ordaining as a monk/staying at monasteries

[Mysterie]

i've been thinking stongly about travelling to thailand, maybe burma and sri lanka as well and staying in thai forest monasteries and other theravadin monasteries and seeing if anywhere clicks.

my intention would be to stay 5 years at least.

i read someone else's reason to ordain and he said "there was nothing else i wanted to do", that strikes a chord with me as it seems where my life is heading as well.

i've been on two 10 day silent vipassana retreats and since the first one i have wanted to practice in a supportive environment.

anyone thought about it, anyone stayed in a monastery?

 

[Foreigner]

I lived in a Tibetan Buddhist one for 1.5 years. Eventually I got kicked out, mostly because I failed to acknowledge that I had gone as far as I was prepared to go, and rather than admit that to myself I sort of languished to the chagrin of the other people there. My first year was epic and I greatly benefited from it. I also had made a personal vow to stick with it, to get to a certain level, and various other attachments. My advice to you is that it's more important to be earnest with yourself and what's happening in the moment rather than to stick to time lines. That's not to say I regret my experience, I actually really benefited from it. There's a difference between discipline and faith, and discipline and over-committment. You must always give yourself permission to change and abort. The choice to continue or not is very personal like the spiritual path itself.

I've mingled with the Theravadas of Thailand and some are hardcore. If you're really serious about your attachment to a five year plan then select carefully. If you've figured out that Thailand is your cup of tea then I'd recommend flying there with some places already pre-researched and pre-contacted, and check them out. Thailand is great for backpacking and it's so steeped in Buddhist culture that even just traveling around can sort of get you in the mindset.

Sorry if I sound lecturey, I'm just being protective. The final words of wisdom I'll give you are that the monasteries are not divorced from the human world, even if they think they are. They are prone to all the human benefits and pitfalls. Also, in somewhere like Thailand, being sent to Buddhist schools as a children is very normal so Buddhism there is more institutional. The biggest challenge with that country is finding places of rich spiritual teaching that aren't affected by populism. Also beware of "monasteries" that are businesses. You aren't the first foreigner to be attracted to the idea and they know this.

 

[sigmond]

I have considered doing this several times but I am not sure who to contact or whether I would even be accepted.

i read someone else's reason to ordain and he said "there was nothing else i wanted to do", that strikes a chord with me as it seems where my life is heading as well.

feel like this sometimes.. I would prefer to move to S. America and work a simple job, live a simple life on the beach.

 

[Mysterie]

thanks great post foreigner, agree on all counts.

@ sigmond, i've been doing a lot of reading of this subforum , has a lot of great info and super interesting i think.

in my head i'm thinking i'll withdraw from uni this year and leave in 3-6 months time. spontaneous? rash? maybe. but i feel like now the time is ripe for me to do this which is deep in my heart. i have to trust myself sometime or i will never be able to do it. isn't this moment perfect?

 

[drug_mentor]

I don't know what you are studying but I think you should consider finishing your education before you run off to join a monastery. If becoming a monk is what you really want to do then you will still want to do it when you finish University. If you throw away your education and find out that a monks life is not for you then you are in debt and have less opportunities than you would if you had finished your degree.

 

[Mysterie]

hmm well i can always study when i get back. probably a lot more ready to do it by then, and thats if i don't change my mind about the career path i'm thinking now.

why now and not in 3 years. well i feel like there could always be reasons for me to not ordain, i think there would be more reasons not to leave after spending 3 years studying at uni.

i can imagine a lot of people in my life if i told them about it, they would probably try and convince me that its a bad idea. but its important to me.

 

[drug_mentor]

Have you started your degree?

I am under the impression most degrees have to be completed within 7 or 8 years, if you go for 5 then you aren't really leaving enough time to finish it. Once you have your undergraduate you have a lot of post-grad options for if you decide to pursue another career path down the line.

You can study and not tell anybody about your plans. If this is what you really want to do with your life then I don't really get why you think 3 years of study would change that? If you do change your mind I would suggest that becoming a monk probably wasn't for you to begin with.

It is your life and your education. I just think you would be throwing away an opportunity that might be relatively limited to pack up and do something which you can do at any point in your life. You might find in 5 years that your living or financial situation dictate that study is not an option. I guarantee you that in 3 years there will still be monasteries in Thailand for you to join.

 

[Mysterie]

i haven't started the degree yet. i don't know what financial situation would prevent me as studying, since centrelink is enough for rent + food.

i have started 3 uni courses and 1 tafe course, and i quit them all within months -> 1.5 years. i don't do very well in universities, so if i have something i want to do more, why not do it.

 

[belligerent drunk]

I agree with drug_mentor, the monastery will still be there once you're finished with uni. If you don't do well in universities, well... I don't know what to say. There's a lot more to do in first world countries than go for a degree and a job requiring said degree, though. However, think very seriously about it, because as drug_mentor said, it doesn't really work the same way as Hess's law. If you finish uni before leaving, you'll at least secure more for when/if you decide to come back.

I had similar, although less extreme, temptations to leave uni for something more sentimental, but I'm glad I didn't act on them. Not your mommy, but just sayin' that it's a big decision and needs serious consideration.

 

[Mysterie]

i think my application to stay at a theravadin monastery in sydney has been accepted. i'll stay there for a week and get a feel for what it would be like. so excited!

leave in a few weeks

 

[Foreigner]

It's important to consider life options, but stressing out about the degree isn't very useful. It's true that if you start a degree and then abandon it, you'll have no debt or credential. On the other hand, if you do the degree first you'll have debt and be pressured to join the work force once you're done school. If you haven't started the degree at all then now is as good a time as any to explore other avenues. To me, doing this *before* school is the lowest risk. Once you start school it creates other distractions and obligations that are hard to put aside -- potentially for a very long time.

In any case, you can weigh all those logical variables but if something deep within you is urging you to do the monastic thing now then maybe listen to that?

I did two years of a degree and after my time in a monastery I abandoned it and went into alternative medicine instead. Had I pushed myself to finish the first degree just to get the piece of paper, I would've been utterly miserable. About 10 years ago having a degree of any kind would make school worth it but in today's world degrees are meh.

Follow the path that calls to you, and be practical. If you live in a foreign country and in a monastery, you won't re-emerge as the same person you are now. You could have radically different perspectives and priorities. Travel in general does that but the specific life you're seeking will do it even more.

 

[drug_mentor]

i haven't started the degree yet. i don't know what financial situation would prevent me as studying, since centrelink is enough for rent + food.

i have started 3 uni courses and 1 tafe course, and i quit them all within months -> 1.5 years. i don't do very well in universities, so if i have something i want to do more, why not do it.

It sounds like you have issues with committing to a goal and sticking to it. I don't know why you would be confident this will be any different.

Centrelink may well cover rent and food. It might not cover transport costs, books, student services and amenities fees, parking fees, etc. on top though.

About 10 years ago having a degree of any kind would make school worth it but in today's world degrees are meh.

This is hyperbolic nonsense. If anything higher education is becoming more relevant in order to stay competitive in today's job market. The way technology is going a lot of unskilled jobs will likely be obsolete in the next couple of decades. I think you are giving terrible advice.

 

[Mysterie]

It sounds like you have issues with committing to a goal and sticking to it. I don't know why you would be confident this will be any different.

Centrelink may well cover rent and food. It might not cover transport costs, books, student services and amenities fees, parking fees, etc. on top though.

i see it as trying out different things to see where i fit, being honest with myself when i realise i'm on the wrong track. i think i am a big of a late bloomer, i'll come to see later on- where i can fit in or even if i need to fit into society. why would this be different? i want to do this more than any thing which i ever felt societally pressured to do.

i think austudy gives u 1k each semester for books, which students are on. i'm not too worried about not having enough money, but i appreciate the practical perspective. if i had to live frugally, i think it would be an interesting experience.

 

[Foreigner]

This is hyperbolic nonsense. If anything higher education is becoming more relevant in order to stay competitive in today's job market. The way technology is going a lot of unskilled jobs will likely be obsolete in the next couple of decades. I think you are giving terrible advice.

Maybe in your part of the world that's how it is, but in North America the degree market has stagnated. You need increasingly more education to stay competitive, in addition to work experience. I know people with masters degrees in things like engineering who are working at coffee shops. In some professions you now need a PhD to maintain an edge because most of the applicants are at the masters level. It depends on what you're training for I guess.

There's also the issue of, if you don't feel ready for school or if you blithely complete a degree that may not be the right thing for you, you're either not going to complete the program, or you'll complete it but end up in a field of work you despise. You're from Australia... isn't it normal for people to take time to experience life before going to school?

If you want to go into business you definitely don't need a degree per se.

 

[drug_mentor]

The job market is hard and there are certainly industries where you need a Masters level qualification to even be considered. It is worth pointing out that in order to get your Masters you first need to get a Bachelors degree.

I am not saying that a degree guarantees you a good job, but you are in a considerably better position than someone without one when it comes to finding work in a lot of industries. There are loads of graduate positions for people with degrees to apply for and there are many positions in the public sector which do not require a specific degree but which are not available to anyone who does not have a Bachelors degree.

I am not sure if what you say about business is strictly true in Australia. I have a diploma in marketing and I got good marks. I was unable to find a job in business with this qualification. I am currently studying a Bachelor of Arts which is clearly not even business related yet I will have a much better chance of finding a job in business when I graduate.

I see unskilled jobs being phased out slowly here. In supermarkets now there are self-service checkouts, I have heard proposals of using drones to deliver packages to peoples houses and they are now trying to make self-driving cars. I predict a hell of a lot of unskilled jobs will not exist within my lifetime, and when that day comes those without a solid post-secondary education are going to struggle to get more specialised jobs when they are competing against those with University qualifications.

If you complete a generalist degree like Arts or Science then you are not boxed in to a single field of work. Even people who hold less generalist degrees are still probably going to be looked upon more favourably than people without degrees unless the less educated person has relevant work experience that the degree holder doesn't.

Mysterie has started and stopped 4 courses prior to getting accepted into this one. I can't comment on how much time they have taken to experience life, but I would wager it is considerably more than the average University student.

 

[swilow]

Interesting topic. I agree with all perspectives.

I will simply say that I returned to study after a fucking long time of not doing any study at all. I was 30. I've finished it and am working 'meaningfully' as a result. Its definitely possible to go back to school a touch later in life. I have found it immensely rewarding. I am looking for something else to study as we speak.

When I was younger, I was totally unprepared for studying, I was always trying to find the next thing to transform my life. I don't know how old you are mysterie but I was useless for anything in my late teens and twenties, mainly due to addiction and weird family, etc.. I didn't do anything as 'exotic' as join a monastery and certainly didn't achieve much, but I had some pretty crazy experiences in many realms which I will always be able to draw on. I can't now imagine doing a lot of what I did again, but I am glad that I had that epic, careless feeling (illusion?) for a while at least....:D

I say go for it, but I am not to be trusted.

 

[tantric]

for my two cents - do something glorious and get sent to prison. in prison, one way to survive is to be righteous - i walked the path of the lord buddha. this is from my blog

prison is funny. see, after all, i *am* stone cold tantric, and locking me in a cell and feeding me like a monk doesn’t really impair my path to spiritual harmony, even if i am locked up with some dumbass bitches. i bought my magic potion in prison – i traded a bag of tuna for a bottle once a week. diabetics go to the nurse to get insulin once a day, and nurses love me, ’cause i’m southern style polite and educated and frankly, queer, so i don’t hump their legs like the other inmates do. so when i have a string holder i made that hangs a package right behind my sack, i walk through the guard search each way, and they only wave the metal detector at me. if i need stuff, i carry info or tiny shit for people i trust. a piece of paper with number and a name is money – a green dot bought on the outside, a call confirms it and here, you can have a cell phone with full streaming movies handed to you within a day a most, if you’re clever enough to keep it charged and hid from the screws. sometimes you have to just carry the numbers over to somebody, which i can do, and i always find the person to get ’em to and make shit work. i didn’t have a phone, i hate phones anyway, but ’cause i’m diabetic and keep my sugar regulated (and the nurses love me) i get a milk, cup of cereal and an orange every night like clockwork. i hate oranges – only citrus i like are limes and kumquats, so i give my orange to a nigga i know (don’t assume anything about his color, just that he’s got shit going on, if you’re in Smith State Prison in the beautiful state of Georgia, you’re either a nigger or a nigga, despite yo DNA and shit, and you need to know which is what). so i can call my family once a week, in 4G service, or any time in an emergency, and i don’t have to suitcase a cellphone (yeah).

so i get by and get high (legally, but against the rules in a way that would get my ass in solitary) in prison. wtf. my IQ is sky high and i have half of a phd in epidemiology/ecology of all shit, but that’s my life. you learn some important fucking shit in prison. gamers flat out saved my life. DnD geeks happen to include some stone cold MFs, about half of them ex-military. others are rapists and drug dealers and one a child molester, but he’s in for life and you don’t judge a man (much) after that. i probably should not have gone with a female teifling shadowmancer for my first character, but after i reupped with the hillbilly barbarian/ranger, it was all good.

i wasn’t unhappy. i got there by giving up, not by standing up. i got away with that. somehow i don’t think this is what i’m supposed to learn from my experiences, but when those experiences include brutal dehumanization (cause it wasn’t all fun), you learn some shit whether you like it or not, just like they say at Coincidence Control Central.

 

[sigmond]

The job market is hard and there are certainly industries where you need a Masters level qualification to even be considered. It is worth pointing out that in order to get your Masters you first need to get a Bachelors degree.

I am not saying that a degree guarantees you a good job, but you are in a considerably better position than someone without one when it comes to finding work in a lot of industries. There are loads of graduate positions for people with degrees to apply for and there are many positions in the public sector which do not require a specific degree but which are not available to anyone who does not have a Bachelors degree.

I am not sure if what you say about business is strictly true in Australia. I have a diploma in marketing and I got good marks. I was unable to find a job in business with this qualification. I am currently studying a Bachelor of Arts which is clearly not even business related yet I will have a much better chance of finding a job in business when I graduate.

I see unskilled jobs being phased out slowly here. In supermarkets now there are self-service checkouts, I have heard proposals of using drones to deliver packages to peoples houses and they are now trying to make self-driving cars. I predict a hell of a lot of unskilled jobs will not exist within my lifetime, and when that day comes those without a solid post-secondary education are going to struggle to get more specialised jobs when they are competing against those with University qualifications.

If you complete a generalist degree like Arts or Science then you are not boxed in to a single field of work. Even people who hold less generalist degrees are still probably going to be looked upon more favourably than people without degrees unless the less educated person has relevant work experience that the degree holder doesn't.

Mysterie has started and stopped 4 courses prior to getting accepted into this one. I can't comment on how much time they have taken to experience life, but I would wager it is considerably more than the average University student.

A few years ago I started explaining how technology will start taking away an immense amount of jobs but then I noticed people getting annoyed every time I brought it up so now I just recommend this book: