Opioids for chronic depression with a side of pain....

[Midazle]

Hello! I am Midazle and I am depressed. I figured I would start with that. Let me give you my goal; not be depressed! I have been depressed since I was a very young child. I have aspergers which is probably the cause; however I do not have trouble with social skills, in fact I am extremely outgoing and can hold a conversation and relate to just about any human being thanks to having such broad interests and can talk my way into and out of many things .

I have been on everyone antidepressant you can think of + mood stabilizers + ADHD medications + anxiety medications and it has helped but not to the degree that has helped. My depression might appear mild to some but in reality I am seriously a miserable human being! Recently I started college at a community college, don't live on campus, don't have access to any decent human beings to friend and thus I'm even more depressed.

I originally typed up a massive history of what I went through and tried but you don't want to read that so I will just let you know that I have tried everything for depression and asperger's negative symptoms thanks to being surrounded by clinical researchers of various degree's (Including exercise). I have a herniated disc that causes me great pain and prevents me from doing allot of things I love. When I was on opioids I was totally a different person in a good way! I was me I was on a low dose of oxycodone and I got work done. I truly feel that I would benefit from opioids used not only for my mood but for my physical ailment. I have never told anyone about my view points on opioids for anything other than moderate to severe physical pain keep in mind. My doctors are totally against me being on opioids but I think it is the best option. I'm really not sure what to do...I know relying on opioids for happiness (or any drug of any kind for the matter) is not good but then again no one has a fucking clue about how to treat aspergers effectively. I think with opioids, a psychologist and finding more people to hang out with in the future I can be for once in my life truly happy. I have no idea on whether this is an acceptable topic or what but I figure its Blue Light so I'll shoot.

So basically I'd like to see what people think or anyone can compare or offer success stories...as well as a discussion. The world as whole from my perspective really sucks..... :/

 

[OverDone]

Your depression will be propelled to greater depths once you acquire yourself an opiate habit. Tolerance builds quick. It just isn't a logical or responsible solution for those suffering from depression.

The reason you were happy when you were on opiates before is because that is what opiates do... they deliver (mostly intense) pleasure.

Nah, not the wisest decision, man. Listen to the medical professionals. They are much more informed than you are. Self-advocacy is a smart thing but don't double fuck yourself by grabbing onto a solution that couldn't possibly end well.

 

[suessmayr]

^ this. I'm totally with OverDone. Opiates are not sustainable for depression. Everyone feels great on opiates initially, but tolerance builds and you often get paradoxical reactions. I have never been more depressed in my entire life than I was on buprenorphine. Initially, of course, I felt fucking fabulous. I was like 'man! everyone should take this shit! opiates are the best!'. Within a couple of years, however, I was totally miserable and getting nothing from my dose.

Of course, oxycodone is more potent - or at least more euphoric - but in my view this would only make things more likely to go pear-shaped. Another issue is the relatively short half life of all opiates except buprenorphine and methadone (and presumably ER formulations) - it's just not sustainable to be going up and down, up and down, and constantly dosing yourself with such powerful drugs.

I agree that the distinction in medicine between 'anxiolytics' and 'analgesics' is essentially arbitrary. Codeine works great for anxiety like xanax works great for sleep. But I think you really need to distinguish between using opiates once, or occasionally, and intentionally getting yourself into a proper habit.

 

[suessmayr]

I'll just add that I think there is a difference between 'opiates for chronic depression with a side of pain' and 'opiates for chronic pain with a side of depression'. In the latter case it may be more reasonable to use opiates on an ongoing basis - if, that is, pain is the dominant issue.

 

[Legerity]

What made you stop opiates if they were helping you?

In general treating symptoms seems to be a rocky road especially with mental health. Some people seem to find long-term relief from certain antidepressants or other meds but in general using a drug to feel good leads to tolerance and eventually decreased effectiveness after a while.

If you are depressed then opiates are not going to address the reason why you are depressed, unless you believe it is purely a neurophysiological phenomenon based on a lack of endorphin or something similar. You can decide to treat the symptoms only if you wish but in general it's not effective after a while. Psychotherapy with medication is considered to be more effective than medication in the long-term, and I suspect that psychotherapy in itself (if you find somebody you are comfortable with) can be equally effective in many cases.

 

[Missykins]

Self-medication w/ narcotics for you depression would easily be the stupidest thing you could do. First, no
doctor is going to treat your "depression" with an opiate (not if he or she wants to keep their medical license), and
second, you'll be even MORE depressed once you've become addicted. You'll just need more and more, and you're
whole life will become dedicated to getting drugs.

Dumb!

 

[Refluxer]

Have you tried tramadol? It's not as addicting as the more "pure" opiates + it has SSRI/SNRI action. Just stick to a suitable dose and take breaks from it. I'm not sure it will work long term, but for intermittent relief it's a good option. Some people find it addicting and have harsh comedowns from it though, so be a little careful. (And think about the risk for seizures at high doses.)

 

[belfort]

i can understand the thought process of taking opiates for depression as they work very well at the start..they might even work well for years if on subuxone or some form of maintenance but then when it stops working thats when u get even more depressed...motivation suffers and then when u kick opiates, that is when you realize what true hardcor depression is all about..im talking about 'im not even gonna turn my computer on' type of lethargy/depression/tiredness..

 

[blueheaven]

A lot of this sounds very familiar to me. I have chronic pain from lateral scoliosis, two bad discs, early sclerotic arthritis in my SI joint, and a 3/4" leg length difference, add military injuries and wear and tear, along with a lifetime of self-medicating anxiety and depression b/c the meds the docs have given me just never cut it (not even after the PTSD diagnosis), and you get me two years ago, trying to sustain 80 hour work weeks and single parenting with the best darned med I had ever found that kept the pain to a minimum, kept me working and even-tempered, and prevented the weeks-at-a-time in bed and the three-day crying jags. So what it was addictive and I was quickly getting into some seriously grey areas with legality - it kept me alive and going, right?

Fast forward to now - opiates make people without prior depression problems have depression problems. Add in prior problems and I am looking at a train wreck the likes of which I have never faced before (and I have eight months inpatient and six months outpatient treatment for depression/anxiety under my belt, much of it back in the day before meds were as advanced and kind as they are now - this is not the Sunday blues I brought with me. This is the scar tissue and brain damage blues). And this last go-round I discovered that I am one of the lucky ones who eventually develop dose-dependent peripheral edema with chronic opiate use (read, my hands, feet, and face swell, and I've gained twenty pounds in the last four months; I have nerve impingement in my joints due to the pressure - it HURTS and I feel like I have arthritis -- so I have brand new pain now in addition to the regular pain).

And the depression - jesus, I'm not kidding. It's a bad idea. Thing is, I wouldn't have listened - I used opiates for a long time with no problems, and I was sure I was just not like every other junkie in my family. It took me a little longer, and I did it a little later in life, but I ended up right there with them, only with more to lose b/c I got addicted after school, career, kid, bills. And things were so bad two years ago that I did not think I could live without a little chemical assistance. The problem is, things are not really all that much better but I now have stacked a bunch of extra problems on top of the original ones. And my decision to treat my "depression with a side of pain" with daily opiate use means that instead of spending the past two years practicing all those emotion and mood management skills they tried to give me, and giving the kinder, gentler meds+treatment a chance, I micro-managed my moods and am now so *afraid* of them (because I'm afraid of tumbling into a hole I will not get out of and losing everything) that I don't even make it into full-blown withdrawal before the fear and panic nearly kill me. I get the first little old chill and the first sniffle and I just lose it, I truly lose it, FAST - depression, terror, self-hatred, panic, shame, etc all rolled up into a big nasty snarl.

I've run away from normal mood variations, what's normal for me and actually for anybody who is human, so long that I am terrified of the bad / low patches and convinced that I will lose everything, blow it all, die, whatever. I have been in and out of treatment, and on and off opiates, enough times to be aware that my thinking is distorted. I have kicked them before and did - eventually - begin to climb out of the apathy and misery hole. But thanks to my self-prescribed treatment plan, that knowledge does not matter much - it does not seem real at all when I am just lying in bed wishing lightning would strike me. Talk about distorted thinking. And none of this is even touching all the other stuff I don't need to mention - cost, lifestyle dangers, lost friendships, legal stuff, risk re. financial aid if you are caught while you are in school, tolerance and decreased effects, the usual litany.

I know you're not me, and nobody knows what somebody else's skin feels like, etc. But I'm doing the TMI just on the off chance that it might encourage you to try something else. It is true that opiates got me through a bad patch. But not only do they not help the underlying issue, they also bring more problems along with them, not all of which just disappear when you stop taking them (and you WILL stop taking them whether you want to or not, more than once, and I personally found the psychological aspect of withdrawal and post-dependence to be a hell of alot worse than the actual withdrawal proper, which after all does not last very long compared to, well, living).

I am afraid, the older I've gotten, that I have come to believe that 1. there is no such thing as "if I can just do _____ I will finally not be depressed" or "I will finally be happy." Not when you have atypical brain chemistry, long-term problems with depression, whatever. It is about a holistic matrix of stuff that will help, not a magic bullet that will cure, at least for me. ymmv. 2. sometimes the only thing that really begins to affect long-term depression is time, in the sense that it takes time for things to change in your life (due to circumstance or your own effort or both) so that you can get into less debilitating/impossible circumstances. It takes time to find the right treatment, time to figure out what works and doesn't, time to figure out how you can best help yourself, etc. I don't have your same diagnoses, and I am not pretending i know what it feels like to be you. But I can promise you - you can take this to the bank - that opiates do not take any of this away. They just put it in a bag and store it on a shelf somewhere. And when you stop taking them - and again, you will, whether you want to or not -- it's like some evil toothfairy opens up that sack full of writhing, stored-up nightmares and dumps however many years worth of them on your head all at once. Combine the depressive tendency with the agony withdrawals will put you in re. back pain, spasms, cramps, joint aches etc b/c of your existing back/structural problems, and you are talking about a very, very special kind of hell.

Sorry this is so long; I write it because it is very heartfelt. Trust me - if they were a sustainable solution, I would not be writing this post. I would be happily living with my sustainable solution. I wish I had more options to suggest, but I'm pretty much full-time engaged in just trying to make it through the next few minutes lately. But I beg you not to self-treat depression with an opiate addiction. Because it simply does not work, and you will pay for every second of relief later. Hang in there, make short term goals, and keep trying. For forty years, that actually worked for me, believe it or not, overall.