Originally posted by 1cheeselova (4-FA as a long term cure for depression)

[The King of Beans]

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~Never

I personally have cured my depression using 4-FA. I used it every other day for about 2 weeks then stopped. Ever since then I have felt happy and normal again getting my life back. It is amazing. I knew the 4-FA was to credit as I had already been taking 5-HTP for some time (about 4 months) and that didnt really do anything for me. 4-FA has just as much if not more potential than MDMA does for curing long term depression. I also do NOT think the drug is neurotoxic if used correctly. I mean, it cured my depression I got from abusing MDMA/speed in the past. Below is the post- (Please mods, have some decency and leave this open..4-FA is a miracle drug with virtually no bad side effects)


Well, since I love having a good talk about interesting subjects while speeded up (not on 4-FA actually). I'd like to hear everyone's opinion on the possibility of 4-FA being used as medicine currently in its unscheduled status or possibly in the legitimate medical field as a schedule II substance. My experience with 4-FA or its relatives is limited. I had ordered a gram for just fun for myself and dosed 1 by myself, then used a chunk at a party, then dosed once more by myself. I'll try to keep it brief but heres some detail to show how I think the possible medicinal benefits are greater for this amp then any I've tried in my experience.


1st experience:

Had a gram, totally unworried about taking too much since the dosage range is generous. Eyeballed 50mg, ate it. It was not only the oddest RC I had tasted but it was the oddest taste I have experience in my life. First a yummy sweet, thinking that maybe they actually gave me sugar? Then it turned into a sickening sweet, then did a U-turn into a very very bitter. After probably 15-25 minutes I started feeling the normal effects from d-amp expect it had a slight twist of empathy reminding him of the first time he tried d-amp except a less head euphoria and a more empathetic love feel. It was enjoyable, not as motivated to do specific tasks but its still present. I really just feel more like talking about whatever. Cheered my mom up on the phone and redose 50mg, so we talked for a WHILE. It was atleast 2 and 1/2 hours so it was approx. 3 hours since the first dose. I felt the euphoria fade and empathy weaken, but the stimulation stayed. I dose 30mg more along with eating approx. 30mg 4-MEC, this was fun but completely different. I had heavy intro and extro feelings. Talking to girls gave me the feeling that I wanted to be all lovey duvey but also a cocaine like I-want-to-fuck-till-the-world-ends feeling. Not medicinal.
Well that wasn't brief so I'll try harder for these two, ha.


2nd exp. at the party:

I had met a new RC knowledgable friend at a party. We did some lines of 4-MEC (much better than oral), he tried a line of 4-FA even after I warned him. That was the only line he did. He then whipped out his rig, and declined the offer. He didn't try any oral route so his opinion of 4-FA may be biased but, he said that through both routes 4-FA wasn't really adding anything to him, all he felt was 4-MEC. He felt slight empethic effects but, otherwise all of the cocaine like effects I had felt earlier. So i think 4-FA might be overall best orally since it's IN and IV uses are not very profoundly increased, possibly.


3rd experience:

This is when thoughts of medical use come about. Good oral bio, not very euphoric overall, and has concentrating, empathetic, and helps connects to other humans. I used the last, what must've been approx. 75mg. I felt a slight buzzing feel-good sensation like before but didn't "climb" to the point it did before. Nearly identical empathetic values and concentration values seem to actually be closer to d-amp. I think tolerance was the source of euphoria loss, and possibly the good feelings where "blocking" concentration traits? Overall not a recreational experience in complete honesty. I did homework, smoked weed (which the 4-FA didn't take away from at all), and fell asleep.

So to highlight the reasons I think this is a key candidate:
Not orgasmic when snorted(very painful actually) or IV'd
Has properties to help ADD
Has properties to help fear of social interaction. (I feel like due to the almost complete lack of come-up anxiety, and jitters would candidate replacing benzos. No withdrawals anyone?)
Can assist in emotional connect to human beings, say after a traumatic experience or social exclusion
Tolerance can possibly bring out ADD assisting factors, would definitively need to be tested

I think im going to see if some friends would be willing to test low dosages over a period of time to see if they the above effects apply to them, and to make sure their are no toxic effects. If not I may start legitimately self medicating my A.D.D, and my inability to properly empathize in certain situations.

Sorry if I rambled too much, or typed words incorectly, i'll be going over it soon. Let me know what you think.

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

4-FA is not a topic we cover in PD, PD->OD.

 

[Sprout]

Haloamphetamines are notorious for long term neurotoxicity via over-production of serontonin. Given the current medical model of depression (lowered serontonin is the main factor in depression) the last thing you need is damaged receptors on a permanent basis.

 

[coelophysis]

It sounds like a really bad idea to be taking this every other day. If you're feeling good now it definitely will catch up to you. And then you will be feeling the exact opposite of anti-depressed.
I would save something like 4-fa for special occasions and limit your usage to once per month if I were you.

 

[Sprout]

Also, given the legality of amph substitutes in many places, I presume this is purchased from a dealer? Hence; who knows what's truly in your 4-FA without a GC/MS? What happens when your supply runs out? Stick to medically proven AD, at least you know what's actually in them.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

I would not call something a "cure" if you have to keep taking it, and have only taken it 3 times. And these type of RC are not safe.

Also I am confused, was the King of Beans just quoting a post that someone else previously posted?

 

[ErgicMergic]

Abusing empactogens/empathogens that artificially increase levels of serotonin will ultimately screw you over hardcore, and make your depression and anxiety much worse than starting.

Instead, if you like the serotonin feel, what about an occasional LSD trip to learn more about yourself and what is causing your depression? This way you can tackle it head on and modify your life instead of reveling in momentary hedonism with 4-FA, then crash landing into the same, harsh reality?

 

[The King of Beans]

Funny how no one agrees. I havent taken the 4-FA for a while and I still feel great. Sure I felt a little depressed the day after stopping (And in betweeen uses) But now that my brain has had time to heal itself and regenerate the serotonin, it's come back nice and fresh! I stand by what I say...Im not just magically going to get depressed one day and have my serotonin go away. Where's the science behind that? Its proven that receptors grow back in larger numbers, once they are depleted. The problem with MDMA is that it is neurotoxic in high doses and the receptors do not grow back as thick. This is what left me moody and simply wacked out for years and years. Now since discovering the 4-FA I feel normal again. And I never need to take the 4-FA again. I agree if I were to abuse the 4-FA too much that wouldnt be a good thing. But I only did 3 grams total. That's it. It definitely helped to refresh my serotonin to grow back normally. Its a miracle drug if you ask me.

PS- The other mod is the one that moved it to PD. Not sure why. But that is why I chose to post it here. I dont think that mod knew wtf he was doing.

Abusing empactogens/empathogens that artificially increase levels of serotonin will ultimately screw you over hardcore, and make your depression and anxiety much worse than starting.

Instead, if you like the serotonin feel, what about an occasional LSD trip to learn more about yourself and what is causing your depression? This way you can tackle it head on and modify your life instead of reveling in momentary hedonism with 4-FA, then crash landing into the same, harsh reality?

I absolutely hate to trip now. Ive pretty much grown out of that. I also used to be a daily and weekly shroom user. I agree they are good for enlightment and depression (But while you're going through the trip, it can be a depressing HELL) I no longer need to use psychedelics. I am far past that stage. What I needed was a physical drug that would be able to regenerate my serotonin (or better yet help my body to do it) LSD does not do this.

I think most of you guys missed the fact that I DONT do 4-FA anymore. The effects of curing my depression have been long term. Its not like Im on some afterglow. I admitted I felt a little depressed the days following the 4-FA use. But once my brain regenerated itself, it is fresh and better than ever! What doesnt kill you will make you stronger. Good example here.

And the amazing part is that I am not the only one saying this. There are other reports of 4-FA curing people's depression.

4-FA is not a topic we cover in PD, PD->OD.

Thanks Never for not being so uptight like the other mods. They just get off on abusing their power and closing people's posts for no reason.

 

[6apbhmm]

Didn't even it read the whole post to know this is loads of nonsense. RC amphetamine as a cure for depression, yeeeeeah sure. It WILL be worse if you keep doing it, its a fun drug, wit side effects, nothing miraculous.

Im normally a calm person but I feel I need to be aggressive on this - this is harm reduction forum and I believe you are doing the exact opposite by posting things like this. Whats next, recommending heroin for loneliness?

 

[ErgicMergic]

^ Don't get your panties in a bunch and actually read this thread before replying...

OP, that's amazing. So this RC amphetamine basically acted as an adaptogen on a neuronal level, "fixing" your serotonin deficiency? I find that hard to believe. Maybe what happened is that it was almost like another psychedelic trip to you, but since it is basically an amphetamine with extra serotonin (extra memory formations over amphetamine), you forced your brain to "learn" to be happy again, and naturally overcame depression after the trip.

Were you open minded and willing to change before going in to the experience, or were you just looking to "get high," like most people doing drugs like this?

I've heard of people becoming a lot happier after doing MDMA just once or twice, and not abusing it, as they learned new ways of thinking, like psychedelics.

 

[coelophysis]

Thanks Never for not being so uptight like the other mods. They just get off on abusing their power and closing people's posts for no reason.

We can always count on you to jump down peoples throats can't we? How the heck is he being uptight? He's doing his job and assisting you at getting better feedback. But I guess feedback isn't something you're looking for, you just constantly want to tell people that you are right and they are wrong. Why do I even bother to take a gander at your threads anymore? I really need to remember your username from now on.
Abusing his powers or just simply using his powers the way he should? You are so sensitive, I thought you were cured? Lol at you.

 

[6apbhmm]

I see it the same way as Laika, which is also why I wrote what I wrote and wont take it back, there is no discussion with this guy. He knows it all, we're all idiots.

I don't think theres even 0.1% possibility that 4-FA could be helpful in the long term.

 

[ErgicMergic]

I don't think theres even 0.1% possibility that 4-FA could be helpful in the long term.

While I agree that empaythogen abuse will only make you more depressed and anxious, some people do have life changing experiences with trying a non-psychedelic substance a couple of times. I don't know who the OP is or what's his beef with the mods, but let's try to keep this thread civil and objective.

 

[tricomb]

If you have a problem with a member of staff please go through the right channels and send a PM to a member of senior staff, we don't need to pollute the harm reduction focus forums with unneeded provocation that most likely will distract from, or interfere with the relevant information and and reduction of harm.

Using 4-FA as a long-term "cure" for depression, as has been pointed out, contradicts itself. Sounds like a terrible drug induced idea. Look at it from a logical, rational, non-drug abusing perspective, would someone who's judgement is not clouded ever suggest using 4-FA for treatment of depression? I sincerely doubt it, and would question their logic, rationale, and sobreity.

There is no "cure" for depression.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I think that you can't automatically connect the 4-FA use, and not being depressed now. I think it's great you're not depressed anymore, but I wouldn't automatically attribute it to a single drug.

I also wouldn't replace a stimulant for benzodiazepines. This wouldn't work well in most cases.

 

[ErgicMergic]

CH makes a good point: correlation doesn't necessary equal causation. It could just be a coincidence that is seen in others as well, but it doesn't necessarily mean that the 4-FA was the cause for it.

 

[The King of Beans]

Didn't even it read the whole post to know this is loads of nonsense. RC amphetamine as a cure for depression, yeeeeeah sure. It WILL be worse if you keep doing it, its a fun drug, wit side effects, nothing miraculous.

Im normally a calm person but I feel I need to be aggressive on this - this is harm reduction forum and I believe you are doing the exact opposite by posting things like this. Whats next, recommending heroin for loneliness?

Thats why you should of read the entire thing. I never said abusing it and taking it regularly would cure depression. I said if you take it in a controlled setting, and limited use, it can possibly cure it (As it did for me) and then you shouldnt take the drug anymore after that. Except maybe once in a blue moon.

^ Don't get your panties in a bunch and actually read this thread before replying...

OP, that's amazing. So this RC amphetamine basically acted as an adaptogen on a neuronal level, "fixing" your serotonin deficiency? I find that hard to believe. Maybe what happened is that it was almost like another psychedelic trip to you, but since it is basically an amphetamine with extra serotonin (extra memory formations over amphetamine), you forced your brain to "learn" to be happy again, and naturally overcame depression after the trip.

Were you open minded and willing to change before going in to the experience, or were you just looking to "get high," like most people doing drugs like this?

I've heard of people becoming a lot happier after doing MDMA just once or twice, and not abusing it, as they learned new ways of thinking, like psychedelics.

Exactly. Thank you. This is what I am talking about. I didnt mean if you abuse the drug. Too much of anything is not good. I actually did the 4-FA often but only for a very limited time. As for me personally, I had no idea it would cure my depression long term. I went in doing it just cuz it made me feel good and had no bad side effects.

I see it the same way as Laika, which is also why I wrote what I wrote and wont take it back, there is no discussion with this guy. He knows it all, we're all idiots.

I don't think theres even 0.1% possibility that 4-FA could be helpful in the long term.

U guys are the ones speaking out of ignorance trying to argue when I am the one who experienced the depression going away. Of course you are wrong to tell me what I experienced.

And you're being very closed minded to think it's not even possible that 4-FA will help depression. Do you at least believe MDMA helps? Thats already been proven. If you believe MDMA helps why cant you believe 4-FA does too?

CH makes a good point: correlation doesn't necessary equal causation. It could just be a coincidence that is seen in others as well, but it doesn't necessarily mean that the 4-FA was the cause for it.

I agree it's not 100% solid proof, but come on now..lets be real. It was OBVIOUSLY the 4-FA. I didnt take anything else. And Ive been depressed for almost 15 years. Why cant people connect dots? That really gets to me as well. Its like I got this special ability to figure things out that seem so simple to me. For instance, I should be judge, and jury for america. I see all these wrong people getting convicted and I am able to tell they are either innocent or guilty from the start. No need for Trial. I could save them a lot of money. And save many from injustices. I know I know, yall are just gonna laugh at me. But I'm being serious. This world really gets to me sometimes. It's like me against the world.

Oh, I should note that for those 15 years before the 4-fA, I wasnt actually "Depressed" I apologize I used the wrong word (My english sucks) a better word for it would be DULL. I am not sad or crying all the time. But i simply have not been happy, and nothing has interested me much since the overdose I had years ago. I definitely fried my brain from that. But now since doing the 4-FA I am actually normal again. Now I get mood swings and get these outbursts from time to time but you have to be happy in order to me mad or depressed! Now I can experience normal human emotion again. Something that feels so good after being devoid of it for so long.

 

[lapseofreason89]

4-FA is definitely not a reasonable long term cure for depression. stimulants cause depression themselves after long periods of use, and you'll be feeling worse than you were before you started using it regularly. i would definitely not suggest it.

tramadol works very well when prescribed off-label for depression. maybe you should look into that.

much love,
lapseofreason89

 

[RobotRipping]

blah, why does everyone keep mentioning long term or chronic use? OP specifically mentions using this as a one-off sort of thing or limited use. It'd be like taking ibogaine to reset your receptors and such. Think of it like that. If you use ibogaine daily then I am willing to bet you'd have problems as well, but as a one off treatment or used in a limited and controlled fashion it can do many great things.

I have no idea if taking 4-FA will cure depression and I really doubt serotonin is the only factor causing depression in most people. If it were then SSRI's would be very effective, yet they are not.

 

[ErgicMergic]

blah, why does everyone keep mentioning long term or chronic use? OP specifically mentions using this as a one-off sort of thing or limited use.

Don't take this the wrong way, guys, but this is because most Bluelighters in this subforum are either drug abusers or drug addicts. There are few people getting high only occasionally on Other Drugs, most people are either addicted to their DOC's or have heavily abused them in the past, and assume everyone else approaches drugs the same ways they did. I find Erowid or non-drug forums to be more reasonable places to learn about and to discuss occasional drug usage.