Oral Meth why...lets address it seriously once!

[quale]

Fiarnymph you have repeatedly advocated the pleasures of oral meth on this board. Also taken alot of flak from it (not quite sure why have the other people here always suggest there own favorite route of administration). What I want to know is what the benifit is.
Certainly the meth should last longer, and thus perhaps have a smoother comedown. If you do not add your comedowns with sedatives I can definatly see the advantage here.
However, I was under the impression that oral meth is absorbed less eficcently than insulflated meth. Hell it will just drip down eventually no? I presume you don't have anything against a quick come up. Why not snort smaller lines more frequently and you can let yourself down gradually this way. Or take your booster oral for the smoother comedown.
Do you find the experience subjectively differnt than small repeated insulflation? Do you believe it is actually a much more euphoric experience or is it just convient (you can take it once and not have to worry about sneaking/measuring small lines through the period you wish to remain fucked). It is probably safer as far as addiction goes (rushes seem to be particuarly reinforcing for some reason).
I guess I am asking do you really find oral meth a substantially differnt experience or is it just a much more convient way to accuaretly dose and control your habit? Or do you just not like snorting?
Also how do the crashes vary between the various routes of admin. I haven't noticed that sig of a difference. With coke, which is quickly deactivated when it enters the bloodstream of course snorting produces a smoother comedown (it is like being gradually let off the substance as still unabsorbed pieces gradually enter the body while with the IV it is all there and then suddenly gone) the duration of meth seems long enough that absorbtion, even oral, is going to be long completed by the time you are coming down so I don't understand why it would make that much of a differnce.
MAybe I am just wrong and absorbtion is *Very* slow orally. If you do say 75mg orally how spun are you say 1hr later compared to 75mg insulflated?

 

[shneed]

I haven't had a lot of experience with oral meth, but some. It is comparable to eating a snorting MDMA. Although snorting MDMA can be nice and have it's benefits, there's just something that goes on when it is ingested. Maybe it has something to do with it being metabolized or whatever in the liver or some function like that. It just feels different when it goes through your stomach. It is definitely not as intense a rush as other routes of administration, but feels like a much "fuller" high, kind of like all of my brain has been lifted to the same level rather than when snorted it feels like some has been lifted very high but other parts left down. Oral meth is not for the people who do meth for the rush associated with it which can be don repeatedly, but for someone who wants to have a pretty chill day talking to people and going about your normal business. It's also like snorting adderall and eating it, same difference.

 

[quale]

So you seem to be backing up the theory that it is just the longer, while less intense, constant level of high. In short if one was so prepared they could do the same thing via constant monitoried IV (specualation of course just curious about why). As in if you had a IV bag that released the meth into your bloodstream at an appropriate rate it would be a similar experience?
E does seem to require some sort of bio-metabolic conversion. All the papers suggesting IVC admin doesn't cause neurotox and that it is bio-transformed to MDA do tell us that going through the digestive track will give a chemically differnt experneice. I didn't believe the same was true for meth but it would be extremely interesting if I was wrong (I mean MDMA directly affects cells in-vitro to release serotonin and stuff but doesn't cause neurotox...maybe we are wrong about no meth metabolite as well).
Two more questions anyone know the percent absorbtion via the various routes? Do you get 75% snorting? 60%? eating? etc..
Finally a practical question. Suppose you want to go party. You want to start out with a meth rush (like snorted) but then without redosing at the event have a longer, maybe less intense experience. How long does oral take to hit? Can you buy long lasting gelcaps?

 

[shneed]

Well I've never IVed meth, or anything for that matter, but I see what you're saying about a constantly release of IV meth and I think that it still may be different than orally. Different routes of administration are all about different methods, levels, and speeds of absorbtion. When something goes through the oral route there are many different places it goes before getting to the bloodstream to be cleaned and converted and so on. I believe there is just some mechanism in your body that allows for the smoothest and most constant absorbtion possible, much different from IVing where the drug passes almost none of the stations it does orally. So no matter what, I don't think the oral high can be replicated in any way, it just hasta be eaten.
[edit] Also, about crashes, the faster you come up the harder you come down. I find there to be a notably worse crash from smoking meth than while snorting it [/edit]
[ 25 July 2002: Message edited by: shneed ]

 

[fairnymph]

Oral bioavailability calculated from this study and a previous one was 67.2 +/- 3.1%
Cook CE, Jeffcoat AR, Hill JM, Pugh DE, Patetta PK, Sadler BM, White WR, Perez-Reyes M. Pharmacokinetics of methamphetamine self-administered to human subjects by smoking S-(+)-methamphetamine hydrochloride. Drug Metab Dispos. 1993 Jul-Aug;21(4):717-23.
Smoked methamphetamine bioavailability is about 90%. I'd expect that snorted bioavailability would be somewhere in between oral and smoked.
Admittedly, taking meth orally is a more expensive way of doing it. You definitely need a higher dose than you would with other routes of administration. But, I believe that it is worth the extra money...
Oral meth feels substantially different from snorted and smoked meth. Snorting meth has a jittery effect that I have not found with other methods of administration. Smoking meth lacks clarity -- making me feel fucked up in a kind of 'confused' way. Furthermore, I do not enjoy the nose/throat/lung irritation which results from snorting and smoking.
Now, IV meth has by far the best body high. But, because the body high is so intense, I sometimes feel that it overwhelms the psychological and head high of the meth experience.
Meth taken orally therefore produces the second best body high, mental clarity, and smooth euphoria. It is very like rolling, but more stimulating. It is more empathogenic. It is also the healthiest way to take meth, and also has the most gradual comedown.
I don't glorify oral meth because I think all drugs should be taken orally...I simply believe that it is the best way to do that particular drug.
I snort and IV coke, I IV opiates, I IM ketamine, I eat MDMA. I fully believe in exploring all methods of drug administration for each drug so that I can get the most out of my drug experiences.

 

[Sprite]

Fairnymph...how do you prefer to take meth orally/with what? how much would you start with for your first dose and then what would you switch to to sustain a high throughout the night?
[ 25 July 2002: Message edited by: Sprite ]

 

[liquiddelight]

When I party, I smoke my meth. When I study, I eat it.
What I would usually do is take a small bump of meth, and mix it up with coffe. Works like a charm.

 

[fairnymph]

Sprite --
Depending on the situation, I either take the meth in a capsule or I just dump it in some juice/soda/water. If I plan to only be up for 6 or so hours, and then crash, I'll take one big dose -- ~75 mg of good quality crystalline meth. If I plan to stay up for the whole night, I'll take two doses about 3-4 hours apart, the first time, ~50 mg, the second time, ~60 mg.
If you have a significant tolerance, these numbers will be higher, as they will be if you get less than great meth.
[ 26 July 2002: Message edited by: fairnymph ]

 

[NoriegA]

I personally find it a different experience. When you bump meth or bang it you get an immediated intense rush which is like unother. When you take it orally you anticipate the rush that is about to come. You know it is going to come just not when, so you are pretty much prepared for the initial rush once it first hits.
I prefer bumping it rather then the oral. They are two different highs from the onset. Bumping it is way better because of the intense immediate rush...

 

[End_User]

Originally posted by NoriegA:
I prefer bumping it rather then the oral. They are two different highs from the onset. Bumping it is way better because of the intense immediate rush...
I am in complete agreement w/ NoriegA on this - Orally ingested meth is similar to the feeling I get from adderall or dexedrine. It is an overall long-lasting feeling of well-being. But meth is all about the rush, that instant euphoria that can only come from snorting (or IVing). But maybe once I move to the SW in the fall where speed is about 1/3 of the price and 3x better, I may be eating it more. Maybe a self-prescription...

 

[fairnymph]

But see, there isn't a REAL rush of immediate onset with snorted or even IVed meth...because there is still a come up when you do meth this way! I can show you charts of peak plasma levels with meth...it does not peak until a good 15+ minutes after snorting. So yeah, you get a *bit* of a rush but it feels very minimal to me...and yes I get good meth. I think you all just like snorting things, and the so-called 'rush' is largely psycological.
I can understand these routes when applied to a drug like cocaine or 2ct7, which will cause the drug to hit you like a truckload all at once, but the same logic simply DOES NOT apply to meth.

 

[C21H23NO5]

fairnymph if all you're going after is a day of work and concentration then, yes, I would suggest oral meth. But, can't you agree on this, if you're looking to get incredibly fucked up, and all you have is meth, you're not going to eat it, you're going to bang it? Correct?

 

[fairnymph]

Nope. I'm talking about getting fucked up. Really fucked up. I find that IV meth, while fun, is too short lived for me.
If you're not getting fucked up enough from oral meth, then, I repeat, you are not taking enough.

 

[shneed]

Maybe it's just your body chemistry fairnymph and you don't experience the same rush as many. Let me tell you, the rush is comparable to crack, but longer lived, and more "intelligent" feeling. I actually enjoy smoking a hit of meth, sitting for a few min feeling the growing intensity of the rush. Maybe you're just not smoking enough...hehe. The rush from smoking is much more intense than snorting, maybe you should try smoking and take some large ass hits, hold that shit in and close your eyes, then let it out and sit back content as can be...I sure like it

 

[Sniff]

I've been using meth recreationally for about 3-4 years regularly, and IMO eating it is by far the best method. I ALWAYS take it this way, and so do all of my friends.
Personally, snorting meth gives a comparable rush to eating it, slightly stronger at first, but WAY shorter and I had similar experiences with smoking it.
Eating 2-4 points of average quality meth over a night gives me enough energy to dance for hours and induces very euphoric tingles It is less rushy when coming on, but lasts about 5 times as long.
Of course, these effects will vary a lot from person to person...

 

[meister]

Originally posted by shneed:
I actually enjoy smoking a hit of meth, sitting for a few min feeling the growing intensity of the rush. Maybe you're just not smoking enough...hehe
This guy takes like 20mg hits.
About oral meth, just because you can "still feel it", doesnt mean your feeling good. It seems pointless not being able to eat or sleep, without even being high. With something like meth, snort, shoot, or smoke it and get it over with.

 

[RevHead]

^^^^
I'm not much of a snorting fan anyway, sparing my sinuses for the real nose candy.
Half a gram for hours and hours of revvin' if you're gonna eat it.
Gotta love how it rots away your teeth though.
I know a couple of hardcore meth-eaters whose enamel has been corroded away where the tooth is closest to the gum. They have brown teeth.
Then Ivy comes along and you don't go back.

 

[aliengrrl]

i've snorted meth and consumed it orally many times. the rush from snorting it is not substantially greater than from eating it. im partial to both methods. i actually like a little of both.
i don't like smoking, cuz i don't like smoking anything. people underestimate the quick rush you get from eating meth. its not like mdma or lsd, its an amphetamine and even eating it you will feel rushy in about 10 minutes. if you do a large enough dosage you will feel an intense euphoria and clarity.
it lasts longer but you're body processes it more smoothly, so you're let off a little more gently. i still love to snort really good glass, but i'd rather do a couple of bumps and then take a dose orally, and enjoy the rest of my night.

 

[stardreamer]

yeah an old boss at work had no teeth whatsoever from meth - instead she had a mouth full of denchers

 

[kiwikr72]

Rev, in reference to your comments about tooth decay caused by meth, that's actually not true. It's caused by dry mouth, highly common on meth, perhaps moreso than on other drugs. Keeping your mouth as moist as possible and keeping good dental hygiene can usually prevent tooth decay.