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Opiate Withdrawal.

Herbavore, thank you for your words. I printed this page out and put it on the wall next to my screen so I can get back into it when need arises. I'll definately check out books by Craig Childs and put Apocalyptic Planet to my reading list.

I am still planning to visit U.S. but because I start opiate replacement therapy I'll have to wait for some time because in here we have to go to health center each day to get our dose under supervision for few months before we can get doses home. Longer trip will therefore take some planning on that area too as I thought I'd be opiate free when I start my trip but things went different than I planned.

I definately don't want any problems with customs or LE in the states and I might even had to get prescription there too if I stay longer than few weeks.

Sometimes I feel like I am addicted to planning, building, watching, discussing or just imagining something new. I get bored if there isn't something new happening all the time but at the same time I forget that there is always something new if you do something about it. Don't know if this makes any sense :)
 
MrRoot said:
Sometimes I feel like I am addicted to planning, building, watching, discussing or just imagining something new. I get bored if there isn't something new happening all the time but at the same time I forget that there is always something new if you do something about it. Don't know if this makes any sense :)
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This sounds like the human condition and human nature at its finest! Makes perfect sense to me. I hope one day to over come it to a certain degree, but I also hope to never totally move past it.

I feel like it is the basis for what makes us spiritual creatures, the need to grow and become what we are not now, and into then something even greater.
 
toothpastedog said:
A lot of former heroin addicts who never particularly used alcohol end up switching and becoming alcoholics once they quit using heroin for some reason, it isn't uncommon. Problem is, that is probably even more unhealthy than using dope, or at least as bad in the long run, even if it legal and socially acceptable to a degree.

Probably not the best suggestion to use alcohol to cope with heroin cravings.
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Being a heroin addict and being an alcoholic is equaly bad to my opinion, but the thing is that alcohol is much slower to get you realy addicted.
 
Coming from heroin (5 years) methadone 120mg 1 year and Suboxone (about a month) I'm on day 5 of cold turkey and I haven't slept a single minute in 4 days, can't eat (comes right back out) barely drink anything, can't sit still I'm a complete freaking head case! This site helps though for people that need to vent. Alcohol is expensive and trading 1 habit for a possible other is risky that's why I'm not drinking. I've heard hangover on withdrawal will just about kill you too. Good luck , as you see there's alot of us in the same situation!
 
xxsicknessxx said:
9years of real opiet abuse.
vic, perc, ox, rox, fentanl, herion, suboxen, methadone.
I have done it all and I have abused it all and I have withdrawn from it all.

Nothing helps opiet withdrawl. Nothing. even benzos never helped if anything it made it worse. you may be able to get rid of your anixety with smoking or drinking or downers however that feeling of dying of your skelaton trying to jump out of your body of your skin crawling, the feelings will not stop. You have a few choices.

1.suboxen (this is the only way I can stay clean I have tried staying sober off it and I can't)
2. ween down then off (and just suck it up)
3. Just take the withdraw

Opiet withdraw over all other drugs of which I have tried them all except crack. I will say is prob the worst withdraw because it gets worse day by day. Booze... I felt dead day one but day two I felt less dead. Opiets I felt dead day one then more dead day two. and it got worse and worse till i wanted to cut my self and die, and kill, and destroy everything. the depression and hate built and built... well anyways .. all im saying is either ween down and suck it up or get on suboxon and except it.
suboxon works very very well and you only need a small dose like 2 mg a day. I used take 16mg a day and i weened down now to 8mg a day and im fine I plant to go to 2mg a day. This is after 9years strait of abuse of all drugs but mainly opiets... so if I can do it so can you. withdraw sucks and in my exp nothing makes it better, other drugs always made it much much worse and booze by far made it worse because it made me stupid and made me miss opiets it made my depression worse...

The only drug that might help your withdraw is stims. Meth or something a small line. It will help a lot in fact, I used it before to get off ox. Just don't switch one addiction for another, I never really got hooked on meth for some reason so I could use it to get off of other drugs easy, then quit it when I was done. beside that suboxon is a good idea. I don't rec. drinking btw drinking withdraw is horrible (I mean horrible) don't get hooked on it. plus when the booze does your body no favors, give that liver a chance bro. You don't want a bad liver (from exp) at 28 I have a bad liver, its not cool.
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You're definitely right about nothing helping and how it seems to get worse before getting the least bit better.

As much as I hate to admit it, suboxone replacement therapy is the only real relief.

A friend once said to me "at least subs are like buying drugs from the government. And you never get ripped off and its consistent plus for the first year you catch a little buzz"

Sad but true.
 
(Starting from 150 mg/day)I'm on the 8th 90mg day on my taper. I cheated yesterday and took an extra 30mg. I feel pretty guilty for cheating, but it felt really nice to get some relief. I'm trying to cross over to 60 mg/day, but I have been unsuccessful for 4 days now. My guess is I'll have more luck if I aim for 75 mg/day.
 
I highly recommend to anyone trying to taper- find someone to hold and ration your pills. I consider myself to have pretty strong willpower, but I just don't care enough to not take that extra pill in the evening and relax.
Oh well.... At least I am feeling very calm about the whole situation right now.
My guess is that I'll eventually get down to 60 mg/day and then just go cold turkey from there.
 
Squeaky -

Mr. Root introduced me to something called a "time lock safe." Maybe you could invest in one of those? Undoubtedly, there are issues with that (I.e., there has to be a key somewhere, not to mention that everyone has a hammer), but I'm no good at tapering either and so I'm gonna try it out. If I have to go get a key, I don't think I'll do it. It's the easy access that gets me every time.

Tapering off your DOC (or drug of necessity, as the case may be for some) is just so against the nature of an addict. I honestly don't understand how an addict can taper, yet not be able to control their intake in active addiction...

Sorry for the ramble. Good luck on keeping up the taper! I think we all know how hard it is and can empathize with your position. I wish I had more words of wisdom, but I'm all out of wisdom for the moment I'm afraid.

- VE
 
I jumped off the wagon a couple of days ago. Still not up to the 150 mg/day I started at, but I did take 60 mg oxy in an hour and paid for it that night and the next day. Oxy hangovers suck, especially when I was trying to taper down. Made me feel like a big loser.
Anyway I'm back to 90 mg yesterday, and I'll aim for 75 mg today. My progress has been anything but textbook, but I guess that getting F'd up at 30 mg less than my previous maintenance dose means I have made progress. That's good right?
 
That's awesome, I admire your willpower, especially since you've mentioned you're not short on your DOC.

I think tapering is the best way to get off any DOC... I wish I could do it that way. Usually end up using until I run out of money. Sometimes when I know my funds are getting low I'll conserve what I have and just suck it up but usually the addiction part takes over the willpower part of my brain...feel kinda good a few times or feel really good one time?

Don't give up like I said if you can tough it out then tapering is the best way to go but I think it's most effective when it's drawn out over the course of a couple weeks and not reducing the dose too drastically from day to day. For example, take 10mg less than your regular dose each day.

Wish you the best of luck.
 
VastEmpty said:
Squeaky -

Mr. Root introduced me to something called a "time lock safe." Maybe you could invest in one of those? Undoubtedly, there are issues with that (I.e., there has to be a key somewhere, not to mention that everyone has a hammer), but I'm no good at tapering either and so I'm gonna try it out. If I have to go get a key, I don't think I'll do it. It's the easy access that gets me every time.
- VE
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Because I taper often, well, try to taper often, as I want to accumulate an extra stash of opioids for emergency situations, and I also do not want to ever experience cold turkey withdrawal, that I did buy a time lock safe! It was manufactured in Florida, and I was able to speak to the inventor several times via telephone. He was so nice regarding the key situation... he offered to hold the key, and would mail it back to me in an emergency. However, I located a trustworthy relative to hide it in my home,
knowing that I would only ask him for the key in an urgent situation. So I virtually have only the timelock itself and cannot cheat. There is also a youtube video, 7 minutes long, illustrating how to use it. This past month, I used it often, as my tolerance was building, and I needed to lower it. I love the safe! you can lock it for as short a time period as 1 minute or as long as 999 days.
When I use it I am successful. However, the issue is that I need to be motivated enough to actually use it. I will probably use it at least the first week of September when I first get my one refill, as I tend to want to use extra when it looks like there are so many pills there.
Good luck, no matter what method you try!


Sometimes I have to laugh at myself... just waiting for the timer to go off so that the safe can be unlocked! It reminds me of grade school waiting for the bell to ring for recess.
 
Nice that you have found that it helps you to control yourself.

I can relate for that feeling when waiting for timer to get off. Sometimes I check the timer and it is 5 minutes until it opens and I go outside and vape some and get back just to see that it is still four minutes so I check my mail and latest news, still 3 minutes, anxiously do some exercise movements, still 2 minutes, go back to vape and then count the seconds out loud while in front of the device :P

I have now started to use this doser that has drugs for a week inside it and dispenses them three times a day. It is filled in the health center and it really helps because I don't need to go get my drugs daily so I can travel without going the hassle of begging the staff to give permission for handing out multiple days worth of drugs to me. I don't either have enough willpower currently to not abuse if there would be for example three days worth of drugs in my pockets.

wbsc92.jpg

http://www.addoz.com/en-tuotteet/

Also with the daily dispension from the health center I would have to take my morning dose there and it was pretty hard to get up and drag myself to a car to get there because before I had always took my morning dose when still in bed and wait for a while until I could function properly.

P.S.
I got a newer version last time I went to get it filled and the newest version sends out txt messages to my nurse or health center's emergency department depending of the time if I tamper with it. Older one just would have recorded time and date if some tampering would have been done.

P.P.S
TPD if you happen to read this maybe this timed doser and timed safe should be put to a some of the sticky threads? I can see that it could a lot of people and work as a harm reduction even in the cases when people intentionally abuse since one could put for example rest of his Ambien into timed safe so he doesn't use the whole bottle at once.
 
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What an interesting way of dispensing your meds! You must have intensive oversight in that you had daily dispension of your medications before going to the high tech med box and getting them filled weekly. That type of service is not in existence at my pain management clinic... we visit once monthly to get our prescriptions... we do not have refills available here for opioids... original written copies of prescriptions are the only way I can get my medications (I am given a 30 day supply each time). Then, we drop our ua so that the clinic can test at what levels of concentration our prescribed medications are present in our systems and also that we are not taking any other meds. Of course, vitals are taken, and a brief verbal check in, and that is it.

However, for ORT, which is something I have no experience with, the policies and procedures are different. Are you on ORT?

Finland certainly has great health care benefits for its citizens!
 
To all on this thread: Herbavore has helped me start a tapering/ social support thread and I encourage any of you who are tapering, thinking of tapering, or have experience tapering please feel free to post. I really would love the support! It is here on The Dark Side, and as it is also a social thread, we can talk about other aspects of our lives as well as our addiction and tapering struggles and experiences.

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/801736-Thoughts-on-a-tapering-supportive-social-thread
 
That tapering thread is a very good idea. I'll write some experiences of my own to that thread since this spring I slowly tapered down from a 160mgs oxycodone to zero with none difficulties or uncomfortability while doing it.

Currently all of my drugs are prescribed by one Dr. and I have signed a contract which prevents me from obtaining drugs from any other Dr. than who works at our local health center. Pharmacies in here won't dispense anything CNS affecting drug from other doctors. I have weekly visit to a nurse who is specialized in addiction treatment and we have roughly 15 minutes available for discussion and I get my doser filled at the same time. I'll give my ua test two days before the appointment so results from that test are available during it. I also see a Dr. every month or more often if needed.

My drugs are dispensed by pharmacy but instead of giving them to me they directly courier them to the health center.

This a standard practise here for people with an addiction and pain. Before this I used to get prescriptions from multiple doctors and worked my way around the system which in theory should prevent multiple prescriptions for opioids to be given.

I am so pleased for saying straight to a Dr. that I am addicted because now things are in control and I feel (and some have said that I even look :) ) much more healthier than before.

All of these arrangements are done in a public health center and it doesn't cost anything for me except for the drugs.

I am starting ORT under two weeks now and there are plenty of regulations for that here. For example I have to get my dose under supervision for three months before I can get any dose with me. Also ORT is started inpatient and I'll stay there roughly for a month.
 
This dispenser thing is interesting to me. I don't have that here either. I'm exactly like POkemama. Once a month, get scripts, a very thorough piss test and that's it. And they don't budge for shit. Very strict. But I am an addict and I have lots of pain. I'd go nuts waiting for that dispenser to go off, lol. Right now I'm doubling up a lot on my dilaudid cause my tolerance is high and it's not working as well. I've talked to my Dr and she won't go up. So I run out early then get sick. I ran out 2 days ago and still have 5 more to go. I still have MS Contin but that shit sucks but at least I still have a med in me. I'm gonna look into these dispensers but honestly I don't know anywhere around here that uses them and I'm not doing any impatient shit. I've been to rehab twice and it never helped me. Anyway, interesting stuff Mr Root:)
 
Hello ... I am new to this site. I'm 2 weeks into a suboxone wd (6mg a day for 6 months), have done two bags of dope on separate occasions, and have been alternating between lope and kratom to ease withdrawals. Will these extend my withdrawal at all? I live in Brooklyn and it's super easy to cop and I'm starting grad school soon so I want to be sure I stay clean bc I've been homeless and lost a free ride to grad school once from using. Thanks!
 
NutSack -

am I understanding correctly that you quit a 6 mg a day sub habit cold turkey? If so, that's rough.

It it sounds like you are asking if the lope or Kratom will extend your withdrawals? My thought is that the lope is probably pretty safe, provided you aren't taking 100s of milligrams per day. If you are taking recommended amounts, you should be ok. The Kratom, however, will extend your withdrawals a bit - but based on the amount of subs you were taking when you quit, it's sounds like that may be the lesser of two evils (if it's either take Kratom, or relapse on your doc, then I would choose Kratom any day over a relapse).

If the lope and Kratom are currently serving as comfort meds, you just need to know that you will have to quit taking them eventually. It is possible to get addicted to both lope and Kratom - and I'm sure switching addictions isn't really what you had in mind. There are people on this board who are experts in subs, I'm not one of them, so take my advice with a grain of salt.

Good luck!

- VE
 
God damnit I just typed this whole thing out and it got deleted. Anyways I think the leg pain and temperature regulation issues are gone. Kratom is just so weird to me... I've never felt a buzz even from high doses upwards of 20g but it's a god send for sleep during withdrawals. I took 36 mg lope and still don't feel great but most symptoms are gone minus anxiety. The subs were just taking away my sex drive and making me kind of depressed so I decided to quit after a month or two of deliberating. Lope is also the weirdest drug.. From my understanding it works bc so many opiate receptors are in the actual body? Def treading lightly with the lope bc I've heard some horror stories about wd from that. Really hoping I can stay clean this time around... Thanks for the quick response! Phones about to die!
 
Trying to taper from 150 mg oxy/day. Been hovering around 90 mg/day for about 3 weeks now. The wd's suck really bad whenever I try to get down below that. I really want to just go cold turkey and deal with it and be done, but I'm afraid my wife will be really mad having to deal with this for a second time. I have been hoping to taper slowly but it's not going well and I feel like I am only prolonging my suffering.
I don't know what to do and I'm getting really depressed.
Sucks.
 
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