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OPANA ER insuffalation and Silicosis

Hmmm. Is there any chance that the gelling properties of opana ER could be beneficial in this way? The lungs/airways are kept moist and warm. Does anyone think that is enough to clump the particles enough so that they avoid the most sensitive areas (alveoli)? Or would it probably need a higher % moisture content?
 
beautifully done. many thanks to raybeez for his? contributions here.
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Please correct me if I'm wrong here. The Prosolv website, as cited by raybeez, says their average silica particle diameter is 60 micrometers. Is that an alterable measurement, specifically through a simple crushing process? I know the question was raised but I didn't see an answer. There was speculation about what happens if the dust was fine enough, but as far as I can tell it's not known if the particulate size gets changed.

According to the Wiki article cited by the OP:

Silicosis is due to deposition of fine respirable dust (less than 10 micrometers in diameter) containing crystalline silicon dioxide in the form of alpha-quartz, cristobalite, or tridymite.

Assuming the wiki article is correct in that statement, the silica particulate would need to be 10 or less micrometers in diameter to reach the alveoli and serve as a potential cause of silicosis, not to mention being free enough from the "intimate mixture" to ride the wind through the complex branching system.

If the alveoli live only in the sacs where the alveolar ducts terminate, then there is no digestion of the cellulose and no retaining of the silica, unless the "intimate mixture" travels all the way to the end of those airways. Right? Wrong?

I'm honestly not trying to be in the PITA, and I wouldn't snort the stuff nor encourage anyone else to, just interested in this issue. It's kind of fun to try to figure it out when there is such a paucity of info to be found online. That, and I don't know how comfortable I am supporting a pharm company that is okay with abusers of its meds developing serious diseases. I'm considering calling or writing them to see if they can tell me what percentage of the ER pills is SMCC. bad idea?
 
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I have read all the arguments presented and I am in awe that so many moths went by and your team of contributors to this potential problem has found no valuable conclusion.
Just back and forth hypothesizing on the same questions with little to no results.

Why hasn't any one of you contacted the pharmaceutical company in question. I would think that they would have a reasonable explanation.

I would hope that no company in America would voluntarily choose to put ANYONE at risk, even a person who chooses to abuse their product.

If in fact the said company is aware that patients indeed snort their product, how could they knowingly add a compound that would eventually cause death.

This would be a legal nightmare on their part, and with the team of lawyers that are at the mercy of pharmaceutical companies, would it sound logical that this could have been over looked.

Even abusers of a product have due right to seek damages from a compound that is poison, it matters little how that compound is ingested. Safety at every aspect is essential to the lawyers who approve if medicines for fear of repercussions.

ALL THAT SAID, Why hasn't anyone contacted this company, instead it seems as though your all trying to play private detective with out consulting the source..hhmm, makes little sense to me. but what do I know, I too am just a pain patient looking for the best way to alleviate pain.
 
Even abusers of a product have due right to seek damages from a compound that is poison, it matters little how that compound is ingested. Safety at every aspect is essential to the lawyers who approve if medicines for fear of repercussions.
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So you're saying... if I inject pills and they destroy my veins, I can just sue the pharmaceutical company?
 
I used to get the 10mg ER's. I blew a bunch of em. more than 200. I have worked extensively with fiberglass, CF, and glass (places where silicates show up in the air, and although i almost always wear a respirator, there are days i don't, sometimes you cant. life happens.

day w/o a respirator feels like 100x worse than blowing an Opana ER. I now get the 10 IR's so I don't have to worry about it, but if I was still on the ER's i would still blow the fuckers. Life fucking happens man, especially when you work hard and work with your hands, you can get sick easily, but worrying about that shit is pointless. I feel like this is pretty harmless compared to alot of work i've done.

I'm going to get sick and die at some point. whether it's Mesothelioma or something else doesn't really matter.
I think no matter what it is going to take alot of sniffing to put anyone in serious danger, but I encourage everyone to be careful with this drug.
 
OH and the kind of attitude that leads to lawsuits that were results of YOUR OWN CHOICE are fucking bullshit, by abusing a drug you are taking a risk and forfeiting any kind of right you had to seek punitive damages from health effects.

kids, just think about that when you are doing drugs. harm reduction is great, but there's still harm.
 
MobiusDick, that's a nice post, but you might want to look up the differences between silicon, silicone, silica and silicate. They're all very different chemical entities.
 
crush a 40 as fine as possible and rub the powder deep in the nasal cavity until all gone? no silica in the lungs...right? cool huh? have fun everyone, i do!
 
i forget where it said it tasting/smellin like stale ass cheetos but god damnit man opana er is god awfully EXACTLY what a stale f*ckin cheeto taste like...old ass cheese snack flavor though...ah but how nice it is when you blow 80mg all at once and in about 30 you feel your intestines tighten up and you feel the warmth..SHAZAAAM 2 minutes have gone by and you are already noddin like bin ladin...

i lub lub lub this stuffs..except when its sniffles time and you gota clear 4 giant boogies and swallow them..o well all in a days work..
 
This is my first post, but I've been lurking for awhile since the new Oxycontin OP's have come out. I suffer from severe bone and joint pain from head to toe and my previous regimin of Oxy 60mg 2x day plus Norco for breakthrough was doing really well. I had never abused my meds except for occaisionally chewing them when i needed immediate relief. My doc switched me to Opana 30 ER 2x day plus the Norco. The Opana does nothing for me orally. I was so miserable, so I ended up snorting the Open, which was great but I wish I had never done that because I ended up taking them that way everytime. I have been on them for 3 weeks now.

When I read about the silicosis today I was horrified and have been having panic attacks all day. I researched every article I could find and then it occurred to me to look up the MSDS (I didn't see it mentioned here so I apologize if it's already been addressed).

According to the MSDS profile for SMCC regarding inhalation, it is a non-hazardous nuisance dust. So I feel sufficiently relieved that I will not succumb to a tortuous death caused by silicosis. Nevertheless, I am going to switch back to Avinza, eventhough I enjoy the euphoria, I want to be pain free more than anything. The link to the MSDS is below:

http://coretecholding.com/files/produits/fiches_securites/msds-prosolv2.pdf
 
Kikkiji said:
This is my first post, but I've been lurking for awhile since the new Oxycontin OP's have come out. I suffer from severe bone and joint pain from head to toe and my previous regimin of Oxy 60mg 2x day plus Norco for breakthrough was doing really well. I had never abused my meds except for occaisionally chewing them when i needed immediate relief. My doc switched me to Opana 30 ER 2x day plus the Norco. The Opana does nothing for me orally. I was so miserable, so I ended up snorting the Open, which was great but I wish I had never done that because I ended up taking them that way everytime. I have been on them for 3 weeks now.

When I read about the silicosis today I was horrified and have been having panic attacks all day. I researched every article I could find and then it occurred to me to look up the MSDS (I didn't see it mentioned here so I apologize if it's already been addressed).

According to the MSDS profile for SMCC regarding inhalation, it is a non-hazardous nuisance dust. The link to the MSDS is below:

http://coretecholding.com/files/produits/fiches_securites/msds-prosolv2.pdf
Click to expand...

Kikkiji this is very interesting information, thank you.

Just a couple of follow up points that you should be aware of:

1. Doing one pill a day for 3 weeks isn't going to give you silicosis, even with the worst case numbers I posted before... but doing daily it for months to years could.

2. Despite the fact that the MSDS says it's a nonhazardous dust, it still lists the maximum safety exposure at 5 mg/m 3 respirable fraction.

I initially based my safety calculation on a maximum safe exposure of 0.1 mg/m3, and came out with numbers that showed 1 Opana pill puts you just over the maximum safe daily exposure to silica.

Based on the 5mg/m3 number in that MSDS we get 45-50 pills of Opana putting you over the daily safe limit.

3. I looked up the MSDS for regular amorphous silicon dioxide (which does cause silicosis), and the safe levels were 6 mg/m3. In other words, SMCC is still more dangerous than pure amorphous silicon dioxide (but probably not as bad as pure microcrstalline silicone dioxide).

4. The 0.1 mg/m3 safe exposure for microcrystaline silica was developed empirically from people working with the substance in mines over decades. Data with that level of detail for SMCC probably isn't available, so at the end of the day, you need to ask yourself if you trust your health to those numbers. Even if the risk is low, is it worth the chance of getting a lethal lung disease with no known cure?

My advice: Have an honest conversation with your doctor about the Opana not working for your pain, and try a different medication.
 
Thank you for your reply and additional information. I absolutely do not want to risk the health of my lungs and plan to switch back to Avinza (I mentioned this in my previous post). The high just isn't worth it and I believe the potential to further abuse Opana is too great to risk as well. I just want to live in as little pain as possible, I doubt that I will be able to find anything that would provide 100% pain relief 24/7.
 
I was just gonna ask this on a somewhat related note. I had an acquaintance who snorted almost every pharm he would do (which was alot). This included oxycontin mainly, hydrocodone, opana, xanax, kpin, etc. The main ones being oxycontin and any hydro. This is only heresay but, supposedly he has throat cancer now and from what someone told me that the doctor told him is that it was partially from all of the pills that he snorted not to mention tobacco. I know tobacco is probably over 50% of the problem but he specifically mentioned snorting pills as a cause. I've not talked to him personally but seen him a couple of times and i'm pretty sure he is sick. Does anyone think or have reference of this being a possible contributing factor to his illness? Maybe all of the talc in the oxy? Isn't it slightly carcinogenic?

edit: Sorry if i'm derailing this but i thought i would just add it here as it's somewhat related, and you guys are so knowledgeable ;). No sarcasm intended.
 
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Im just going to add my two cents here, as I've been studying my arse off since I read this thread because it kind of scared me.

Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong in anything here.

The wiki page on Silicosis states:

"The best way to prevent silicosis is to identify work-place activities that produce respirable CRYSTALLINE silica dust and then to eliminate or control the dust ("primary prevention")"

Earlier in that same article it lists the types of silica dust:

Crystalline silica
Microcrystalline silica
Amorphous silica

When reading the ingredients in the Opana ER, the substance that's scaring everyone is :

silicified MICROCRYSTALLINE cellulose.

In the prevention area for the silicosis wiki it only lists Crystalline, I dunno if that by default also means microcrystalline but I would think they'd both be listed in the prevention if they were both the culprit.

I'm not a brainiac, those are just some points I wanted to bring up from what I gathered while reading. If anyone out there can set me straight on these points if Im totally ignorant That'd be great.
 
I guess I missed the points earlier on the size of the silicate in micrometers being part of the key, I Guess if CRYSTALLINE can be small enough to cause silicosis, then MICROcrystalline will be as well AlthougH I really don't know, Im just a layman here.

I've still gotta wonder why all the "prevention" data i've read lists specifically "crystalline silica" and not amorphous and microcrystalline, though obviously I've not read all the data that exists, just a few documents.
 
Hi everyone, sorry to bring back an old thread.

Is the nasal spray idea totally out of the question for at least lessening the amount of particles that make it to the lungs? I'm asking for two reasons:

1. Does the gelling simply make this impossible?

2. If it doesn't is this effective at all or not worth my time?

I have already read that these do gel, but is it possible that the oxymorphone dissolves in the water? That way the gel could be filtered out and the water used as a nasal spray.
 
^I'm going to quote this great post by raybeez from earlier in this thread to answer your question. (It was in reply to my initial query about a nasal spray...)

raybeez said:
It would lower the quantity going into the lungs, but not prevent it completely.

Fluid in the lungs gets swept by the nasal cilia to the back of the throat (nasopharynx) that you can feel (post nasal "drip"). About 90% of the fluid is swallowed, but ~10% goes into your airways.

If you google "post-nasal drip and asthma" or "sinusitis and asthma" you'll see that in conditions where people have constant liquid coming out the back of their nose, enough gets into to lungs to cause bronchospasm and asthma symptoms.

The clearance of fluid is done by nasal cilia. Smoking causes paralysis of cilia, so if you're a smoker, you'd get way more than 10% of the fluid into your lungs. Morning smokers cough is caused by cilia paralysis so the amount of stuff you cough up in the morning is a good way to judge your cilia function.
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PS- Thanks to raybeez for all of the information!
 
Wheres the facts? Why would a company that makes OPANA ER knowingly have an ingredient such as this that is know to cause POTTERS ROT a part of their product. Of course they realize this OPANA ER will be abused by people,and that the consequences of an abuser who SNORTS THIS PRODUCT would and could be fatal..why would they then have this microcrystallinecellulose contained in their product?? Seems like a big risk, like a governmental population control conspiracy theory..ya, this is how far fetched your freakin story is..and its people like you who spew venom and opinions with absolutely no basis. NO, what this is, is a case of serious DEFAMATION OF CHARACTER on your part. You blog all these unproven statements your making and you dont have a freakin clue- Why would you do that? Why?

PAINGAME< This is where this story originated from...PainGame's thread is a bunch of unproven garbage...PERIOD!!
Really pegasus...this story and where it originated from is absolutely b.s- why let this bogus story spiral like this!! seriously
 
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I am very knowlegeable of what silica is and what it does after long term exposure. I give safety meetings and yearly refresher training of the dangers of silica. I read on some posts a couple of months ago about snorting Opana ER. I have had extreme back pain for over 5 years now and I decided to try it. I don't get a high from it but it stops the pain quicker. I was reading this thread last night and have been scared straight so to speak. I have been snorting Opana ER for about 3 months, 40mg per day. It never irritated my lungs or nasal cavity. I also have been snorting 20mg of Opana IR per day for the same length. I do know that it takes 20 years or so of breathing silica in before you get silicosis. I am refering to the mfg industry. I have been working in a mfg facility for 24 years. There is silica in the sands and iron oxides we use all day every day. I have smoked for about 28 years which is not helping. I get a respitory infection maybe once every 2 years but never had a smokers cough. I got sick about a week ago and it hit me in a matter of 3 hours and floored me. I went to the doctor and they did a chest x ray. I did not have any weezing but since it came on so fast they wanted to make sure I did not have Phenumonia (forgive the spelling). The doc came in and said I have some scaring on my lungs. He said they looked as if I were ten years older. Of course that could not have been from the short time of snorting Opana ER. It would take longer than that. What I have a hard time believeing is if I snorted the ER at 40mg per day for three months max; (closer to two) how it would give you silicosis. After I read all the threads last night I totally quit. I still do the IR because they say there is not silica in it. On the pharmacy paper about the drug it stresses not to chew or break them because you could OD. It does not say anything about it containing silica. Do I really have to worry about getting silicosis from the very short term use and if I never do it again? My last question is if snorting the IR does not cause silicosis, wont it still cake up on your lungs?
 
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