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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards

Opiates & Nicotine

soupynoodle

Greenlighter
Joined
Apr 29, 2014
Messages
45
I took a good amount of hydro the other day and was feeling alright (hydro buzzes are barely noticeable for me until they reach the severe stomach pain threshold....), and then put a dip in. As soon as the nicotine kicked in my whole body was vibrating and I began to nod. It felt awesome. But in 10 minutes or so, the buzz gave way to nausea, and then that terrible upper abdominal pain. I dry heaved but never puked. The pain lasted for an hour afterward and I was tempted to go to the ER, 'cause that shit hurt. I was wondering if someone could tell me what happened here.
 
Well, it is no secret that while on opiates, those who smoke cigarettes enjoy smoking notably moreso and often tend to smoke more, too. There is a synergistic effect with opiates and nicotine, which many here I am sure would attest to be so in their personal experience, myself no exception to that. Whenever I've been on a strong opioid, the activity of smoking is much more pleasurable. But, what is more is that for me, on more than one occasion, and from the anecdotal experience shared by others, I can say with good confidence that smoking a cigarette can sort of stoke the fire that is the opiate inside one's body, causing a perceptible intensification of the opiate's effects. It is not just the opiate making the nicotine's effects more enjoyable or pronounced, but the other way around, too. If I recall correctly, this might be able to be explained on account of nicotine's action on opioid receptors - I believe I read this to be true a while ago, but wouldn't swear to it. Certainly known is the effect nicotine via other mechanisms of action it exerts, though it has been a while since I've read up on as much. Still, I feel the exact facts are fairly unnecessary for the purposes of explaining what you experienced. Now, it sounds to me like the sudden ingestion of the large dose of nicotine you administered with the dip, did have a synergistic effect with the hydrocodone, assuming you did not use more tobacco than you can usually well-tolerate while not on any opiates, and you experienced certain effects of the hydrocodone much less subtly than you would have otherwise, including the bodily sensation of 'vibrating' and the sedation which led to the classic opiate-induced nod. Now, as for the nausea, heaving, and abdominal pain, all of those could be attributed, if they had to be, to the effects of an opiate or nicotine, and particularly in combination, however I think, there, something a little different happened, though I don't think the combination of hydrocodone and nicotine helped it any, and likely did make it more severe.

But, here is my trouble. You say that for you the 'buzzes' from hydrocodone are 'barely noticeable ... until they reach the severe stomach pain threshold...' Okay, I automatically get the sense that you are suggesting hydrocodone is a fairly 'weak' opiate for you, as it is currently available in combination with NSAID's, or more commonly, APAP, and you realize there is some boundary with the APAP, because too much of it can cause damage, specifically to the liver, in the short-term at higher doses and in the long-term at higher doses. In any event, it seems you realize there is some sort of a ceiling with hydrocodone use on account of something beyond the hydrocodone, and that would, more often than not, be the APAP. But, then you say that you took a good amount of hydrocodone, which I cannot define - how many tablets of what strength, and what was the hydrocodone mixed with? So, it seems that you experience more noticeable effects from hydrocodone when you take more tablets (whatever they are, assuming they are hydrocodone/APAP), which makes sense because it would be more hydrocodone, but it would make sense why that 'severe stomach pain threshold' might be crossed, and not on account of the hydrocodone in the tablets you are taking, but on account of the APAP, quite likely, or even an NSAID like ibuprofen, which is the other part of that tablet and can cause, at a high enough dose, the stomach pain you are describing. So, just in that, I am gathering you might be consuming too much APAP, or whatever other ingredient might be in the hydrocodone combination tablets. And, I think when the nausea came on in this experience, it was likely mostly due to the hydrocodone and nicotine, which likely set into a series of events the very bad pain you were experiencing and the heaving, although I think the APAP or other ingredient in the tablets caused that particularly severe abdominal pain that you experienced - do I think the hydrocodone and nicotine made it worse to contend with? Yes, probably so. But, I highly doubt the combination of the hydrocodone and the nicotine, as two distinct drugs, brought forth heaving and upper abdominal pain that was so bad it was frightening even you, and you seem to say you've experienced milder versions of such pain before. And, I would guess, as I think I did sort of conclude, the normal 'threshold' you mentioned with respect to the 'severe stomach pain' is broken when you take too much APAP or other ingredient in the tablet with the hydrocodone, and if it is not APAP, it makes sense it could be ibuprofen or aspirin, and cause you the stomach pain possibly more easily than APAP would. But, in a pill like that, it is usually APAP - What am I driving at? I don't think you realize that you have been dosing far too much APAP, on account of it causing stomach pain, when you take enough of the tablets so that there is enough hydrocodone to get you high, and depending on the dose of APAP you took, assuming it was that, to cause pain of that severity the other night, I am concerned, too, because you obviously took too much APAP. HOWEVER, I do not know how much APAP you did take, or if it was something else, how much of that you took. For your safety, however, it would be best to find out exactly what type of hydrocodone tablets they were and the strength of all of the ingredients in them. If you have no real way to do that, I suggest just saying what you think you took, in number, in what they were exactly, and in strength. I don't want to scare you, but APAP toxicity can lack many acute symptoms that don't outwardly present themselves. Again, I don't want to scare you - I have taken too much APAP with my opiates, before, and have been fine except for a little stomach pain and some stomach sensitivity after dosing and/or the next day. However, I don't know what you took, in nature, number, or amount. And, that concerns me a little bit. Usually, APAP toxicity is fairly drawn-out, and I do believe there is some treatment even a day or maybe two after you've taken a toxic dose of APAP; it probably, at least, warrants a good examination, maybe in the ER, but I am just going by what I read when you tell me this, and no actual numbers. In the future, though, if you want to take hydrocodone that is bound with something else, or oxycodone, or codeine that is bound with APAP or something else, see if you can perform a CWE (cold water extraction), so you spare yourself unnecessary, and potentially harmful, high doses of APAP. I do hope you will respond as to what you took, exactly, and then even if I am not on BL, others should be able to chime in.
 
I took a good amount of hydro the other day and was feeling alright (hydro buzzes are barely noticeable for me until they reach the severe stomach pain threshold....), and then put a dip in. As soon as the nicotine kicked in my whole body was vibrating and I began to nod. It felt awesome. But in 10 minutes or so, the buzz gave way to nausea, and then that terrible upper abdominal pain. I dry heaved but never puked. The pain lasted for an hour afterward and I was tempted to go to the ER, 'cause that shit hurt. I was wondering if someone could tell me what happened here.



Did you do a CWE (cold water extraction) on the hydrocodone?

If you didn't, there's your answer for the abdominal pain.

APAP (Tylenol) isn't any good when taking more than 3,000mgs in one day for your liver......if you don't know what CWE is, Google it or look it up on this site......remover the Tylenol before ingesting large amounts of vicodin.
 
Did you do a CWE (cold water extraction) on the hydrocodone?

If you didn't, there's your answer for the abdominal pain.

APAP (Tylenol) isn't any good when taking more than 3,000mgs in one day for your liver......if you don't know what CWE is, Google it or look it up on this site......remover the Tylenol before ingesting large amounts of vicodin.

Always CWE when taking 10+ hydrocodone pills is sort of my rule of thumb, and don't let 1000mg hit your liver at one time. I can't imagine you feeling much "pain" since you were on a high dose of painkillers OP lol but I know exactly what you are talking about, it's sort of like an "upset stomach" type of discomfort accompanied with a bit of nausea. Smoking cigarettes have definitely sent the nausea over the edge for me during my first few opiate binges. The reason for this, is that some of the nerve endings that are stimulated by nicotine are in your stomach and bowels (this also explains why some people feel the urge to "poop" after/during smoking a cigarette). So your stomach, in it's relaxed mode, is suddenly being stimulated, and the effect is being potentiated by the opiods.

This synergestic effect can make you feel AWESOME at first (I chain smoke on an ope binge lol) but if you over do it, you will become dysphoric and ruin it for yourself. If you are easily susceptible to nausea (like I myself am), then simply have a small fatty meal before taking the hydrocodone, take a few then smoke and see how that goes(this is usually what I always do, I eat just enough so that it doesnt take away from the high but doesnt make me sick later). If that doesn't work, try combinations like phenergan (promethazine) if you can get it somehow, works awesome takes nausea away completely! Or some diphenhydramine (the stuff in sleeping pills, or more commonly, Zzzquil) to reduce the nausea.

BEWARE combining them though it can be dangerous as hell for your breathing. Just take a benadryl, wait to see how that feels, then take a responsible amount of opiates, then go from there based on how you feel.
 
Thank you for your responses! I took 6 5/325's. I have heard of CWE, but haven't tried it because I'm afraid I'll mess up and waste the opiate. But something worth noting I suppose is that I'm only 130 lbs and have zero tolerance to opiates (I take them at the most once every few months). Despite being so naive to hydro, it really doesn't seem to do much to me until I feel as if I'm ODing. As for the APAP, I'm don't think that's what's causing the pain because the pain seems to intensify after I ingest the nicotine. As it was happening, I actually googled hydrocodone overdose on my phone (which was challenging because I couldn't focus my eyes lol) and one of the symptoms was upper abdominal pain.

sghouston5, it is actual pain. It was kind of a severe ache, like that part of my stomach was bruised. Hopefully that makes sense. Also wouldn't taking antihistamines be bad because it would potentate the opiate even further?
 
Thank you for your responses! I took 6 5/325's. I have heard of CWE, but haven't tried it because I'm afraid I'll mess up and waste the opiate. But something worth noting I suppose is that I'm only 130 lbs and have zero tolerance to opiates (I take them at the most once every few months). Despite being so naive to hydro, it really doesn't seem to do much to me until I feel as if I'm ODing. As for the APAP, I'm don't think that's what's causing the pain because the pain seems to intensify after I ingest the nicotine. As it was happening, I actually googled hydrocodone overdose on my phone (which was challenging because I couldn't focus my eyes lol) and one of the symptoms was upper abdominal pain.

sghouston5, it is actual pain. It was kind of a severe ache, like that part of my stomach was bruised. Hopefully that makes sense. Also wouldn't taking antihistamines be bad because it would potentate the opiate even further?

That explains a good bit lol. 30mg your first time of hydro? You must have had a pretty wonderful time! (until you got sick of course)

People potentiate opes...ALL the time. The only reason people OD or risk death on them is because they do not take it in proper controllable doses. You are trying to cancel out nausea and that is (unfortunately in higher doses) a side effect of opiods. Take one capsule of benadryl, wait to see how you feel, then take LESS of the hydrocodone (say 20mg instead of 30). But that twenty, being potentiated will not only last a bit longer and reduce nausea, will "feel" like 25mg. Sounds strange, but it really does work that way as far as the recreational feeling goes.

You could always potentiate with a couple beers. Two lortabs and one beer always made me feel nice, never nauseated when I first began taking pain meds. Beer/alcohol potentiates opiates even further than antihistamines too, so you really need to be careful in that regard.

I've combined ecstasy, shrooms, hash, xanax, fentanyl, marijuana, and DMT all in one night (a fair amount of each drug too) within a period of like 16-18 hours and lived to tell about it. Of course, there is no way in hell you should ever try anything remotely close to that, I highly recommend against that. But at the time, I was experienced, spaced things out and knew what I was doing.

Besides, even taking 30mg and one or two benadryl OR a beer or two will definitely not be fatal to you. You might pass out and sleep really easily, but if you enjoyed 30mg with little turbulence it would probably take two to three times that before you started seeing very notable signs of respiratory depression. I have known guys to literally eat OC 80mgs, then eat another one an hour later, and even more throughout the day OC being roughly 1.5x stronger than hydro. Don't even get me started on the heroin lol.

You'll be fine. I was afraid my first few times, spent a lot of time on internet forums worrying. Just BE CAREFUL and dose what you feel is right. Dosing more than you are comfortable with can make you anxious and not enjoy the feeling.

If you happen to keep indulging in opiods though, you will find that nausea from smoking cigarettes will go away. Cigarettes are considerably more enjoyable on opiods and that is in fact the only time I smoke them. Can't stand that nasty ass smell sober lol. But it's like a sauna for the lungs when your high on painkillers.

YOU GOT THIS MAN! GO OUT AND HAVE FUN. Be responsible though!
 
I am surprised, and relieved, to read you took only 6 5/325's - I was guessing the dose would've been higher on account of the fairly rapidly acting effects of severe abdominal pain, which I was attributing to the APAP. But, if you seem to be of good health and constitution, and your liver is healthy, the dose of APAP you took doesn't really concern me. Would a CWE be better, even for that? Yes, but I was thinking you were in rather higher range of APAP dosing. Now, this all is good, so far, but the APAP, even at the dose you took, could have, at the least, contributed to the severe abdominal pain, because everyone is different.

Something that does concern me, however, is that you are taking enough of an opiate to induce relatively bizarre symptoms, such as severe abdominal pain, not just nausea, or even just nausea and vomiting. It sounds like you do have a low natural tolerance to opiates, which is something that does vary quite a bit from one person to the next, even if you do not experience euphoria much below doses which cause such side-effects, not to mention side-effects which are somewhat odd (even for high doses of an opiate) and also very unpleasant (severe abdominal pain and heaving, the pain much more concerning). Opiates do effect people differently, and not just in sensitivity - some people love them to death, some really like them here and there, some can appreciate a lower dose, some go for a higher dose, some feel mentally/physically uncomfortable on opiates, some aren't really effected by the good or bad, some hate them, and so on. To me, based on the much appreciated follow-up post, it sounds like you are just taking too much of the opiate - in this case, too much of the hydrocodone. In fact, even if not dangerous, and I am not saying whether it might be or not for you, I would stay away from high doses, which, for you, are the only doses that really do much for you with respect to euphoria (as you reported), so I suggest, actually, you stop, altogether. After all, you only take them once every few months, so you don't have to fight off any potential addiction, and it sounds like such a chore to get high. Now, the alternative advice I might give to you, other than stopping, altogether, would be to try a dose of say 15 mg hydrocodone the next time, in a few months or so, and say to yourself that you are giving yourself the opportunity to learn and appreciate the opiate euphoria of a lower dose (which can be hard, especially for those who don't use them regularly - like at least once or twice weekly), and if you don't get it at 15 mg, don't re-dose, just ride it out as it is. Want to try the same a few months from then? Still, try 15 mg. I know that it can take a really long while for some to actually acquire the opiate taste, at which point a dose of 15 mg hydrocodone to the individual with no tolerance becomes quite pleasant and the euphoria becomes apparent. Although, I think you might be the kind of person who just doesn't 'get along' well with opiates - if it takes what you perceive as a near-OD, and what could have been as much from how it sounds, to feel something substantial from the opiate, it is not worthwhile to put yourself through opiates, at all, even if once every few months.

And, anti-histamines are not the answer for what you've described; if you had described a touch of nausea, I would have first recommended keeping to a position where you are still and seated or lying down (which would have probably done the trick for something like that or even nausea a bit more intense), although a small dose of an anti-histamine dosed before a 'familiar' opiate dose would be, though not my personal advice, still not typically dangerous under these hypothetical circumstances; BUT, your circumstances are different. You realize, yourself, how high you have to dose to feel good off an opiate, which is dangerous to begin with, not to mention how you often perceive fairly severe abdominal pain and discomfort as a side-effect which accompanies your regular dose to have a euphoric opiate experience (and this time, this pain nearly sent you to the ER by your own choice, which IS NOT NORMAL OR HEALTHY when using safe doses of opiates, without nicotine or a ton of nicotine). So, please, really consider just hanging up your hat when it comes to opiates and calling it quits for good; I have a strong feeling that is better than even trying to accustom yourself to a lower dose.
 
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opiates have a tendency to induce nausea type symptoms in susceptable individuals, whether or not related to the cigarette i don't know, i doubt it to be honest. all i know is that smoking while on 32 neurofen plus made my stomach hurt even more so due to the ibuprofen. cigarettes are nasty when there is an excess amount of gastric acid in the stomach or something irritating the lining of it.
 
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