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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Other drugs to use to get through opiate withdrawal?

I'm currently prescribed 600 mg's per day (2 x 300 mg/s)

You can't go over 750 mg of Tramadol? Or 750 mg Pregabalin?

I can't go over 750-1000 mg. of pregabalin or if I do start to feel very strange effects: muscle jerks, dizzinness, stuttering, stomach aches. In fact, last time I thought I was going to seize. And it has only happened to me when I take large doses of pregabalin and tramadol (> 400 mg.). Tramadol alone and in equally large doses has never given me these problems. I think there's a paradoxical effect of pregabalin when you're taking very high doses and I have heard of people seizure, but it's rare.
 
I can't go over 750-1000 mg. of pregabalin or if I do start to feel very strange effects: muscle jerks, dizzinness, stuttering, stomach aches. In fact, last time I thought I was going to seize. And it has only happened to me when I take large doses of pregabalin and tramadol (> 400 mg.). Tramadol alone and in equally large doses has never given me these problems. I think there's a paradoxical effect of pregabalin when you're taking very high doses and I have heard of people seizure, but it's rare.
Yeah, when my Pregabalin tolerance was lower - if I dosed 600 mg or more in one dose I used to get the twitches (I think they're called Myoclonic jerks..?) and get extremely dizzy etc.. My tolerance now is almost complete! I foolishly tried 2400 mg of Pregabalin yesterday and hardly even noticed it. (I would advise against taking doses that large)

Tramadol is well known for it's seizure risk...

I've never been quite sure how much other anti-convulsant drugs actually reduced the chances of seizing on Tramadol?
 
Yeah, when my Pregabalin tolerance was lower - if I dosed 600 mg or more in one dose I used to get the twitches (I think they're called Myoclonic jerks..?) and get extremely dizzy etc.. My tolerance now is almost complete! I foolishly tried 2400 mg of Pregabalin yesterday and hardly even noticed it. (I would advise against taking doses that large)

Tramadol is well known for it's seizure risk...

I've never been quite sure how much other anti-convulsant drugs actually reduced the chances of seizing on Tramadol?

You're correct man. These are called myoclonic jerks. So maybe I took too much idk :unsure: . The problem with pregabalin is that it takes a long time to work. So I start redosing when it noticed no effect at 60 minutes, but I think I should wait a lot longer than that. Also, I once heard (I think here) that taking it on an empty stomach and with lemon juice helped to metabolize faster. I don't know if it's true or just horseshit hahahaha.

Yes, tramadol is well known for its risk of seizures. However, in 2 years of abuse and addiction (this last year taking MONSTROUS DOSES >1000 mg.) I've never suffered one. I know you never say never but even taking 1700 mg. in a few hours without any anti-convulsants I had no problems. * Although it's not at all a behavior that I would recommend.

Benzos increase the seizure threshold and protect you a bit more from the seizure risks of tramadol. I currently take clonazepam (0.5 mg) and when I take a too large a dose of tramadol I take 1 mg.
 
I'm currently prescribed 600 mg's per day (2 x 300 mg/s)

You can't go over 750 mg of Tramadol? Or 750 mg Pregabalin?
Tramadol has a (relatively) low threshold for overdosing (400mg is the upper limit typically prescribed) which can manifest in seizures (as opposed to more typical opiates such as respiratory depression).

As for pregabalin (lyrica) and gabapentin - they are closely related. ( Originally they were used to reduce seizures but were later found to be effective for treating neuropathic pain. In theory they MIGHT act as a seizure protector (if you're taking a LOT of Tramadol )

but I'm not qualified to assess that.

Many people find gabapentin virtually identical to lyrica (pregabalin) except in dosage, but some truly prefer lyrica. Either way, if you want off the lyrica because you enjoy it a bit too much, gabapentin could be a bridge for you to ease off the lyrica and then taper off slowly and gently.

Going cold turkey is harsh, and sometimes it really is physically dangerous AND IT IS LESS successful --so do a little planning and this won't have to be full on torture.
Keep us posted and hang in there.
 
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I know this thread is an old one, but it's been getting some activity so I'll answer anyhow...

Has anybody tried DXM to detox themselves from opiates? I'm about 2 years clean from opiates now, but I used DXM to detox from heroin/fentanyl and it worked wonders for me. It worked so well that I'm shocked I don't see it mentioned more! I had already had a little experience with dxm, so I usually took it to the upper 3rd plateau, but my w/d symptoms significantly eased even at a lower 2nd plateau dose. I even chose that over a medical detox the last few times I detoxed.

I was laying in bed kicking and tossing and turning and sweating, had no money, no car, and no hope of any of that changing anytime soon. I had a few boxes of DXM sitting there and I though to myself, "Since high doses (4th plateau) can bring about an out of body experience, would it even be POSSIBLE to feel the detox if I weren't in my body anymore?" I only had enough for a mid-third plateau dose available, so I didn't leave my body or anything, but I don't remember feeling ANY detox symptoms once I got to around 2nd plateau-ish.

Surgeon general warning: DXM can be rough, especially if you don't have any experience with it, so jumping to 3rd plateau is probably not wise. You can always take more. Most importantly, DXM can be harmful or fatal if mixed with the wrong substances. If you are currently taking any medication (anti-depressants especially), you should definitely do some research before attempting it. I don't even know if it works for anybody other than me, so ymmv. For me, though, it was my #1 choice for detoxing.
 
A very large amount of weed was a little bit of a help also a good supply of loperamide for the back and maxolon for spews.... Valium was also a savior
 
There's kratom. It would be a substitute. RSHO Rick Simpson Hash oil is a cannabis alternative to ween off. Ayahuasca or Ibogaine therapy helps a fair number of those never have cravings again and alleviate symptoms of withdrawal. Psychonautwiki.org might have some guides or prolly erowid.org.
 
Tramadol has a (relatively) low threshold for overdosing (400mg is the upper limit typically prescribed) which can manifest in seizures (as opposed to more typical opiates such as respiratory depression).

As for pregabalin (lyrica) and gabapentin - they are closely related. ( Originally they were used to reduce seizures but were later found to be effective for treating neuropathic pain. In theory they MIGHT act as a seizure protector (if you're taking a LOT of Tramadol )

but I'm not qualified to assess that.

Many people find gabapentin virtually identical to lyrica (pregabalin) except in dosage, but some truly prefer lyrica. Either way, if you want off the lyrica because you enjoy it a bit too much, gabapentin could be a bridge for you to ease off the lyrica and then taper off slowly and gently.

Going cold turkey is harsh, and sometimes it really is physically dangerous AND IT IS LESS successful --so do a little planning and this won't have to be full on torture.
Keep us posted and hang in there.

In my experience, high-doses of tramadol and pregabalin it's a nasty combination. I felt a very weird feeling, anogarsmia, nausea, headache and several myoclonic jerks. I was already prepared to seizure but I was lucky not to have it. That has happened to me twice always while taking and pregabalin and tramadol. And that I have taken tramadol in very, very high doses.
 
I don't remember much of those days. Basically I was high all day. :LOL: But it was a high dose of pregabalin (1000-1500 mg per day on my worst days). And with 200-400 mg. of tramadol I felt spectacular. :love: One day I took lorazepam and man they were too downers at one time. :ROFLMAO: But it wasn't took pregabalin every day. I believe 1-3 days a week. And in June and July it was a lot less days, so it's strange that I have developed such a high tolerance.

Do you think there is something like a chronic tolerance? or can it just be something psychological? Maybe my mind is predisposed that it won't work.
I believe it... i have to start off at large doses bc of gastric bypass n my tolerance. Ex. I have to take 6-8 Benadryl to sleep, My mom can take a half of a pill n be knocked out.. certain drugs don't work on me either, morphine, fentanyl methadone.... n another thing, u said tramadol gave false readings for PCP, were u joking bc i got tested to get my meds, n she said I had pcp n I'm in shock bc idk where I would even get it..ofcourse she thought I was lying but all I had was tramadol n my oxy prescription.. pissed me off bc them oxy were for my back..... I do know they make it different now bc now if I take to many I itch just like I do hydro
 
Alright so a little side note, I am fairly experienced with opiate withdrawal, I've gone through it about 5 times from heroin to oxy to suboxone.

But every time I've detoxed it's been in a rehab or jail, this time I'll be on the street.

A little back story: my grandfather just passed away and he has $300,000 in his will for me. But one of the clauses is I must remain opiate free to receive it. I'm going to be drug tested weekly for a year and each week I pass the opiate screenings i will receive a portion of the money.

So by next Friday, and for the rest of this year I need to be clean from opiates. The lawyer told me he won't pull any strings for me but that my grandfather told him he didn't care about being positive for other drugs.

So this is the last day I'll be using heroin, and i work full time so I need to try and be functional for work without dope.

A few questions,

Could MDMA help with motivation and depression if i took it for a couple days of withdrawals?

What about cocaine?

And what is the best benzo for opiate withdrawal, I should be able to get my hands on Xanax, but I figured Valium would be better cause of the longer half life
So I've been through withdrawal more times than I can count. It always sucks. There are two things I've found that help the most. The first, anti-diarrheal meds will stop the whole upset stomach shitting your brains out part of it but you have to take enough of them. When you take a high dose of that med it starts to act like an opiate and giving you some relief. The second thing I found, and thus had worked the best, weed. I don't like weed. I don't like the taste, I don't like the smell, I didn't like the feeling it gave me. Then I started experimenting with different strains and learned that I just needed to find thr right kind for myself. I tried smoking weed coming off of opiate and being a pretty hard user, I didn't feel a thing. I mean none, nothing, no withdrawals at all! Maybe it was the stain (White99) maybe it's because I never smoke weed and have a low tolerance? I know that "The White" strain is supposed to be pretty strong and if say that's true because I've also tried White Dream and it knocked me in my ass. Seriously though, get enough for 3 days and just sleep (and eat!) it off! It's the best way I've ever come off of an opiate. Good luck!
 
Here are my favorite withdrawals aids, in order of preference:

Lyrica (pregabalin) - This is a miracle, it will not only block the vast majority of withdrawal, it will make you feel awesome. I detoxed with my friend recently and we took this for a week and that week was awesome, we rented a cabin in the woods and had adventures and laughed and played music and most of the time I forgot I was even withdrawing at all. After the week we stopped taking it since it is addictive itself, and the second week was much rougher, but I was past the worst so it was bearable. It made all the difference.

Gabapentin - This is just a slightly less powerful Lyrica. It works almost as well, but produces less of its own euphoric high. Dosing 300mg every 30 minutes until you stop feeling so shitty works wonders. Both Lyrica and gabapentin work exceptionally well against light to moderate withdrawal. I have never tried them against severe withdrawal, as I didn't know about them when I've experienced very bad withdrawal. But these are amazing because, provided you don't have previous dependence to them, you can take them for 1-2 weeks and avoid dependence, and bypass opiate withdrawal for the most part.

Loperamide (immodium, anti-diarrheal meds) - This is actually an opioid (it doesn't just mimic one, it is one), which has a hard time crossing the blood brain barrier, but does in high doses. Taking the recommended dosage helps by eliminating the shits, so even its stated use on the box is a big help. But if you take a large dose, for me 40mg is the minimum but for severe withdrawal you may need to take 60mg, maybe up to 80mg, it will almost entirely block withdrawal. Some things to note, it takes 3-4 hours to really take effect so people often think it isn't working. It then lasts for about a full 24 hours. For me, it severely dries out my insides, not only constipation, but it even sometimes makes it hurt to swallow food,, like my esophagus is too dry to work properly. I always take a handful (like 10 pills) stool softeners, and eat a fiber supplement (my favorite is psyllium husk, that stuff is miraculous) when I take it. Otherwise my insides feel bad. Also, loperamide is toxic to the heart in very high dosages, so you should never exceed 80mg. Plenty of people have died from it, especially chronic high dosing. Also, keep in mind that it can produce its own dependence. it is an opiate, so it may prolong your withdrawal a bit, and if you take it too long, you will get dependent on it, and some BLers have told me that the withdrawal from it lasts for a really long time and is terrible, like methadone. Basically, loperamide is a sure thing to block most withdrawal symptoms, but it's riskier since it is an opiate itself and it is toxic in high doses. Also, it doesn't really produce any euphoria so it doesn't make you feel happy, just not miserable. Lyrica/gabapentin will help the depression a lot more, in my experience.

Kratom - This is also an opioid, though the recovery industry and places that sell it would like you to believe it isn't. It's a partial agonist of the delta and mu opioid receptors and is basically switching one addiction for another, but kratom is easier to get off of. Also if you just dose it as little as possible and stop as soon as you can stand to, you can probably escape getting dependent on it. it works pretty well to feel better, but not as well as any of the ones above, in my experience, if you are experiencing severe withdrawal. It definitely won't make you feel high, it will just make you feel more normal. Without opiate tolerance, it is a decent drug, which can sometimes be great. I started on opiates with kratom, way back in 2003. My early kratom experiences were among my most euphoric of all drug experiences, seriously they were amazing. But once I blew out my opiate receptors from years of constant kratom use and then harder opiates, I've never been able to get much from it besides a light positive feeling, and near-instant withdrawals because of the kindling effect.

Clonidine - I have actually never tried it, but people consider it a staple for withdrawal, as it basically just calms your nervous system down. Basically it calms the physical symptoms of anxiety, so it lets your body relax some. it definitely helps (apparently), but doesn't remove withdrawal by any means.
 
I've been told multiple times that ketamine is a major help with opiate withdrawal. It hits a lot of the same receptors that opiates do. Ketamine is also a fairly addictive and destructive drug though so be careful.
 
Ketamine doesn't hit any of the opioid receptors, actually, but it does help, for sure. Mostly because it dissociates you from your body. Ketamine is addictive in the mental sense, for some people. It's pretty amazing as an escapism drug. It's not physically addictive, though. But I will say that if you're a person for whom dissociatives like ketamine are addictive, you might find yourself deep into a new drug problem. Some people absolutely fiend for it. Personally I like it but never feel like doing it very often. Unlike opiates, which I have no self control over. Or very little anyway.
 
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