general population. Seventy percent of individuals who had experienced an OBE reported that the experience included some form of visual content. These individuals exhibited greater scores on the measures of preference for object visual imagic cognition and weak synaesthesia than those who reported an absence of visual content during their OBE. Subsequent analysis revealed that the measure of weak synaesthesia was the stronger discriminator of the two cohorts. The results are discussed within the context of the synaesthetic model of visual phenomenology during OBEs. [source]

In this paper, we reflect on three long-standing problems: The relationship between the physical worlds and the perceived world, accounting for individual differences in the way in which we perceive the world around us, and the problem of understanding other minds. We begin by examining the relationship between synaesthesia and hallucinations, as well as
between hallucinations and normal perception, attempting to show in both cases that the phenomena in question may share more in common than previously assumed. We consider the plausibility of a functional analysis of synaesthesia and examine the mechanisms of the different types of ordinary and extraordinary perceptions. We propose that synaesthesia-like mechanisms may underlie a range of perceptual phenomena and cognitive functions and demonstrate the usefulness of such an approach given the ubiquity of synaesthesia-like mental processes in human cognition. [source]

The literatures that touch on synaesthesias-scientific, art-historical, literary, phenomenological, ethnographic, psychodelic-vary widely in their definitions, their interpretations, and their degree of comfort with the first-person, subjective nature of experiential reports. The significances given to synaesthetic experiences are similarly wide-ranging. This paper explores the relationships among synaesthesias, psychedelic experience, and language, highlighting Terence McKenna's synaesthetic language experiences on DMT and magic mushrooms. We describe the complexities of creating and performing with the Synestheater, a system that provides the means to weave together, in multiple mappings, two or more complex visual, aural, and linguistic systems in live performance. [source]

Synaesthesia is considered a rare perceptual capacity, and one that is not capable of cultivation. However, meditators report the experience quite commonly, and in questionnaire surveys, respondents claimed to experience synaesthesia in 35% of meditation retreatants, in 63% of a group of regular meditators, and in 86% of advanced teachers. These rates were significantly higher than in nonmeditator controls, and displayed significant correlations with measures of amount of meditation experience. A review of ancient texts found reports suggestive of synaesthesia in advanced meditators from India and China. These findings suggest that synaesthesia may be cultivated by meditation, and that laboratory studies of meditators could be rewarding. [source]

I have tons more on this if anyone is interested

 

[EarthBounded]

I do not want to get into a debate either, maybe I will start another thread in a different category. Not all your sources touch on OBEs just one and it kind of displays Synesthesia and OBEs as two different things happening at the same time. I am not saying that Synesthesia isn't related to psychedelics it is I am aware of this, actually I have had some synesthetic experiences on 2C-B but I wouldn't give synesthesia credit for my OBEs, synesthetic experience and chasing an OBE are two completely different things, Synesthesia is a medical condition in which the physical body is effected, an OBE is spiritual.

Every single form of this condition has an X------>Y Equation.

For example Grapheme-------> Color

There is absolutley no condition that has any sort of spiritual experience in the Y turnout of the equation.

There is no Music------> Spiritual experience / OBE

Every result is a physical sense.

We could have a massive debate, I just didn't think this was 100% appropriate for the OP, I believe many things would help him find an OBE, even if his girlfriend has more synesthetic traits that has nothing to do with the OP and OBEs can be achieved in many ways.

I did not find this to be a proper explanation or help to the OP. It is cool to learn about though don't get me wrong.

So what which one of the six senses would even lead to an OBE would be my question.

 

[Chocolate-Salad]

Yes I'm interested but my laptop is pretty broken right now making it difficult to quote and write decent responses. Besides that I wanted to reserve my opinion. But..
Using her experience as an example she wasn't able to induce the state without music. This makes me lean more towards stimuli having an impact on both being able to go into the state and the state itself.
Besides that the tactile sensations played a role in whatever she was experiencing in the dream state without even being aware that she was grasping the pillows, blankets, me, etc.
My opinion is solely based on experience and is completely subjective as is much of what you may experience in a psychedelic state.

/edit
And I have been in this state once before on my first ever dose of lsd. I didn't have to practice anything, I think it had a lot to do with set, setting, and zero tolerance. This is why I'm seeking a break from psychedelics. Although meditation may assist, I think there are a lot of factors that come into play.

I'd still love to read more experiences and any more ideas to get there more easily. There's lot that goes on and I'd like to be able to get the most of the time I have in nirvana.

I cannot wait until spring hits full force. Im going to wait until the day of a nice thunderstorm and hopefully 'that' will be the perfect storm.

 

[EarthBounded]

^I don't want to get in a huge debate about synthesia, since I'm not sure if the OP is even very interested or not (?), but I have to respectfully disagree with you. I really don't think one can dismiss Alexander Shulgin's and Chocolate-Salad's suggestions about a correlation between synethesia and OBEs as merely coincidental and irrelevant. I think it's very interesting.


I am not sure what you mean by this?


According to who?

Edward M. Hubbard, PhD, says in his review:


Thrown around? People are just using the term to mean the experience of stimulation of one sense (or in some cases it's used to include parts of the body/cognitive functions/etc) producing a perception of a sense impression relating to another sense. There is no rule that the term should only be used to describe a constant condition that is present from birth and without the use of drugs. I have tasted colours or sounds, felt sounds as a physical sensation, or had auditory effects associated with colours (among many other effects). I get synethesia both with and without the use of drugs myself, but it is not constant (or perhaps I am just so used to it I don't always notice it).

If someone wants to say it's a spiritual experience for them, how can you dispute that?


No one said that anywhere. No one said CEVs are automatically synethesia or even that synethesia directly causes OBEs.


Bringing up drugs and spiritual experiences in general is "pretty frowned upon" in mainstream science, that doesn't mean those who frown upon it are right. Modern science is inherently at odds with spirituality, and the use of psychedelic drugs is a touchy subject for socio-political reasons. However things are changing and there are more and more scientists/researchers who are bold enough to step out of this mold.

Some articles from respected Journals:









I have tons more on this if anyone is interested

I am coming back to this article after a week or two because it bugs me how much Synesthesia is wrongly interperted, thanks to the Fabulous Krystle Cole I was able to make the correct correlation with this thread.

Everyone is highly confused with Cross-Sensory occurrences

Wikipedia- "While cross-sensory metaphors (e.g., "loud shirt," "bitter wind" or "prickly laugh") are sometimes described as "synesthetic", true neurological synesthesia is involuntary"

This directly correlates with OBEs and CEVs. Cross-sensory is far more common, and does not mean you have the condition/gift of Synesthesia, and this shouldn't be assumed or thrown around as a suggestion like I said before it is completely different.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Everyone is highly confused with Cross-Sensory occurrences

Wikipedia- "While cross-sensory metaphors (e.g., "loud shirt," "bitter wind" or "prickly laugh") are sometimes described as "synesthetic", true neurological synesthesia is involuntary"

^I think you should re-read that. They are talking about metaphors. Saying "that is a very loud orange shirt you are wearing Bob" is not synesthesia, the person does not actually "hear" the colour, it's an expression. You are taking that sentence out of context. It's a poorly written sentence (what can you expect from Wikipedia 8)) so I don't blame you for misunderstanding.

I don't know why I am bothering to keep responding though since you don't seem to read or respond to much of what I've already said on the topic.

 

[2cAlex]

I had something like this before, but it was off a low dose I did recently that was really intense for w.e reason, never had this off higher dosages i've done.