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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

opiates for pain

thats good as.
it sounds like bupe in its various forms is more affective at treating addiction.
i've never been hooked on opiates, but when i had the suboxone i felt alot more normal and content, whilst when i had methadone it kind of felt like something was missing yet some of the methadone effects were quite pronounced, i could see how that could lead to people upping their dose when it wasn't really required.

thats coming from someone whos not trying to treat withdrawals though, so if bupe satisfies withdrawals on a lower equivalent dose to methadone it kinda sounds like win win.
is there a reason bupe formulations aren't used more? or is it just something i've overlooked lol
 
misk said:
had another go at getting the correct methadone dose and ended up having 50mg (30mg to start then 20 after an hour) and it was a completely different experience.
last time it felt like i was just on a shitty codeine dose, this time def had pain relief, no jittery anxious feeling and found it much more sedating and relaxing - even a few nods.

i know its not the same for everyone, especially not for people on maintenance, but i found it quite good, finding the right dose can take a bit of trial and error, as long as you err on the side of caution and don't have a large or unknown dose.
you can always take more, but you're fucked if you take too much.
i'd also suggest having some anti-histamines on hand if you are inexperienced, i've been itchy as fuck for agges lol
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lol few nods my ass cunt
u were almost snoozin on my shoulder
surprised u took the 50mg well as u did
id kill to get that effect from that much , i jst gave up n started lowering dose
atleast im out of the rut of being high so often.
twice a month max maybe , occasional ciggi
 
misk said:
thats good as.
it sounds like bupe in its various forms is more affective at treating addiction.
i've never been hooked on opiates, but when i had the suboxone i felt alot more normal and content, whilst when i had methadone it kind of felt like something was missing yet some of the methadone effects were quite pronounced, i could see how that could lead to people upping their dose when it wasn't really required.

thats coming from someone whos not trying to treat withdrawals though, so if bupe satisfies withdrawals on a lower equivalent dose to methadone it kinda sounds like win win.
is there a reason bupe formulations aren't used more? or is it just something i've overlooked lol
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bupe with naloxone(?) is the preffered route , i hear u cant get str8 bupe tabs now coz cunts just wakk it
 
^subutex is definitely still available in australia. it's the only form of buprenorphine, apart from the transdermal patches, i've ever used.

doctors are dickheads and are under the impression that the nalaxone will send you into precipitated withdrawals if you do inject the suboxone - which we all know is a load of bollocks.
 
2nd that I'd only had subutex before the patches before. Never even seen suboxone (though I know it's around).

@Misk - To answer your question I think it is because Bupe is very new to the market in comparison to alternatives like morphine. Oxy gained precedence when morphine was being abused (injected) and doctors where happy to quickly accept the oxy which doesn't have that BA divide which makes it easier for most people to just take orally. Also because the US doesn't use it for pain control, as it's only recommended for addicts, probably would have had some bearing. Although we follow the UK a lot, everyone is still influenced by the US.
 
I am by no means an expert on ORT but I was under the impression suboxone was much more prevalent than subutex and that subutex is mainly prescribed to pregnant women and people who claim to be allergic or aversive to naloxone. In saying that subutex is most certainly not discontinued.

I didn't think the naloxone in suboxone had an effect when IV'd because I was under the impression buprenorphine had a higher affinity than nalaoxone and therefore renders it useless, but I have never used buprenorphine or injected opioids so I don't know this to be the case from experience and could well be wrong.

It really would be quite amusing if doctors don't realise suboxone is IV'able and it is, just another example of how limited health care "professional's" knowledge can be when it comes to recreational drugs and/or drug addiction.
 
My doctor knew about the naloxone doing nothing and people still shooting them. Well tablets are going to be gone soon replaced what those subl strips
I was under the impression that naloxone is only really there to prevent OD's if the patient already has another opiate in there system already.

I think naloxone is only active IV not orally or subling like naltrexone HCl. Plus Naloxone only last 1 hour or so and bupe takes 2 hours to peak so it makes little difference to the high in the end.
I have tried subutex, suboxone, temgesic and 20mg Norspan Transdermal Patchs. The patches are good if you extract the goodies but suck using them as patches i got a rash and itchy. Some junkies showed me if you soak it in lemon juice for a while you can shoot that. I used to leave mine soaking in a solution (i think was lemon juice) for a while then put under the tongue and suck on the patch for a while then put it back in another solution to make sure i got all the goodies.
I recon bupe should be OTC like codeine even just temgesic 200 mcg. I find it much more effective than codeine for managing pain, its got that long half life and lacking the euphoria of codeine/morphine etc.
I'm glad i never got on a opiate maintenance program because you end up with a massive opiate tolerance without the fun of tradition opiates.
 
^^ that came up in discussion with a mate lol.
he reckons the naloxone isn't absorbed if done sub lingual, but didn't sound right if thats the recommended ROA.

there seems to be a huge gap in the dose given for pain vs treatment for addiction and what not with bupe.
i would have thought a dose of .2mg would do fuck all.

edit - forgot to hit submit lol, i was replying to D_M, but doesn't make much difference.
 
Subutex is used for pain management in the UK and Aus (but not the US). There are heaps of articles talking about suboxone on bluelight but you'll find a lot of the posters are from the US.

I myself am a pain patient and have never been treated for addiction, so I've seen pretty much every opioid available except suboxone. I also haven't seen methadone but that can be used for long term pain management from what I gather as well.

In hospitals now if you are on the ward they like to use pill based painkillers (rather than injections) so the patient can continue administering it to themselves after they discharge. Subutex is generally given with oxycodone if oxycodone doesn't provide adequate pain relief at times (if it is all the time they will most likely just go to a more powerful analgesic).
 
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I shot up 4mg of buprenorphine followed by another 3mg a couple hours after (I was pissed when I had the first shot and kept drinkin all the way until the second shot :\ ) and well, it busted me...

Moral of the story.. shootin up too much bupe when pissed at a pub will make you vomit and nodd off all night and half the following day ;) ohh and wake up with a $200 fine :X:X:X:X:X
 
readin the last 5 or 6 posts im prety sure ur shit outa luck tryin to get str8 bupe pills prescribed , unless u have a baby in ur stomach , wich rules out most of us .

im on 115mg methadone , what dose wld it be safe to take a suboxone 8mg to "test" its effects, n shld i skip a dose ,

iv heard around 40mg id have to ween down to , fukn wish i knew more bout suboxone b4 i started the done , everyones telln me to get off it , suboxones not as bad for u yada yada ... it takes me a dose n half a takeaway (170ish) to get noddy, no euphoria or anxiety/stress releif like oxy or morphine though , just sittin full bent over with my head almost touchin my shoes lol

i gave a close mate 50mg the other week and he was fucked for over 24 hours , prick... :p
 
leftwing said:
^subutex is definitely still available in australia. it's the only form of buprenorphine, apart from the transdermal patches, i've ever used.

doctors are dickheads and are under the impression that the nalaxone will send you into precipitated withdrawals if you do inject the suboxone - which we all know is a load of bollocks.
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maybe my prescribers jst a fuckstick then , well iv already gathered that when he lagged in my gp for the amount of xanax he prescribes me

my gp told me of a diff prescriber closer to me that he knows personally and in his words "isnt such a cockhead" lol, i only knew of the ones posted in the opiate maintenance thread n jst pikd the closest to me .

if only they used morphine pills as a maintenance drug, i wlda been on and off it already n not havin to wait 20 months to ween off the done wich basically has only gotten me used not bein high daily ( yes i know thats a good thing ) and now if i dont dose atleast every 48 hrs i get all irritable n sweaty n hot n cold flushes that annoy the fuck outa me

prob wlda been easier goin bak on codeine n weenin off that 50mg a week , imo

leftwing: r u stil on my msn? or vice versa , needed to ask ya sumfin other week

misk said:
^^ that came up in discussion with a mate lol.
he reckons the naloxone isn't absorbed if done sub lingual, but didn't sound right if thats the recommended ROA.

there seems to be a huge gap in the dose given for pain vs treatment for addiction and what not with bupe.
i would have thought a dose of .2mg would do fuck all.

edit - forgot to hit submit lol, i was replying to D_M, but doesn't make much difference.
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ur mates on the right track , the reason of the naloxone being there is to stop ppl wakkin it . wich works in that theory lol i duno anyone whos been game enuff to do it
, it may be absorbed in ur stomach cld be why sublingual is pref roa . jst a idea i duno
 
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leigh12 said:
readin the last 5 or 6 posts im prety sure ur shit outa luck tryin to get str8 bupe pills prescribed , unless u have a baby in ur stomach , wich rules out most of us .

im on 115mg methadone , what dose wld it be safe to take a suboxone 8mg to "test" its effects, n shld i skip a dose ,

iv heard around 40mg id have to ween down to , fukn wish i knew more bout suboxone b4 i started the done , everyones telln me to get off it , suboxones not as bad for u yada yada ... it takes me a dose n half a takeaway (170ish) to get noddy, no euphoria or anxiety/stress releif like oxy or morphine though , just sittin full bent over with my head almost touchin my shoes lol

i gave a close mate 50mg the other week and he was fucked for over 24 hours , prick... :p
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When I tried methadone for the first time I was fucked for over 24 hours as well, I didn't enjoy it at all though. There was no euphoria like other opiates, I just felt dumb. Each to their own, though.

I've heard naloxone can give some people horrendous migraine headaches, which may be a reason to switch to subutex if the prescriber agrees. From what I understand though, buprenorphine has a higher affinity than naloxone for opiate receptors, so injecting suboxone or subutex shouldn't make an iota of difference.

You don't want to take bupe on your current dose of methadone. I highly doubt skipping one dose would be sufficient. It would take quite a few days for a daily dose of 115mg to leave your system, and you don't want to go into precipitated withdrawals, which will happen if you're on methadone.

I have a friend who went into hospital for detox who was on done. His usual dose was 80mg, but (like you) they wanted him down to 40mg before they would even consider giving him bupe. From memory, after he was down to 40mg of done, they had him waiting 2 days before they administered the bupe and he said that was the hardest part of the whole ordeal, the precipitated withdrawals brought on by the bupe. After a short bupe taper, they gave him naltrexone, which he says was no where near as bad as going from done to bupe.
 
yeh i know what ya mean, its a very dull nod compared to others. very heavy n uncontrollable tho at same time, if u do take a effective dose .

and nah i meant once iv weened down enuff to switch to subs, do i need to skip a dose or two b4 startin the other. but u answered that sorta anyway

iv also heard of naltrexone or nalaxone 24 hr rapid detox, and they can put u to sleep so u dont have to put up with the shittness of it . just sumfin i heard anyway , sorta seems to ez a solution

tho havn to go to chemist 4 times a week doesnt bother me really, the switch to bupe wld
mainly b to make others happy coz they wont shut the fuck up bout it . and it bein a much easier way of gettn off opiates, tho theyr all pretty clueless wen it comes to drug education
 
Back pain.

What is the best treatment for back pain? I fucked my back up and my doc has given me Codeine Forte which does jack shit.

I'm thinking OxyNorm - 20 mg maybe?

Gimme you stories of acquiring your experience with REAL pain and what drugs you were on?

Moderators: This is an important thread so don't get rid of it.
 
Completely depends on what is causing the pain.

I had bad back pain a couple of years ago. Physiotherapy and psychotherapy was effective, no drugs were. Most back pain has a psychological component, so don't rule that out.
 
The best treatment would seldom be drugs on their own, as Divine Moments said it depends on the injury as there is more than one way to fuck your back. Really you should see a physiotherapist and figure out if there is a stretching or mild resistance training routine that could be beneficial for your injury.

I actually messed my back up pretty good in my mid teens doing something silly while lifting weights, I went to physio for ages and while it had helped to an extent the pain just wasn't leaving. I don't even remember who or where I picked up the suggestion of acupuncture from but it just so happened around that time a doctor clinic opened up offering bulk billed acupuncture. I had to go once a fortnight for a few months before the pain had totally left but I felt the benefits straight away, anyone who knows me in real life would tell you I am the last person to buy into alternative therapies or weird medicines but I can vouch first hand that acupunture helped me a whole lot.

I feel like I should mention that I continued to see my physiotherapist and do my stretches and back strengthening exercises during the time I was getting acupuncture and this undoubtedly contributed to the overall effectiveness of it.

I really don't see focusing on what opiate to get as the best way to resolve your back problems the quickest, I would think for chronic pain though that the controlled release form of oxycodone (OxyContin) would be more useful than an IR formulation like oxynorm but can't comment whether or not oxy would be the best drug in general.

I am merging this with the existing Opiates for pain thread.
 
the conversion table on that page is particularly informative

Drug Dose x Conversion Factor
Pethidine (oral) x 0.125
Pethidine (IV) x 0.4
Methadone x 1.5
Oxycodone x 1.5
Buprenorphine x 50
Codeine x 0.16
Dextropropoxyphene x 0.1
Morphine (IV) x 3
Morphine (oral) x 1

so for example a 6 X 30 mg codiene tablets X 0.16 = 28.8mg morphine equiv dose.
 
Merged this into the existing opiates for pain thread and fixed up the link for you.
 
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