Ok so last night I decided to try and do a simple extraction from about 700 or so grams of poppy seeds using a hot water extraction. I boiled the seeds for about 15 to 20 minutes or so and then filtered out the remaining brownish water, which some would call tea, and then boiled the water until a tar like brown substance was left. I tried smoking it with little to no effect. So now I have this brown gunk which potential has alkoloids I am interested in. Does anyone know where to go from here any type of extraction methods that could work or does anyone have any positive experiences with the seeds? I have read mixed reviews all over on the subject with little help from them. I also saw a post about someone doing this and getting a powdered form from it which seemed to do the job. Any help would be great thanks.
Opioids Opium Extraction From seeds now what?
- Thread starter AirNod23
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sekio
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What you're making is known as poppy seed tea, it is very variable because it relies on the leftover bits of opium latex that may or may not be washed off the seewds during production.
There are few positive experiences with seed tea because -
1. it tastes even worse than poppy pod/opium tea
2. people have died drinking poppy seed tea because there's no way to tell how strong it is.
3. there's very little alkaloids left on poppyseed anyway.
There are few positive experiences with seed tea because -
1. it tastes even worse than poppy pod/opium tea
2. people have died drinking poppy seed tea because there's no way to tell how strong it is.
3. there's very little alkaloids left on poppyseed anyway.
Miss Kirsty
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Airnod23 you really should check out the link seiko provided in point no 2. I just looked in here as i was curious about PST...Shit man, i been reading some fucked up stories about this stuff...Go and have a look if you already havent mate...Its worth the read..The email section where everyone writes in is what i mean especially...Its a very small but very informative site.....check it out if you are dead set on the PST road..Cool man..Thats it i guess...
I was recently looking into the potential of making my own opiates so I'll share my final decision with you which is sort of already covered.
Since there are so many various types of poppies containing different quantities of our desired alkaloids, I'm going to be following in my parents footsteps and simply grow my own poppies. The basic advantage is even if you have a terrible batch, you can consistently have your own strain which you can learn how to maximize the effect when harvesting.
Also to save you from addiction, you will start getting yourself into a habit before your stash runs out until next year, so cheaper, safer, and a pretty fun hobby. (Also incredibly easy to grow)
Since there are so many various types of poppies containing different quantities of our desired alkaloids, I'm going to be following in my parents footsteps and simply grow my own poppies. The basic advantage is even if you have a terrible batch, you can consistently have your own strain which you can learn how to maximize the effect when harvesting.
Also to save you from addiction, you will start getting yourself into a habit before your stash runs out until next year, so cheaper, safer, and a pretty fun hobby. (Also incredibly easy to grow)
I understand the risks . I have NEVER done it before and was just curious as I was going to try to grow my own poppies as it would be a fun little hobby but came across the whole poppy seed tea thing. But I am not asking how to make PST I know what it is and all that and that is why I am looking for some type of experience or tip on how to get only the good stuff out of the gooey tar residue that was left over. Im not some stupid kid looking for a cheap high Ive just always wanted to try to do simple extractions and stuff which I also find very interesting. Sorry Im not trying to be hostile myself so please note that this isnt intended to be a shitty response at all. Ive read alot about the subject and I know how hard it is to find a reliable source as there is much dispute about PST. But please feel free to give me something informative about what I am trying to do it would be much appreciated.
P.S
I have experience with opiates and the amount of seeds I used from what Ive read is not a lethal amount especially with some one with a tolerance. Thanks for the caution though. I bet there are a lot of irresponsible kids on here that you have to be careful with how you respond.
P.S
I have experience with opiates and the amount of seeds I used from what Ive read is not a lethal amount especially with some one with a tolerance. Thanks for the caution though. I bet there are a lot of irresponsible kids on here that you have to be careful with how you respond.
Fire&Water
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You're never going to get anything worthwhile out of this sludge w/o advanced chem' knowledge
Even then you wont get much...
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doIhavePotential
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you could make the solution small enough to plug it, removes the taste factor and better than oral dosing in some cases. I wouldn't boil the seeds, use cold water and just shake it in a large ziplock back and filter it with a strain. use very low heat and maybe add a small amount of vitamin C when reducing the liquid.
I wouldn't use a large amount of seeds and would proceed with caution.
I wouldn't use a large amount of seeds and would proceed with caution.
you cant boil it!! heat destroys the opiates from poppy seed tea. you need to simmer it VERY slowly. sorry! other advice suggests leaving it in a wide pan and aiming a fan or low heater at it, to slowly evaporate the water. id favour that, as the sediment would sink to the bottom, and recieve marginally less heat.
ive only had poppy tea, with VERY successful results the first time, but avoiding too much heat was one of the main pieces of advice i read.
also remember that not all seeds will work, so try buying from different places. ive tried two different sources now- one worked, one gave nothing.
but yeah- that amount sounds a LOT. i drink tea from 700g wit a friend-we were out of it.
be VERY careful.
ive only had poppy tea, with VERY successful results the first time, but avoiding too much heat was one of the main pieces of advice i read.
also remember that not all seeds will work, so try buying from different places. ive tried two different sources now- one worked, one gave nothing.
but yeah- that amount sounds a LOT. i drink tea from 700g wit a friend-we were out of it.
be VERY careful.
Wow good advice guys I really appreciate it. And the whole time I was boiling it I was thinking I read somewhere that opiates are destroyed with heat, Im pretty glad I didnt smoke any of that gunk. If I ever do it again Ill use a cold water extraction of some sort. I just read a few sources of people that said they used this method and it worked and how they were nodding off the tarry residue but after reading this it sounds a little far fetched and or some type of placebo affect. But just out of curiosity say you did a cold water extraction and let the water evaporate slowly would the residue have any effects on a person. Also if I mixed the residue with water and made it into a small amount of tea would it still work or has the boiling method destroyed any type of opiate that would have been there.
Druidus
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Don't even simmer it. You only need lukewarm water, on my word.
Also, you can't extract a smokable opium latex from seed tea without a lot of work. Too many lipids and other solubles get into the final product. Yes, you can try to isolate the alkaloids, but that takes more work than you put in, and a little understanding of chemistry. I once extracted morphine from tea that was almost pure enough for me to be comfortable IVing. I didn't, just to be safe, but I think it was VERY pure.
If you just need that rush type feeling, you'll have to resort to learning a complex extraction, or simply administer a tea enema. Rectal administration will reslt in a much more intense effect and as close to a rush as you'll get without inhaling it or mainlining it. I'm serious, it works, and very well.
Also, you can't extract a smokable opium latex from seed tea without a lot of work. Too many lipids and other solubles get into the final product. Yes, you can try to isolate the alkaloids, but that takes more work than you put in, and a little understanding of chemistry. I once extracted morphine from tea that was almost pure enough for me to be comfortable IVing. I didn't, just to be safe, but I think it was VERY pure.
If you just need that rush type feeling, you'll have to resort to learning a complex extraction, or simply administer a tea enema. Rectal administration will reslt in a much more intense effect and as close to a rush as you'll get without inhaling it or mainlining it. I'm serious, it works, and very well.
Druidus
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Yes, it is a little odd/unpleasant. But definitely worth it. You would need a good enema kit that had high capacity to hold however much tea you need. But, remember, you'll need easily noticeably less of a dose, so less seeds and thus less water, if you administer rectally. It is more intense, though somewhat lesser in length of effect.
Give it a shot. If you can't deal with it, well, that's that. But I think you'll find that it's worth it for the benefits attained through this method; at least if you do it carefully and properly.
Also, as a last resort you can leave the prepared tea overnight by a fan or near a dehumidifier to greatly lower the volume of liquid you're required to plug. You just have to prepare your doses in advance, then. Just don't let too much water evapourate as you'll end up with a sludgy disgusting and highly oily product, something not at all ideal for rectal administration.
I guarantee this works, and well. Yeah it takes a little more planning and work, but just try it and you'll reap the benefits inherent in this approach.
Give it a shot. If you can't deal with it, well, that's that. But I think you'll find that it's worth it for the benefits attained through this method; at least if you do it carefully and properly.
Also, as a last resort you can leave the prepared tea overnight by a fan or near a dehumidifier to greatly lower the volume of liquid you're required to plug. You just have to prepare your doses in advance, then. Just don't let too much water evapourate as you'll end up with a sludgy disgusting and highly oily product, something not at all ideal for rectal administration.
I guarantee this works, and well. Yeah it takes a little more planning and work, but just try it and you'll reap the benefits inherent in this approach.
doIhavePotential
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you can either:
use a ziplock bag
shake 454g of seeds with a cup of water
strain it with a mesh strainer
use the lowest setting on the stove to reduce the solution
strain with a coffee filter once there is 25-75ml
dose every 20-30 mins to assess potency.
OR
use half a cup of water and do smaller batches with the same water being used, there is more waste with this method but no heat is used and evaporating is still possible.
How do you guys decide if the seeds are pre washed or not when buying?
use a ziplock bag
shake 454g of seeds with a cup of water
strain it with a mesh strainer
use the lowest setting on the stove to reduce the solution
strain with a coffee filter once there is 25-75ml
dose every 20-30 mins to assess potency.
OR
use half a cup of water and do smaller batches with the same water being used, there is more waste with this method but no heat is used and evaporating is still possible.
How do you guys decide if the seeds are pre washed or not when buying?
Druidus
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You can test potency quite accurately through tasting the bitterness level of a sample of the tea. You do want to get it down as fast as possible for best results, constant twenty minute redosing will definitely reduce the subjective effect of the tea. Also, 500 grams is low for many people, but it's a good first dose to test what you'll need. As for assessing potency before purchase, look for light colouring or whiteness on a large proportion of the seeds, or better yet, brownish colouring. These are signs of potency. Also, only buy from a bulk or ethnic food store, because any other places tend to have much better washed seeds. You should buy samples from a few stores, make a few mini teas with as little water as possible, and then test each for bitterness. The most bitter seeds come from the store you'll want to patronize.
If you want a straight up morphine high to nod on, just increase the dose to 1kg plus, after testing potency for safety. I've nodded HARD on two kilos.
Enjoy.
If you want a straight up morphine high to nod on, just increase the dose to 1kg plus, after testing potency for safety. I've nodded HARD on two kilos.
Enjoy.
Now I understand this was a while ago, but for the sake of correct information, that kid who died had taken kratom and something else with his poppy seed tea. Mixing multiple downers and if I recall correctly a barbituate.
AND, the number of alkaloids on seeds can vary greatly (thus you should drink the tea very slowly over an hour or more), if you find a place to get unwashed seeds (I have), you would be pleasantly surprised. I was on pain medication for quite some time and still am just I've lowered my doses considerably (finally) because of a parachuting accident. Anyways, I would take at first up to and sometimes over a 100mg of hydrocodone a day until I was moved up to Oxycodone, of which I would take 100-160mg a day. And just recently I tried the seed tea again, and I found it considerably pleasant and extremely powerful. I'm a large man considering I haven't been able to workout in over eight months too, slow metabolism and all and I find the PST to be very, very, powerful if done right.
Don't boil it, you are destroying the alkaloids when you do that, what I do? Put seeds in a gallon milk jug, warm water in the jug from the faucet, shake for ten minutes, let sit for twenty minutes, then shake for another ten, then strain out the liquid using the lid. Then very slowly consume the concoction, as it is VERY true that you have absolutely no clue how much you are taking. I honestly never tried it before due to the fact that I had such a low tolerance, but with a massive tolerance like I have now I was a little more confident that I wouldn't end up comatose.
Now, I have also evaporate a solution made from poppy seeds and come out with raw/cooked opium that could be eaten and smoked and the effects were/are considerably stronger than the PST. I use iso alcohol 99%, make sure the alcohol is a few centimeters above the poppy seeds, shake for some time, basically same thing, ten min shake, twenty min sitting, another ten min shake, and then strain it out into a pyrex dish, put a fan over it to increase evaporation rate by moving the air more quickly, and wait. I've found that just full on lighting it doesn't work, you are burning it and probably destroying the alkaloids, instead you want to vaporize it in my experience.
Now, to make the opium you do need VERY GOOD seeds. And its... poorly refined opium, I find it hard to even call it opium, but that really is what it is.
I have a buddy who has a bit of a more in-depth process and he actually gets flakes of opium out of it that can be insufflated and all.
I find people underestimating PST ALL the time. It blows my mind because I've found it to be extremely enjoyable, and if like me you use it for pain, you'll find it is far better than hydrocodone for killing pain, and definitely on par with oxycodone. (Though I believe oxycodone just increases tolerance for pain)
AND, the number of alkaloids on seeds can vary greatly (thus you should drink the tea very slowly over an hour or more), if you find a place to get unwashed seeds (I have), you would be pleasantly surprised. I was on pain medication for quite some time and still am just I've lowered my doses considerably (finally) because of a parachuting accident. Anyways, I would take at first up to and sometimes over a 100mg of hydrocodone a day until I was moved up to Oxycodone, of which I would take 100-160mg a day. And just recently I tried the seed tea again, and I found it considerably pleasant and extremely powerful. I'm a large man considering I haven't been able to workout in over eight months too, slow metabolism and all and I find the PST to be very, very, powerful if done right.
Don't boil it, you are destroying the alkaloids when you do that, what I do? Put seeds in a gallon milk jug, warm water in the jug from the faucet, shake for ten minutes, let sit for twenty minutes, then shake for another ten, then strain out the liquid using the lid. Then very slowly consume the concoction, as it is VERY true that you have absolutely no clue how much you are taking. I honestly never tried it before due to the fact that I had such a low tolerance, but with a massive tolerance like I have now I was a little more confident that I wouldn't end up comatose.
Now, I have also evaporate a solution made from poppy seeds and come out with raw/cooked opium that could be eaten and smoked and the effects were/are considerably stronger than the PST. I use iso alcohol 99%, make sure the alcohol is a few centimeters above the poppy seeds, shake for some time, basically same thing, ten min shake, twenty min sitting, another ten min shake, and then strain it out into a pyrex dish, put a fan over it to increase evaporation rate by moving the air more quickly, and wait. I've found that just full on lighting it doesn't work, you are burning it and probably destroying the alkaloids, instead you want to vaporize it in my experience.
Now, to make the opium you do need VERY GOOD seeds. And its... poorly refined opium, I find it hard to even call it opium, but that really is what it is.
I have a buddy who has a bit of a more in-depth process and he actually gets flakes of opium out of it that can be insufflated and all.
I find people underestimating PST ALL the time. It blows my mind because I've found it to be extremely enjoyable, and if like me you use it for pain, you'll find it is far better than hydrocodone for killing pain, and definitely on par with oxycodone. (Though I believe oxycodone just increases tolerance for pain)
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Amberthefrog
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^Agreed.
Some poppy seeds provide surprisingly massive alkaloid yields.
I live in the UK and have found that many (but not all) health food shops sell potent seeds. Weirdly, the strongest seeds I've ever found have been from a major supermarket chain. Where I live there are four different supermarkets stocking PSs, of these three originally supplied weak seeds, the fourth stronger. Randomly, one of the weak suppliers suddenly began supplying the aforementioned super potency seeds. If I'd not been tolerant I'm sure an OD would have been on the cards.
It's probably worth mentioning that PST was not by entry into the realms of opiate dependency, rather oral morphine, oxy and home grown pods.
A few random musings:-
1) Intensity of taste + colouration = potency. I was dubious at first but this has been the case every time I've made PST.
2) Think carefully before going into PST, the chances are that if you are able to find potent seeds and end up enjoying it, you will become dependant on morphine (et al). Not so good.
3) A first dose should be <700 g IMO. Depending on potency, 1,000 g may do nothing or it may be OD territory. The risk is avoidable.
4) Contrary to what an above poster claimed, heat does not denature or destroy most of the actives - at least heat <100'c will not.
5) Heat is unnecessary. To make PST simply get a 1/3 full 2L lemonade bottle, a funnel and your seeds. Add seeds to lemonade. Shake briefly (<5 mins of shaking). You have made PST, unscrew the cap half way so that it remains loosely attached to the bottle but will allow fluid to escape. Hold bottle over a cup/glass/whatnot and squeeze.
6) Depending on your lemonade: seed ratio, you should be able to squeeze ~2/3 of the liquid out. The remaining 1/3 will still contain alkaloids, thus a second extraction is worthwhile provided that the seeds were decent to begin with.
7) A 2L lemonade bottle, 1/3 full can hold about 1,200 g of seeds at a push.
8) 1000 g of very potent seeds can be equivalent to > 60 mg morphine. Do not underestimate.
9) I love the taste :D But then, associations and experience vastly alter perceptions. Still, it's really not that bad (mescaline cactus, phenibut drib...*shudder*)
10) In the unlikely event that anyone reading this is considering doing so, never snort phenibut - it makes 2c-burn seem incredibly pleasant, has an alarmingly higher BA than oral and is generally just a bloody ridiculous notion.
Cheers!
Some poppy seeds provide surprisingly massive alkaloid yields.
I live in the UK and have found that many (but not all) health food shops sell potent seeds. Weirdly, the strongest seeds I've ever found have been from a major supermarket chain. Where I live there are four different supermarkets stocking PSs, of these three originally supplied weak seeds, the fourth stronger. Randomly, one of the weak suppliers suddenly began supplying the aforementioned super potency seeds. If I'd not been tolerant I'm sure an OD would have been on the cards.
It's probably worth mentioning that PST was not by entry into the realms of opiate dependency, rather oral morphine, oxy and home grown pods.
A few random musings:-
1) Intensity of taste + colouration = potency. I was dubious at first but this has been the case every time I've made PST.
2) Think carefully before going into PST, the chances are that if you are able to find potent seeds and end up enjoying it, you will become dependant on morphine (et al). Not so good.
3) A first dose should be <700 g IMO. Depending on potency, 1,000 g may do nothing or it may be OD territory. The risk is avoidable.
4) Contrary to what an above poster claimed, heat does not denature or destroy most of the actives - at least heat <100'c will not.
5) Heat is unnecessary. To make PST simply get a 1/3 full 2L lemonade bottle, a funnel and your seeds. Add seeds to lemonade. Shake briefly (<5 mins of shaking). You have made PST, unscrew the cap half way so that it remains loosely attached to the bottle but will allow fluid to escape. Hold bottle over a cup/glass/whatnot and squeeze.
6) Depending on your lemonade: seed ratio, you should be able to squeeze ~2/3 of the liquid out. The remaining 1/3 will still contain alkaloids, thus a second extraction is worthwhile provided that the seeds were decent to begin with.
7) A 2L lemonade bottle, 1/3 full can hold about 1,200 g of seeds at a push.
8) 1000 g of very potent seeds can be equivalent to > 60 mg morphine. Do not underestimate.
9) I love the taste :D But then, associations and experience vastly alter perceptions. Still, it's really not that bad (mescaline cactus, phenibut drib...*shudder*)
10) In the unlikely event that anyone reading this is considering doing so, never snort phenibut - it makes 2c-burn seem incredibly pleasant, has an alarmingly higher BA than oral and is generally just a bloody ridiculous notion.
Cheers!
With a few years of experience I would like to make a few comments and clarifications. Please in the interest of harm reduction don't disseminate optimistic information regarding dosing strength if you are not a chemist or trained to actually measure and quantify the ingredients in your final batch. For newcomers that alone can be the single most dangerous information passed on.
So in the interests of harm reduction and err on the side of caution information here goes. Note: I am also not a trained chemist but I will refrain from optimistic dosing information. Information as follows:
- Boiling myth. Just plain wrong and yet the myth has been posted online since the commercial internet started. Telling people boiling destroys the alkaloids and then having them try it and assume a dose will be under strength is dangerous. Morphine does not break down at water boiling temperature. Morphine has a flash point of 247c and boiling point of 476c. Boiling morphine suspended in water will not destroy it. You will reduce the water but the morphine will just sit there. (http://www.lookchem.com/Morphine/). Just remember a lot of morphine by products are made through processes involving extreme heat. Smoking opium likewise relies on extreme heat.
- While heat is unnecessary for extraction of the latex coating the seeds...boiling/simmering will allow you to reduce the amount of liquid ingested so again be careful...that 50ml you end up with after a boiling reduction will still contain approximately the same amount of alkaloids as you started with pre-reduction.
- The colour myth. Having tried thousands of batches from dozens of sources I can say with a high degree of confidence and err on the side of safety by saying colour does not equate to strength. I have had almost clear liquid floor me and the dark brew of hades do not much under otherwise controlled conditions. I know the inclination is to equate colour with strength because the thought is that lack of colour implies unwashed/treated etc. This is simply not the case and even if it were it still wouldn't mean the actual morphine/codeine content was any weaker or stronger. Washing runoff can remove residue or simply displace it. A clean press can still contain just as many invisible to the eye morphine/codeine alkaloids as can a dirty press.
- The let sit for 20 to 30+ mins myth. Also wrong...the latex is on the outer coating of seed and not within...all letting the seed sit in liquid for more than 5 mins does is allow the seeds to moisten and expel their fatty oils which makes the taste that much worse. The most important consideration for water is that it provides coverage either you use more initial liquid or you use successive presses of liquid (a 1st/2nd/3rd press) that achieve the same thing...coverage and displacement. As the water displaces the latex not all of it will make it out as you can never completely remove 100% of the liquid. Successive presses using water can transport much of this however and is the main reason why those who keep the seed and re-use it again the next day can still get some actives.
So please be aware and be safe! Cheers.
So in the interests of harm reduction and err on the side of caution information here goes. Note: I am also not a trained chemist but I will refrain from optimistic dosing information. Information as follows:
- Boiling myth. Just plain wrong and yet the myth has been posted online since the commercial internet started. Telling people boiling destroys the alkaloids and then having them try it and assume a dose will be under strength is dangerous. Morphine does not break down at water boiling temperature. Morphine has a flash point of 247c and boiling point of 476c. Boiling morphine suspended in water will not destroy it. You will reduce the water but the morphine will just sit there. (http://www.lookchem.com/Morphine/). Just remember a lot of morphine by products are made through processes involving extreme heat. Smoking opium likewise relies on extreme heat.
- While heat is unnecessary for extraction of the latex coating the seeds...boiling/simmering will allow you to reduce the amount of liquid ingested so again be careful...that 50ml you end up with after a boiling reduction will still contain approximately the same amount of alkaloids as you started with pre-reduction.
- The colour myth. Having tried thousands of batches from dozens of sources I can say with a high degree of confidence and err on the side of safety by saying colour does not equate to strength. I have had almost clear liquid floor me and the dark brew of hades do not much under otherwise controlled conditions. I know the inclination is to equate colour with strength because the thought is that lack of colour implies unwashed/treated etc. This is simply not the case and even if it were it still wouldn't mean the actual morphine/codeine content was any weaker or stronger. Washing runoff can remove residue or simply displace it. A clean press can still contain just as many invisible to the eye morphine/codeine alkaloids as can a dirty press.
- The let sit for 20 to 30+ mins myth. Also wrong...the latex is on the outer coating of seed and not within...all letting the seed sit in liquid for more than 5 mins does is allow the seeds to moisten and expel their fatty oils which makes the taste that much worse. The most important consideration for water is that it provides coverage either you use more initial liquid or you use successive presses of liquid (a 1st/2nd/3rd press) that achieve the same thing...coverage and displacement. As the water displaces the latex not all of it will make it out as you can never completely remove 100% of the liquid. Successive presses using water can transport much of this however and is the main reason why those who keep the seed and re-use it again the next day can still get some actives.
So please be aware and be safe! Cheers.
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