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Opioids: self-medication for depression?

J

Jumbo

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Joined
Dec 11, 2002
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I know this will turn out badly, but I have found opioids for me to be FAR AND AWAY the best anti-depressants. For about 5 months I have almost daily used hydrocodone for severe back pain, but have found it unfailingly elevates my mood. I'm not talking a goofy blissed-out high, just happy and focused. I am energetic, pain-free, and actually look forward to work or social situations I would otherwise have dreaded for one reason or another. I'm getting a little tolerance, up from 5-10 mg per day to where it's no less than 20 per day and on weekends (for fun) up to 60. Had what I think was a little taste of the monkey the other day. I had had some medical procedures done that resulted in me taking 60 mg per day for 4 day in a row, beginning about 9:00 a.m. and maintaining all day long. Then the work week comes, and I'm not taking anything. I'm in front of a roomful of people making a presentation late in the afternoon, when all of sudden I start popping a huge sweat and my stomach just heaves. I run to the bathroom, have a huge blowout, and wonder if I have a bug or.... An hour later I drop 10mg of hc and all symptoms go away. Shit. So it looks like I have to pay attention. But I wonder how long I can go on combatting depression like this. A fool's game? Thoughts?
 
Yes it is an extremely good antidepressant... I learned the hard way though that your gonna have to quit sometime, and when you do the withdrawls will make you 10x depressed.
Even if you could take them all the time your tolerance would increase to the point of taking excess APAP, and you may possibly never shit again.(which is bad)
 
In general, I think that opiates are poor antidepressants.
I do think that they can have therapeutic value in a few limited instances -- for example, my psychiatrist treats one of his OCD patients (who did not respond to any typical OCD treatments) with oral morphine twice weekly -- and it works great!
Although I don't know of any particular instances where opiates have been used sucessfully for depression, I do believe it is possible -- HOWEVER -- ONLY for people who do not enjoy the opiate high recreationally (and yes, such people do exist!). I think otherwise, the potential for abuse and addiction is just far too great.
Another problem is tolerance. Every drug when taken regularly -- even nonabusable ones -- will eventually cause the the user to develop a tolerance. Some drugs, however, are worse than others in this regard. Opiates of course being in this category. So, I consider DAILY use of opiates for a prolonged period of time a VERY bad idea -- the tolerance will just build and build and the whole ordeal will become very expensive, and dependance (if not addiction) will set in.
So yes, I think you are walking on thin ice.
What antidepressants (traditional or otherwise) have you tried? There are a LOT of options out there. I doubt that you have exhausted the range of non-addictive drugs.
 
Opiates can work fine for depression. They're usually administered in several small doses\ day. You will *not* build a tolerance to the therapeutic effect if you use just 5-15mgs \ day or whatever & don't increase the dose chasing after that ever elusive high.
Consider talking to your doctor about Buprenorphine - Buprenex \ Subutex \ Suboxone sublingual. Bup is a mixed agonist \ antagonist & has a pretty low affinity for the kappa receptor...reducing dysphoric, depersonalizing, sweating..ect effects associated with usual kappa agonists. Buprenorphine has an extremely high mu receptor affinity - .3mg is equiv to 10mg Morphine. Buprenorphine has the added advantage of disociating from the mu receptor very slowly. Buprenex has been used successfully for depression & opiate addiction by many.
 
Thanks silver, sounds like you know only too well. I know it too, but damn we WILL play with fire, won't we?
fairnymph, welcome back (maybe). 75mg Effexor XR keeps me from drowning in "the slough of despond", but 10mg HC gets me to trapping the alligators and draining the whole damn swamp.
Crimethink, hmmm. Excuse my amateur status, but I've had the (no doubt oversimplified) view that "mureceptors - GOOD". Is bupe used in US? What is its primary use? If I waltz in talking bupe will my depression doc assume I'm a rehab candidate or, gasp, a drugseeker? Good idea or not, I'm not candid with my healthcare professionals about the extent of my opioid use. I don't tell my Effexor prescriber about opiod precription, and I don't tell my opioid prescriber about my Effexor use. Life-threateningly insane or merely stupid?
 
lohol Yes Yes go with the opiates its the only solution!
Jumbo why don't you check out which parks in your area take you fancy for future reference? Find a comfortable doorstep while you at it. heh sorry I'm a pessimist.
It already sounds like you are enjoying the opiates for the high like fairnymph said is a negative. She said that because this person would have great difficulty regulating use. You require two people to be objective almost always, unless the user doesn't enjoy the rec. value, or it's a non-addictive drug which has no abuse potential for the user. isnt that true fairnymph?
Thanks silver, sounds like you know only too well. I know it too, but damn we WILL play with fire, won't we?
pff you will believe whats attractive... junkies are the most one track minded of all the drug addicts, I'd be dead straight with myself in the early stages, like now.
So whats this chronic pain that can only be treated with opiates for eternity?Huh?
[ 22 February 2003: Message edited by: simpledimple ]
Click to expand...
 
Good luck on using opiates for depression. I have been diagnosed with bipolar and have had more then one doctor try to give me xanax to help. I really do not like xanax that much, but when they were that readily available I really abused them bad. If it was opiates it would be far worse in my abuse of the medication I actually need. Unless there was someone else that made sure I got only as directed I couldnt handle it.
 
They will work for depression, but as Silverfucked said, you will regret it once you have to quit them. After kicking my year long addiction to these drugs, the hardest part of it was the depression. I could deal with the shits, the sweats, the body aches that feel like you got hit by a bus, the 15 hour naps, the anxiety, and all the other discomforts... but the one thing that fucked with me the most was the depression. Shit I still feel a little depression and it's been over a year since I quit. In all honesty it's not worth it, if your going to do Opiates dont do them to battle depression.
 
Forreal... After I quit, many a day was spent laying in my room, feeling lost and wanting to die....
Opiates work as an antidepressant only because they kill the pain and the care for the sources of your depression. SSRI's are what you need.
 
It was unintelligible to me. Didn't know if it was just me, and maybe I was ignorant of some sort of mega hipster phatty rap or what.
[ 22 February 2003: Message edited by: Jumbo ]
 
Using opioids to deal with your depression is merely taking care of the symptoms, not the causes, and creating more problems for you in the long run. It seems like you are already mildly physiologically and heavily psychologically dependent on them. However, some people can maintain a functional addiction for years and not go overboard. This is an argument in favor of clean needles/shooting galleries, as giving opiate addicts access to such resources generally decreases their level of use while increasing their productivity. Unless you plan to take opioids indefinitely (and thus have a supply that will last indefinitely), I would advise you to quit as soon as your back pain goes away. It is unlikely that a doctor will prescribe you buprenorphine for it, because bup is used primarily to treat opiate addiction. However, because you, according to what you told us, fit the clinical description of an opiate addict, you could try going to an addiction clinic to get a prescription for bup.
 
Jumbo, your not seriously telling me you didn't understand what I was telling you in my origional post are you?
Ill reiterate with less clutter. I think using opiates to treat depression is a very bad idea which could be extremely dangerous as far as your life goes...
You've already started to fall in to the trap of using it as a solution to all your problems.
You never told us what this chronic pain was?
I know you understood that, so I asummed right, you are just ignorant.
[ 23 February 2003: Message edited by: simpledimple ]
 
I've been using large doses of opiates daily (not for pain) for the past 8 months. I orginally began taking opiates (primarily oxycodone) to alleviate my depression, and got addicted quickly. I dont think they are practical anti-depressants, but regardless, many use them for this purpose. They dont directly treat depression like ssri's and tri/tetracyclics, they simply make some of the symptoms less apparent. When they wear off the depression returns, and the ensuing rebound depression often times is worse, because now your depressed, itching, sweaty and irritable, but no longer high. Tramadol is an sri and an opiod, and many use it for depression, but it is still addictive and thus impractical in treating depression (especially severe depression).
Now I take opiates because i am addicted. It does not really help my depression, except for the brief few minutes when my buzz distracts me from my problems. Keep in mind sadness is not depression, as depression is a chronic medical condition. If you really think its helping you, then continue to take it, just be aware that you WILL become addicted eventually. I always thought it was better than suicide, but in my case, was merely a slower form than putting a gun in my mouth. Becoming chemically dependent definately does not help depression, but for some, gives them something to live for. Thats a pretty sick existence, but then again, what isnt.....
 
^^maybe you could take up meth instead. I could easily tell myself that meth was a good treatment for depression, it's the same thing as opiate lovers thinking that is a good treatment for it, don't you think?
Because your already addicted to opiates, do you think you would fall in to the trap of using as the perfect comedown tool from the meth?
Maybe you could like make a commitment to settle for weed on the meth comedowns.
So have a meth+weed addiction, then get back to opiates and appeciate them fully again.
dont know how sound this advice is but doesnt it sound like fucken great fun?
[ 24 February 2003: Message edited by: simpledimple ]
 
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