Once you've had enough..then you can quit!

[EctoEndoMezo]

First post..apologies if this has not been done correctly.

I've been on suboxone for 10 plus years. I'm done. I don't want the burden. I no longer need the therapy. Also, and this is..part..of the question I'm building toward..I no longer have any real issue with 'drugs'. Someone lays a pile of dope on the table in front of me, my decisions are going to be 100% related to 'logistics'...not..'need'. I've had enough. But quitting suboxone..even at 1 mil/day has proven to be astoundingly difficult. Painful.
I'm wondering:

If 're-addiction' is NOT an issue..for real..no bs..then can one use some less aggressive (receptor wise) opiate, with a frankly more 'normal' recovery/withdrawal curve to quit suboxone?

I ask this because I've witnessed this approach when an old comrade essentially 'accidentally' got off suboxone with unheard of ease by going on a little opiate bender for about 5 days. Then 'noticed' he was also off suboxone. I was there. It was real. I realize many will call 'bullshit' but some of us are in a statistically anomalous 'wedge' of the old psyche-social pie chart that do not require 'fear of narcotics or nearness of drugs etc...for life' or the typical NA/AA approach..our 'addiction' was about something else and when it ends..its over..or once you've had enough..then you can quit is how I've come to verbalize this. A lucky break? Handling my Animal is no longer an issue.

So has anyone else had success with this? If so what did you take and for how long? Preferably less than the 'curve' that would cause withdrawal from the substitute..but even so suboxone withdrawal is worse than anything I've experienced. Maybe I'm not being very clear..but any help is appreciated..I live in fear of the inevitable and now greatly desired termination of suboxone in my life. I just want off..so of course, if a loophole exists...I'll take it. Thanks. And as always..Keep A Manageable Jones.

 

[herbavore]

I agree that not everyone fits the "one hit/one drink/one snort and it's all over" model but you would still be playing with fire. Sticking with that analogy though, playing with fire doesn't always lead to burns. There are quite a few people here that have come off subs though so I will leave it to the experts (those with experience) to give you their opinions. Out of curiosity, what scares you the most about tapering off? The psychological or the physical?

 

[Agirl77]

Hey you, yeah....YOU. I know what you're going through. And I will tell you how it ends. I am a 25 year old girl and I spent the last 7 years on and off of any type of narcotics. I'm free...let me tell you how this feels. First, let me warn you.
Getting on drugs will give you the single most difficult, painful, soul-crushing experience in your life....soon or later. You've never experienced completely LOSING yourself and all form of life and hope like you will if you take for just one more day. Because one more day is just a precursor to an endless number of one more days. I know you don't believe me....I know you think you have control....I know you've heard that before....but you don't....and you won't. Because if you take for one more day thinking you can stop tomorrow....tomorrow never comes. Because why would you wake up and choose to stop taking when you could just choose to do it "one more time"....to feel good today instead of bad. You won't. Don't tell me you will.
You might find yourself 7 years later and talking to your sister about how she gets the same high, happy, "all is good in the world" feeling without any drugs, as I do with them....and not be able to for one micro-second wrap your head around that idea or remember what that was like, or if you have even experienced that before. Because in the blink of an eye....you lose control....and you forget. And you look back and all you can remember is being unhappy without drugs...we can't seem to remember any joy we actually did feel...that's because the drug will refrain to give you any reason to let go of it.
So here I was....7 years later....after endless nights of crying and asking God to help me stop...but waking up the next day to choose to take something because why wouldn't you choose happiness if it came in an easy to take form? You would. And then it wears off and at night you find yourself crying and feeling the weighted blanket of shame covering your eyes all over again. But you live to quit another day. Tomorrow? Keep telling yourself that.

After talking with my sister about her joy and me not being able to fathom feeling it without drugs....I came to the end....I decided that I will never stop if I don't just do it NOW and choose to never look back. Am I ready? No. We will never be ready.
I needed to remember how that felt....it really was possible to feel joy and happiness like I do now without habitually taking something right before? I don't get it and it made my brain hurt and my heart ache that I couldn't grasp this. I really am not normal anymore.

So I stopped. Cold turkey.
I just decided that I am going to suffer....because if I don't feel the pain I need to feel from 7 years of drug use than I will never be terrified enough of returning. So I did...I didn't occupy my mind with other things to get it off of the withdrawals, no....I took it all in. Every restless leg jerk at 4am, every anxiety-ridden thought, every tear. And I just prepared myself for the worst....and somehow....that made it easier....
But cut to 6 days later. In the past withdrawals took about 3 days and on the third day it was either the worst and gone the next day or already gone completely. I think it's because in my mind I always had that blanket of drugs to run back to because I never fully committed myself to stopping for good.
But not this time....it's day 6 and for the past few days I gradually began feeling nothing.....just....nothing. And by nothing you're probably thinking...that doesn't sound all that bad. We hear in songs all of the time about feeling nothing and it somehow sounds attractive almost. But no...it's not. It's not at all what you imagine it to be like.
Imagine opening up your eyes in the morning to a feeling of complete apathy towards life. You have absolutely no desire and no motivation to get up. You look out of your window and all you can see is death...decay...surrounding and in everything. You feel no life. Nothing. Nothing except this hollow, empty, hungry feeling in your chest and gut that is driving you to the point of insanity.
Insanity? No....that's not actually all that attractive either.
I had NO idea who I was anymore...I didn't just feel nothing....I WAS nothing. There was not an ounce of life or juice or anything inside of me worth going on and worth fighting for. Why did I fight? I had no other choice. I decided drugs were not an option. And honestly....at this point....the only desire stronger than the idea of taking something to make this all go away....was the desire to just die.
And stop fighting.
But I just decided that wasn't an option either.
So on day 6....I lost all hope. I thought that I lost all hope on day 4.....but day 6 was a reminder that I did have a shred of hope still hiding in me somewhere on day 4. Now I have found out what it's like to ACTUALLY lose all hope.
Withdrawals are lasting too long this time and not even a shred of happiness has entered my lifeless being in the past 6 days. My brain just stopped producing ANY good chemicals. The brain heals right? Well when the spirit is broken....you'll start to lose faith in that too.
I just accepted that this was it for me. I am probably going to feel this for the rest of my life. And it's not that I'm okay with it....but I guess I just developed this coping mechanism in the past 6 days of suffering.... that was that, I accept this. I hate it. I hate me. But I'll go on. I gave myself no other choices.
I went to bed on day 6 feeling COMPLETE hopelessness.....really and truly weighing the idea that is it worth living anymore.....I had absolutely no idea that I would wake up the next morning and feel that first BURST of joy inside of my chest. It was more powerful and satisfying than I ever imagined it to be. I began waking up each day....deciding to get up and take a bath, get dressed, do whatever....simply because the idea of doing that made me feel good. I never ever imagined that I would feel this way or get to know what this feels like again after completely losing myself to drugs. But I did.
I truly believe that sometimes with withdrawals we need to hit COMPLETE rock bottom before there's no where else to go but up. So if you are feeling absolutely hopeless and like "will this ever end if so....when".....well, if you're as far down as you can possibly go, than probably tomorrow.
But you have to hit that.
The worse that you feel, the closer you are. And just know...you won't encounter anything that you really can't handle. We as humans developed a way of coping with anything. You will survive. So lose hope. But at the same time...don't.
Don't listen to anybody's stories online about how it took them weeks or months to recover....
It's all about how quickly you hit that rock bottom. So that you can fly again. And you might not be able to remember what that feels like....but you will. And just in time. Not a second too late.
It's worth it.

 

[mrsnowygrainius]

Hello and congrats on wanting to get off subs, I still on subs and have been for 4 years now. If what I read correctly in your post, you are talking about using other opiates to get off of subs right? 2 years ago I tried getting off my subs, and I did I got weened down to less then 1 mg a day so what I did was started using dope again.

I ended up getting stuck on the dope again but yea I got off the subs was no longer dependent on suboxone during that 2-3 month period but then I had to come off of dope BUT i deff beat having to detox off subs because my withdrawals only lasted about a week or so cuz it was just the dope I was coming off of...

to answer your question- yes this method works to come off of subs but its very risky as you can see I failed and had to get back on subs because Im just not ready to be off of opiates yet... maybe in a few years... who knows...

 

[Sherr70]

Agirl77 - I am not an addict but I loved a heroin addict for 5 years. I stood by him n tried to help him fight. I stayed through multiple relapses n rehabs n jail n him turning on me. He went bck to rehab last August n I finally thought we would be ok. I was wrong. The minute he got freedom he changed. It was like he was on dope but he was dropping clean. Then he said he didn't want to come home. Then on xmas day he told me he no longer loved me n he never spoke to me again. Just like that I was cut off. He also left me w his dog he adopted 2 yrs ago. He told everyone at rehab terrible things about me. Told his family terrible things about me. I left him alone n then he served me w a restraining order. Like he couldn't hurt me enough. So cold n so many promises broken. He told everyone he would nvr do dope again because he didn't ever want come bck to me. He's on single sites. This is how he treats me when he on dope n has other place to live. He's still at rehab place n they gave him a job. Is this recovery? I heard he started using Kratom to get high n be able to pass drug test. I'm so lost n confused. There's nothing I can do but doesn't lesson the pain I feel.

 

[perpetualmotion288]

You are stepping down too quickly for your situation...way too quickly!
I'm sure it feels horrible.

A .25mg (that's a quarter of a miligram) reduction every FIFTH day will be pretty comfortable to most people on long term maintenance.

Some people on long term maintnance even need smaller steps than that for the final few miligrams...
You would likely need a different prescription, but I have seen steps of less than 100ug (micrograms) spaced up to 2 weeks apart for the final 2mg.
I'm not sure of the efficiency of this method, I personally think it may just be a way to keep billing for office visits for as long as possible.

You CAN do this!