Kratom Only bad effects from Kratom and extracts? How to fix...

[Mycophile]

(Note: I am not taking any 7-OH extracts and never have, or at least the OPMS shots don't list it as an ingredient, so IF it's in there, it's not much.) I'm getting SUPER pissed off and frustrated and wanted some people's opinions on what exactly is going on and if they think there's ANY possible fix other than just more time off from Kratom.

So, I HAD been getting great effects from OPMS shots so long as I didn't take them more than 2 days in a row and then took SEVERAL days off, like AT LEAST 4. Plain leaf would also work, but a lot less so by itself and more to potentiate the extracts.

Then I started taking a statin drug, Rosuvastatin, for my cholesterol. Now I'm PRETTY SURE that while on it OPMS shots would sometimes work if I wasn't overdoing it, and I know for sure I had a couple decent experiences on just plain leaf before my tolerance got too high.

So then I knew that the extracts weren't working well and I needed a break. I didn't take any kratom of any kind for 4 days and was in WD. After the 4 days were over I had one day where I took about 4.0 grams of plain leaf and a SMALL amount of 2 other extracts I'd bought online that aren't as strong as OPMS, and then felt halfway decent that day.

After that NOTHING. Like just that one day I felt OK on some plain leaf (day before yesterday) but yesterday the plain leaf didn't do anything.

Then TODAY I tried 3.5 grams plain leaf and it started off for a few minutes feeling OK like a bit of a buzz. But then I took another half a gram and started feeling like shit like I had taken TOO much (I realized even the initial dose was too high and I shouldn't have taken more) and thought "maybe my tolerance isn't as high as I thought and maybe I overdosed (cause that IS how it felt). So I took another half a gram and just felt pretty bad, like as if I overdosed. I then fucked up and gave in and took an OPMS shot but it didn't work and only made me feel worse. But what I find is weird is that I know what a Kratom overdose feels like vs not taking enough, and I have been feeling like I'm overdosing but getting no good effects.

What the fuck do you think is going on?!!! Like, I know that tolerance skyrockets and that I never should have taken the OPMS at all, but I'd like your opinion on the following: 1) Why would I, today, take plain leaf ONLY and get the feeling like it was TOO MUCH, just feeling the shitty side effects from Kratom in the way you'd feel them if you overdosed and then 2) Why would an OPMS shot not only NOT work but make me feel WORSE?!!!

Normally, in the past, if my tolerance was too high then whatever I took, plain leaf and/or extract, it would just not work well or at all, but I wouldn't USUALLY get this sedated feeling as if I'd overdosed on Kratom (which I've done plenty of times.)

I just don't get it. The most that happens is if I only take like 2-3 grams of plain leaf I feel "ok" but not high. If I exceed that, either in plain leaf or extract, I just feel like shit.

Is there a fucking fix for this?!! I'm on vacation and the main way i want to enjoy myself is Kratom. Other than that, I've got booze and weed, but this just sucks. Why would this shit be working fine most of the time and then only when I go on vacation it won't work??!!!

Have you ever experienced where you can't get high off any kratom products and taking them just makes you feel bad, almost like you overdosed, like you are tired and shit??

Kratom is just fucking weird. Like, if this were a normal opioid like Oxycodone/Hydrocodone you are either taking enough to get high or your tolerance is too high so you need more but EVENTUALLY you'd get high. But with Kratom products? Shit is SUPER unpredictable.

All I can do to cheer up is drink and smoke weed and remind myself that SOMEDAY Kratom will work again, even if I'm unlucky and it doesn't for the rest of my vacation (fingers crossed that that DOESN'T happen.)

I've learned my lesson now: ONLY ever take extracts of ANY kind if I am then stopping for AT LEAST one month so that any raised tolerance won't matter (I'd still get worse WD, but that's a different story.) If I am going to be taking ANY Kratom of any kind and expecting ANY kind of effects, ZERO extracts.

And do you think any of this could be my statin drug? Cause I'm new to it and it might affect metabolism of this drug, but I THINK I have still gotten high on kratom since taking it. I THINK what's up just has to do with too many extracts.

I know that breaks are what helps most, but I'm on vacation now and so I'm at the very least gonna take that little bit of plain leaf that staves off WD.

Please let me know your thoughts guys. Thanks...

 

[Psynaught]

I think it is about expectations. I have been taking 4.5 grams of Kratom 5 days a week for a few years now. I don't expect to get high, just a mood boost and some pain relief. If you curb your expectations you will be OK. A couple times a months I will take some ex or adderal and get high and maybe take Oxy of 7oH a couple time a month and get high.

 

[Mycophile]

I mean, I really think this has to do with the other alkaloids in Kratom. I don't think this kind of thing happens to people who use Oxycodone or Hydrocodone. That said, I'm not getting into either, and I'm also not getting into 7-OH. I don't need to be more addicted than I already am.

 

[Mycophile]

I think it is about expectations. I have been taking 4.5 grams of Kratom 5 days a week for a few years now. I don't expect to get high, just a mood boost and some pain relief. If you curb your expectations you will be OK. A couple times a months I will take some ex or adderal and get high and maybe take Oxy of 7oH a couple time a month and get high.

I hear you, but you seem like you take it differently than me. You are taking for maintenance and I take it to get high. I take LONG periods off, whereas it seems like you don't. I don't take for pain (not that I don't have pain, I do, but I'm managing). And I'm on vacation for only the next 2-3 weeks so I REALLY want to have fun.

Also, how have you managed to take 7-OH and not go overboard and get super bad WDS?

But really, I get what you are saying, but expectations or not are not a reason why you would feel bad from what you think is a low dose of Kratom, then feel worse when you take an extract. I can't figure out a good dosage. It's just weird. I always think I understand this drug and that I know what it feels like to take too much vs not enough, but once I started taking extracts it became much harder. I've tried many different potentiators, but none are fixing the situation. And I bet if I gave in and took 7-OH I'd get high, but then that would be a TERRIBLE idea with everything I'm hearing. Everyone is telling me not to get into 7-OH. I never even should have gotten into regular extracts like OPMS.

 

[Psynaught]

I hear you, but you seem like you take it differently than me. You are taking for maintenance and I take it to get high. I take LONG periods off, whereas it seems like you don't. I don't take for pain (not that I don't have pain, I do, but I'm managing). And I'm on vacation for only the next 2-3 weeks so I REALLY want to have fun.

Also, how have you managed to take 7-OH and not go overboard and get super bad WDS?

But really, I get what you are saying, but expectations or not are not a reason why you would feel bad from what you think is a low dose of Kratom, then feel worse when you take an extract. I can't figure out a good dosage. It's just weird. I always think I understand this drug and that I know what it feels like to take too much vs not enough, but once I started taking extracts it became much harder. I've tried many different potentiators, but none are fixing the situation. And I bet if I gave in and took 7-OH I'd get high, but then that would be a TERRIBLE idea with everything I'm hearing. Everyone is telling me not to get into 7-OH. I never even should have gotten into regular extracts like OPMS.

7oH? I treat it the same as I treat Oxy, as something very addictive and rarely take it. I have fent, Tramadol, and Oxy. As a general rule I will only take a real Oxy (or 7oH) once a week.

I got my first batch of 7oH in I think last week. I tried it first the first time on Sunday. The plan was not to take it again until tonight, but I had some real bad back pain a couple of days ago, I think it was Tuesday and took a whole 30 (tested at 27) mg tab over the evening and was pain free.

That means no more real opioids for a few more days. My back is OK tonight and I won't be taking any tomorrow either.

I have been lucky as not not have gotten addicted, except for the small amount of Kratom I take.

 

[Mycophile]

7oH? I treat it the same as I treat Oxy, as something very addictive and rarely take it. I have fent, Tramadol, and Oxy. As a general rule I will only take a real Oxy (or 7oH) once a week.

I got my first batch of 7oH in I think last week. I tried it first the first time on Sunday. The plan was not to take it again until tonight, but I had some real bad back pain a couple of days ago, I think it was Tuesday and took a whole 30 (tested at 27) mg tab over the evening and was pain free.

That means no more real opioids for a few more days. My back is OK tonight and I won't be taking any tomorrow either.

I have been lucky as not not have gotten addicted, except for the small amount of Kratom I take.

I'm amazed you aren't already physically dependent, especially considering you take 7-OH even a little bit and I don't.

It's always a wake up call to see how people with actual pain conditions seem to often get better effects cause they NEED it. Sorry again for what you are going through. I do have chronic neck pain and some knee pain, but I have so far managed it with LOTS of physical therapy. These are injuries from Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu so I take PT and lifting weights for therapy very seriously.

How different is 7-OH from Oxycodone? I've heard it only lasts like 2 hours while Oxy always lasted me like 4.

You seem so "well behaved" haha, that I may not be able to learn that much from you. I'm unfortunately just another addict. My mental health issues/neurodiversity/depression/anxiety give me reasons to indulge, but that's not the same from real pain, especially considering my issues are never cured and often worsened long term by the addiction.

I'm an on again/off again user. I use however much I can for as long as I can, then I stop for as long as I can, rinse, repeat.

I just can't understand how I can feel like I'm overdosing cause such a small amount of plain leaf is making me all sedated and shit, then I take an extract and feel worse. Like, yeah, that should make sense if you were already taking too much, but if so, I should have gotten better effects from the low dose of powder. I'm rambling now cause I'm half drunk on some whiskey. Kratom is just too weird. Since it's not a regular opioid/opiate it's hard to figure out. I'd assume that 7-OH is easier IN A SENSE to regulate as it's more like Oxy, but everyone says NEVER to take it, and I'm not going to as long as I have any ability to resist...

Question: Have you always been someone able to well control your dosage of opioids due to your health condition, or have you ever really been a euphoria-seeking addict like so many of us?

 

[Psynaught]

I am a BJJ purple, BB in Japanese Jui Jitsu. I started wrestling in high school and trained 17 years total in MMA. Boxed in the D'Matto (Mike Tyson) camp. Also trained quite a bit in M Thai and kickboxing. Had a couple burner fights. I have trained with many, many pros (got a Blue belt from Renzo Gracie 28 years ago). Had total facial reconstruction and a good amount of other surgeries. I always took pain meds as prescribed so never had a problem. I actually never got high until I took 60 mgs of Oxy caps made by a shady pharmacy. It was powder in a capsule so it all hit you at once....and WOW! Incredible high, I realized why everyone gets so addicted to them. I stockpile drugs because I have pretty much been tortured by docs on a few occasions and not given pains meds....so I don't trust them. I have had Tramadol for several years...went through 2 bottles in 2 years. Then I got 2 more that I still have before Mexico was shut down. I have about 35 Oxy's stashed for a Rainey day and some Mexican blues (fake Oxy that test as fentanyl). Fent is a shitty high, but great for pain.

However I am well past 60 and don't train MMA anymore. Just a frail old man I still lift, been bodybuilding for 50 years (competed 17 times). I have plantar fasciitis, but the kratom works for that. The other day I had the most painful knot in my back. However I did not want to miss any training. A month ago I was in a bike accident (could only train upper body) then I got Covid...then long Covid, although I only had it for 2.5 weeks.

But super concerned about not getting back in the gym. My son (a wrestler) just went off to college, my wife is younger and busy with her career, so I am just a sad and lonely old man....the gym is the only thing I have going for me, LOL.

The way it works is, you take some time off...then the next thing you know you are no longer training

I like to frequent this forum because it keeps me scared shitless of opioids. I drank alcoholically until age 27 (have not had a drink since) and abused coke/meth until age 35, so I know I am prone to addiction. The thing about now is, I am used to not being high most nights. Its almost 11:30 and I am running my dog and watching Bosch then going to sleep late, as usual. Tomorrow I am going to get a little high on adderal, which I should not be doing at my age with an enlarged heart, but f it, ya gotta live, LOL. Last Saturday I took 3/4 of a hit of ecstasy.

So the way I do things now is I only get high once a week and learn to live that way. Risky, I know, but like I said, I listen to the guys on this forum.

Oh, and yes. If you are prone to opiod addiction, stay the hell away from 7oH!

Back to your question, yes I have controlled my opioids....but I could still get easily addicted, very easily!

 

[Mycophile]

I am a BJJ purple, BB in Japanese Jui Jitsu. I started wrestling in high school and trained 17 years total in MMA. Boxed in the D'Matto (Mike Tyson) camp. Also trained quite a bit in M Thai and kickboxing. Had a couple burner fights. I have trained with many, many pros (got a Blue belt from Renzo Gracie 28 years ago). Had total facial reconstruction and a good amount of other surgeries. I always took pain meds as prescribed so never had a problem. I actually never got high until I took 60 mgs of Oxy caps made by a shady pharmacy. It was powder in a capsule so it all hit you at once....and WOW! Incredible high, I realized why everyone gets so addicted to them. I stockpile drugs because I have pretty much been tortured by docs on a few occasions and not given pains meds....so I don't trust them. I have had Tramadol for several years...went through 2 bottles in 2 years. Then I got 2 more that I still have before Mexico was shut down. I have about 35 Oxy's stashed for a Rainey day and some Mexican blues (fake Oxy that test as fentanyl). Fent is a shitty high, but great for pain.

However I am well past 60 and don't train MMA anymore. Just a frail old man I still lift, been bodybuilding for 50 years (competed 17 times). I have plantar fasciitis, but the kratom works for that. The other day I had the most painful knot in my back. However I did not want to miss any training. A month ago I was in a bike accident (could only train upper body) then I got Covid...then long Covid, although I only had it for 2.5 weeks.

But super concerned about not getting back in the gym. My son (a wrestler) just went off to college, my wife is younger and busy with her career, so I am just a sad and lonely old man....the gym is the only thing I have going for me, LOL.

The way it works is, you take some time off...then the next thing you know you are no longer training

I like to frequent this forum because it keeps me scared shitless of opioids. I drank alcoholically until age 27 (have not had a drink since) and abused coke/meth until age 35, so I know I am prone to addiction. The thing about now is, I am used to not being high most nights. Its almost 11:30 and I am running my dog and watching Bosch then going to sleep late, as usual. Tomorrow I am going to get a little high on adderal, which I should not be doing at my age with an enlarged heart, but f it, ya gotta live, LOL. Last Saturday I took 3/4 of a hit of ecstasy.

So the way I do things now is I only get high once a week and learn to live that way. Risky, I know, but like I said, I listen to the guys on this forum.

Oh, and yes. If you are prone to opiod addiction, stay the hell away from 7oH!

Back to your question, yes I have controlled my opioids....but I could still get easily addicted, very easily!

Bro. CONGRATS on being so accomplished in mostly the same arts the I practice!! I'm very impressed and I'm gonna follow you from now on cause I think we could connect in the future over that. NOT many people on here are likely to be life long martial artists like us. It doesn't usually go with drug addiction, but in our cases it can.

I just got my black belt in BJJ from Brian McLaughlin (Rob Kahn's first black belt, and Rob is Royce Gracie's first black belt) back in May and had NO CLUE it was coming! I also have a 2nd degree brown belt in Kenpo, Karate (that's not worth much lol.) I started Karate at age 8. I switched to BJJ at 15 when I just took a handful of lessons from Craig Kukuk in NYC, but if you know that he's the first American black belt that's a big deal. I saw UFC one LIVE on PPV when I was only 13 and I knew what NHB/MMA was LONG before it was popular. I took seminars with Royce in the 90s. I got my blue belt from Caique (Rickson black belt) 1st 2 stripes on my blue from Royce, then 3rd from Caique and skipped my 4th. I got my Purple belt from Phil Migliarese (Relson black belt), 3 stripes on my purple from Rob Kahn (1st Royce black belt), then skipped the 4th. I got my brown from my instructor Brian McLaughlin, then skipped all stripes on brown and again got my black belt from Brian.

Overall, I competed in over 100 tournament matches and had a winning record overall and a winning record in no-gi (much more my style than gi) and a SLIGHTLY losing record in gi. I've gone against some tough guys. However, I tore my ACLS THREE times, also a ligament in my right wrist, and developed cervical disk disease in my neck, but my doctor is himself a BJJ black belt and is optimistic that I can stick with it and be ok IF I'm smart about it. So is my PT.

I've DABBLED in wrestling, boxing, Muay Thai and wrestling. My teacher fought on TUF 8 and would have gotten into the house if not for a concussion. He's my best friend. I've ALWAYS wanted to fight MMA, and it's still something I can't 100% give up on. I know that my friends and idols have done it, so it's SUPER hard just saying I can't or won't cause of injuries. I think that even at 45 IF I train properly and get an opponent of similar age I could have a fair shot, and that means EVERYTHING to me.

I've gone against tough guys and even won an absolute division where the last guy was a 250+lbs wrestler who I triangled.

I love BJJ and martial arts MORE THAN DRUGS!! When I do well on the mat it's better than any high I've gotten from drugs! But it's hard cause obviously the older you get the harder it is to keep up with these young kids. I would AT LEAST like to have an amateur boxing fight. My teacher says that is a requirement for fighting Ammy MMA, which is still a goal of mine that I'm afraid may never happen. But I SHOULD be able to glove up and slug it out with someone else between 40-55.

I'd LOVE to keep talking to you bro. We have much in common. Congrats on being 60 and still training at all. We only have one 60 year old black belt. I wouldn't have gotten mine had I not come back after YEARS of being out for personal reasons.

 

[Psynaught]

WOW!!! Awesome. My Bestie is a Relson BB. I tease him that in a real fight he could not get me to the ground, and I would knock him out...LOL. The truth is I am old as dirt and probably can't fight anymore, Ha. I still am a gym rat. Back in the late 90's I competed in NAGA, went 8 and 1. I was ranked 5th in the country for over 36 (masters) heavyweights. I like to say I lost my last match because I broke my leg in the prior....but the guy was a Judo BB and threw me. He quickly got back to his feet and won the match. I could not shoot off my broken leg. That was back around the time I got a blue from Renzo. I think Kukuk and Renzo had split up by then. You ever roll w/ a kid named Jay White? My old training partner. He got is blue in 5 months, won the Pan Ams, then won the purple Pan Ams at only 1 year total of training. I've trained with dozens and dozens of pros. The last time I sparred (stand up, kickboxing only) it was with a kid who was 4 and 1 as a pro. I had 35 lbs on him, though, so not much of a flex. But pretty good for a 54 year old. I did have a couple of burner boxing matches. I also took 2 challenge fights for my old school. Boxing came super, super easy for me. My first coach was Peter Allindato, Mike Tysons' stable mate. He was the hardest hitter for 140 lbs I never sparred with, and we did lots back then (we have learned not to spar so much now). I also trained with Mike Altaman, world San Shou champ who lost to Cung Le. Trained with M Thai kru Pong.

I helped prep him for his first few MMA fights which he won. Then he moved out to Vegas and trained with Randy Couture....he slept with Kim! Randys' wife and his career went downhill from there. I am old and have not trained in 6 years....although I competed in the Mr Texas and Mr South West USA pursuing my pro card (didn't get it). Bodybuilding is more dangerous than MMA. I have the enlarged heart and prostate to show for it, LOL. Bodybuilding is my main sport...competed 17 times been training for 50 years. I can't post any pictures for obvious reasons.

I still am involved with the sport of wrestling, I helped establish a local club and did some teaching. My son was captain of his high school team and all state. He just headed off for college and wrestling was a big part of what got him his scholarship.


But hey yeah, love to talk to you more.