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N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | someguyontheinternet
OPANA ER insuffalation and Silicosis
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arthunter888
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^^A nasal spray should work, as the silicates will be suspended in water, therefore not being mixed with the air inhaled into the lungs, correct?
fryingsquirrel
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I've never done opana but from all reports I've read you really don't have to worry about it crushing into a talc fine dust that goes deep into the lungs. Getting it fine enough to snort at all seems to be a chore.
Chauncey_GARDENer
Bluelighter
After looking over this thread, it seems that most posters have come to the conclusion that micro-filtration is the best technique for separating the silica, however, after talking the issue over with my organic chemistry professor, it seems that filtration is not so effective, and could leave a MAJOR percentage of the silica in solution.
He has done a lot of organic chem research, and would often use silica as a way of "separating" solids within non-polar solvent. According to my professor, when a solution reaches the approximate polarity of a 10% methanol solution (i'm not sure if he was referring to 10% molar or 10% mass, sorry), the silica gel will begin to dissolve into the solution. This means that a significant portion of the silica would pass right through any micron filter. I realize that the silica is supposed to be "colloidal", but I would trust my professor over the product labeling. Keep in mind we are talking about very non-polar solvents, whereas water is virtually the most polar thing out there. This would be fine if you were taking the liquid orally, however, if you evap the water off and snort the powder, it is highly probable that you are also snorting silica residue.
IMO, the best way to separate oxymorphone from the Opana silica would probably be a simple "salting out" extraction. I am not entirely sure, but the oxymorphone will most likely precipitate out of solution around the same pOH as morphine. Therefore; you could dissolve the pill in methanol solution, base-ify till the solution forms a precipitate, pour off the liquid, re-dissolve the oxymorphone base into solution, adjust pH with HCl or equivalent strong acid, and end up with a fairly pure oxymorphone hydrochloride salt. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Or better yet, save your time and take the ground-up powder orally. But then again, I'm not the one who makes your decisions, so do what you want.
He has done a lot of organic chem research, and would often use silica as a way of "separating" solids within non-polar solvent. According to my professor, when a solution reaches the approximate polarity of a 10% methanol solution (i'm not sure if he was referring to 10% molar or 10% mass, sorry), the silica gel will begin to dissolve into the solution. This means that a significant portion of the silica would pass right through any micron filter. I realize that the silica is supposed to be "colloidal", but I would trust my professor over the product labeling. Keep in mind we are talking about very non-polar solvents, whereas water is virtually the most polar thing out there. This would be fine if you were taking the liquid orally, however, if you evap the water off and snort the powder, it is highly probable that you are also snorting silica residue.
IMO, the best way to separate oxymorphone from the Opana silica would probably be a simple "salting out" extraction. I am not entirely sure, but the oxymorphone will most likely precipitate out of solution around the same pOH as morphine. Therefore; you could dissolve the pill in methanol solution, base-ify till the solution forms a precipitate, pour off the liquid, re-dissolve the oxymorphone base into solution, adjust pH with HCl or equivalent strong acid, and end up with a fairly pure oxymorphone hydrochloride salt. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Or better yet, save your time and take the ground-up powder orally. But then again, I'm not the one who makes your decisions, so do what you want.
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fryingsquirrel
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The oral bioavailability sucks, plugging seems like the safest way around that.
Chauncey_GARDENer
Bluelighter
Yeah I figured as much, what is the oral availability in comparison to morphine? I would speculate that it's even less, and I'm pretty sure morphine is around 40% oral. I have never tried plugging anything but from what I hear it works well. I'm sure this has been covered all over these forums, but, how come oxymorphone has such a high intranasal bio-availability? From what I understand, morphine itself is even less active this way than if it were taken orally.
Also, any feedback on my extraction method would be greatly appreciated. I'm still taking undergrad chem courses, so it would be nice to get some educated advice from someone with a degree.
Also, any feedback on my extraction method would be greatly appreciated. I'm still taking undergrad chem courses, so it would be nice to get some educated advice from someone with a degree.
fryingsquirrel
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I think the bio-availability is down around 10% orally. Why that is I don't know, but that is really the question rather than why nasal is high. Most things have good nasal bio-availability, ,morphine is an exception.
Dunno why, my degree is in welding
Dunno why, my degree is in welding
arthunter888
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Guys, why wouldn't a nasal spray work at avoiding silicate inhalation? I'm not talking about dissolving, and evaping to precipitae. I'm saying snort as a liquid. Think about it, you dissolve the opana powder in water (along with silicates), you spray this into nostrils with a nasal spray mister.
Yes, the silicates are going into your nose, but they are IN SOLUTION when they go into your nose: your lungs won't be inhaling the liquid solution will they? I would think the silicates would be absorbed via the nasal membrane, and this in theory would be just as harmless as swallowing them.
Yes, the silicates are going into your nose, but they are IN SOLUTION when they go into your nose: your lungs won't be inhaling the liquid solution will they? I would think the silicates would be absorbed via the nasal membrane, and this in theory would be just as harmless as swallowing them.
It would lower the quantity going into the lungs, but not prevent it completely.
Fluid in the lungs gets swept by the nasal cilia to the back of the throat (nasopharynx) that you can feel (post nasal "drip"). About 90% of the fluid is swallowed, but ~10% goes into your airways.
If you google "post-nasal drip and asthma" or "sinusitis and asthma" you'll see that in conditions where people have constant liquid coming out the back of their nose, enough gets into to lungs to cause bronchospasm and asthma symptoms.
The clearance of fluid is done by nasal cilia. Smoking causes paralysis of cilia, so if you're a smoker, you'd get way more than 10% of the fluid into your lungs. Morning smokers cough is caused by cilia paralysis so the amount of stuff you cough up in the morning is a good way to judge your cilia function.
Chauncey_GARDENer
Bluelighter
The amount of lung-bound silica might be lessened by using a nasal "spray", but there I have no reason to think that it would totally eliminate your chances of developing silicosis. Vapors can enter your lungs just like anything else can... Have you ever tried inhaling the gas from a humidifier? It makes you cough whether you use your mouth or your nose... I do not believe that all of the liquid from the spray would be captured by your nose... But I also don't know whether colloidal/dissolved silica has a lesser impact on lung tissue.
To answer your question bluntly, IMO the nasal spray would not decrease levels of silica to any "safe" level. Nice try though! I'm sure someone will figure this out. But like I said previously, even my O CHEM professor didn't know of a way to remove silica from solution.
I would say the best bet would be to base-out the good stuff using NaOH or another strong base. I know everyone here has access to lab grade chemicals, right?
Perhaps the SiO2 could be made to precipitate with the use of some reagent... I will look into this. My professor also said he would ask around and get back to me on Friday.
To answer your question bluntly, IMO the nasal spray would not decrease levels of silica to any "safe" level. Nice try though! I'm sure someone will figure this out. But like I said previously, even my O CHEM professor didn't know of a way to remove silica from solution.
I would say the best bet would be to base-out the good stuff using NaOH or another strong base. I know everyone here has access to lab grade chemicals, right?
Perhaps the SiO2 could be made to precipitate with the use of some reagent... I will look into this. My professor also said he would ask around and get back to me on Friday.
arthunter888
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^^Yeah, you could try and extract the oxymorphone, but then this yields additional problems such as the TIME-RX gelling and don't forgot, the toxicity of any residual chemicals you ingested with the extract. If you find out a good method of extracting OM that can be done by a non-chemistry student with high purity chemicals that can be purchased online or locally, please let me know.
Anyway, this thread is making me sick to my stomach. Over the past 2 years I have insufflated around 30 Opana ER pills--and worse yet--after I grinded them very finely by rubbing against a hose clamp. I had no idea about the presence or danger of silicates in these pills. And to think I am now at risk for potentially fatal lung problems in the next 10-15 years. I am also a daily cannabis smoker, which could only contribute to the problem I guess. I can only hope that there is now a way to reduce my chances.
I think it is horrendous that these pharm companies are allowed to put these dangerous silicates in pills. For what motive? To decrease the instances of abuse? BULLSHIT! I know that they are harmless when taken "as directed", but what about people who snort them --not taking as directed makes them not worthy a disease-free life? People will continue to abuse pills with dangerous ingredients in them, either because they don't know, or don't care. This will not decrease abuse, the only thing is does is create health problems for the abusers. People abusing pills does not justify them being poisoned by government and pharm companies.
But this is not at all surprising. In the USA, we don't take measures to prevent our problems from happening (the logical thing to do), all we do is attack and discredit those involved/affected by the problems, thinking this is the solution.
End rant.
Anyway, this thread is making me sick to my stomach. Over the past 2 years I have insufflated around 30 Opana ER pills--and worse yet--after I grinded them very finely by rubbing against a hose clamp. I had no idea about the presence or danger of silicates in these pills. And to think I am now at risk for potentially fatal lung problems in the next 10-15 years. I am also a daily cannabis smoker, which could only contribute to the problem I guess. I can only hope that there is now a way to reduce my chances.
I think it is horrendous that these pharm companies are allowed to put these dangerous silicates in pills. For what motive? To decrease the instances of abuse? BULLSHIT! I know that they are harmless when taken "as directed", but what about people who snort them --not taking as directed makes them not worthy a disease-free life? People will continue to abuse pills with dangerous ingredients in them, either because they don't know, or don't care. This will not decrease abuse, the only thing is does is create health problems for the abusers. People abusing pills does not justify them being poisoned by government and pharm companies.
But this is not at all surprising. In the USA, we don't take measures to prevent our problems from happening (the logical thing to do), all we do is attack and discredit those involved/affected by the problems, thinking this is the solution.
End rant.
You'll probably be okay. People who are doing 30 pills a month intranasal on the other hand...
If you look at my math earlier in the thread you'll see that one pill probably contains about 1-4 times the daily maximum exposure levels of silica. These are established for people who are exposed to these levels 5 days a week, for 5-10 years
But your milage may vary so please make sure to limit your future exposure and see your family doctor once a year for a proper physical exam and medical opinion.
arthunter888
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^^I snort about a third of an Opana 40 every seven days. I have a calculated method that works for my tolerance.
Once a week, I measure out 30mg of Opana powder (total pill is 240mg) with my milligram scale. Divide this into 4 piles. Snort one in each nostril, then the rest 5 minutes later.
Then when I start to come down (6-7 hours later) I dose again the same way. And sometimes I'll do little booster bumps as needed, so in total I snort roughly 80mg of Opana powder (1/3 pill) in a day, once a week.
Once a week, I measure out 30mg of Opana powder (total pill is 240mg) with my milligram scale. Divide this into 4 piles. Snort one in each nostril, then the rest 5 minutes later.
Then when I start to come down (6-7 hours later) I dose again the same way. And sometimes I'll do little booster bumps as needed, so in total I snort roughly 80mg of Opana powder (1/3 pill) in a day, once a week.
delusion02x
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if SWIM used 10-15 Opana ER (insufflated) each month for ten months where does SWIM stand and should he consult a doctor?
SWIM will not be using Opana ER anymore and has not in about a month. SWIM feels none of the symptoms related to silicosis.
SWIM will not be using Opana ER anymore and has not in about a month. SWIM feels none of the symptoms related to silicosis.
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There really needs to be a blanket warning put on this site.
This is really bad, I have tried to get the topic started on some boards in the scene around the net and a nurse responded to one of the threads and indicated in some individuals with a propensity for asthma they can develop even an acute reaction. She (it seemed like a she) said she had asked her teacher in R.N. school about it and got 100% confirmation that all it would take is snorting one or two prescription bottles to put yourself at an extremely high risk for Silicosis AND Mesothelioma!
I do not think you can put it in water and try to put the water in your nostril, everyone knows the OPANA ER will not give up its active ingredient just in water, and if you crush it up and put water on it - you are going to get it to gel into a blob.
I guess if you wanted to crush it up and then wet it so it forms a solid blob, and then somehow try to snort the blob that might reduce the risk, I am just not sure how you would snort the gelatin globule.
I hope we can get a warning up in the form of a sticky in basic drug discussion so the kiddies can see this and don't throw their lives and lungs away in an early death in their 30s just because they enjoyed partying when they were 20.
I am VERY LUCKY - I get the 40mg prescribed to me, and I tried snorting one pill, which works so good and hits so hard it breaks my heart, but after reading about the danger and feeling the congestion after one pill I will never never do it again.
If you are dead you cannot live or get high or anything - life is so short - I have seen so many people go because they were careless, and this is the worst as it probably won't hit for 10 years.
However trust us - IT WILL GET YOU.
Those ads for ASBESTOS and MESOTHELIOMA are not on TV for nothing, ASBESTOS is a SILICATE powder almost IDENTICAL in chemical structure to what is in OPANA ER - if you snort it you will end up losing your ability to process oxygen, and you will sit in the hospital and realize your life is gone...
There has to be some way to spread the word of this more....
People are doing this every day like there is no problem, and with the new OXYCONTIN not crushing I bet A LOT of people are snorting OPANA ER.
This is SOOO bad. Of course it will be taken out of pills in 10 years after the media frenzy breaks but that is a long way off.....
This is really bad, I have tried to get the topic started on some boards in the scene around the net and a nurse responded to one of the threads and indicated in some individuals with a propensity for asthma they can develop even an acute reaction. She (it seemed like a she) said she had asked her teacher in R.N. school about it and got 100% confirmation that all it would take is snorting one or two prescription bottles to put yourself at an extremely high risk for Silicosis AND Mesothelioma!
I do not think you can put it in water and try to put the water in your nostril, everyone knows the OPANA ER will not give up its active ingredient just in water, and if you crush it up and put water on it - you are going to get it to gel into a blob.
I guess if you wanted to crush it up and then wet it so it forms a solid blob, and then somehow try to snort the blob that might reduce the risk, I am just not sure how you would snort the gelatin globule.
I hope we can get a warning up in the form of a sticky in basic drug discussion so the kiddies can see this and don't throw their lives and lungs away in an early death in their 30s just because they enjoyed partying when they were 20.
I am VERY LUCKY - I get the 40mg prescribed to me, and I tried snorting one pill, which works so good and hits so hard it breaks my heart, but after reading about the danger and feeling the congestion after one pill I will never never do it again.
If you are dead you cannot live or get high or anything - life is so short - I have seen so many people go because they were careless, and this is the worst as it probably won't hit for 10 years.
However trust us - IT WILL GET YOU.
Those ads for ASBESTOS and MESOTHELIOMA are not on TV for nothing, ASBESTOS is a SILICATE powder almost IDENTICAL in chemical structure to what is in OPANA ER - if you snort it you will end up losing your ability to process oxygen, and you will sit in the hospital and realize your life is gone...
There has to be some way to spread the word of this more....
People are doing this every day like there is no problem, and with the new OXYCONTIN not crushing I bet A LOT of people are snorting OPANA ER.
This is SOOO bad. Of course it will be taken out of pills in 10 years after the media frenzy breaks but that is a long way off.....
This is very good advice.
Also I just found out I am allergic to something in the new OP Oxycontin. Which is a fucking disaster. Roxicodone ONLY it seems for me as none of the local pharmacies carry the "magical generic ethex" that are supposed to be identical.
Why do all these addicts have to ruin everything for legitimate chronic pain patients??
I am typing this and wondering if I have to go to the hospital.
This is very good advice.
Also I just found out I am allergic to something in the new OP Oxycontin. Which is a fucking disaster. Roxicodone ONLY it seems for me as none of the local pharmacies carry the "magical generic ethex" that are supposed to be identical.
Why do all these addicts have to ruin everything for legitimate chronic pain patients??
I am typing this and wondering if I have to go to the hospital.
You need to go to the hospital if you have:
- difficulty breathing
- swelling in the face, eyes, mouth, or tounge
30roxi30
Bluelighter
awww im fucked i go on opana binges and sniff up to 9 opana 20mg ERs a day for about a week out of the month for the past 5 months ... i have asthma and possible COPD .. i also think i have a post nasal drip because since i was 17 ive always coughed shit up everyday from my lungs ive always thought ive had a post nasal drip and with the opana when im doing so many of them when i cough up mucus i can taste the opana in it ...looks like im fucked
dancingtree
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FWIW I asked my brother about this, he being a chemistry major and now being in medical school.
He says there would need to be a change in the chemical structure for free silica to be released, and he didn't think crushing the pill is gonna do that. He said that would be like saying sucralose causes chlorine exposure.
I have no way of knowing whether he's right, so I'm not endorsing or condoning Opana ER insufflation. But he did major in chemistry and was a tutor in the subject and is now working alongside patients in a teaching hospital.
He says there would need to be a change in the chemical structure for free silica to be released, and he didn't think crushing the pill is gonna do that. He said that would be like saying sucralose causes chlorine exposure.
I have no way of knowing whether he's right, so I'm not endorsing or condoning Opana ER insufflation. But he did major in chemistry and was a tutor in the subject and is now working alongside patients in a teaching hospital.
arthunter888
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What is meant by "free silica"? I would think silica of any form going into your lungs is bad.