Opioids Once per week plan failing... finally?

[arthunter888]

So the moment I started using opiates, I had already researched them thoroughly and hence made a pact with myself not to exceed once-per-week (once per 7 days) use so as to avoid dependence and withdrawal. DOCs are oxymorphone (most used by far), dope, suboxone, and oxycodone. All of these are nasal.

So as of now it's been close to 2 years and I've stuck with my plan fairly well. It started out with oxycodone for the first 3 months, then switched to oxymorphone (nasal) for the next 18 months or so, and from then to present I've been choosing a mixture of dope and oxymorphone for using-day. So far I've stuck with once per week 90% of the time. Occasionally I'd do twice per week, separated by 3 days, the second time being the usual choice or low dose suboxone for a nice pseudo-opiate buzz.

The entire first 18 months, I felt fine on non-using days. No sign of even mild withdrawal. Then in the past 3-4 months, I started feeling 'down' 1-2 days after using (still well and good, I can handle this). Now recently, for nearly every non-using day I am in mild depression and anxiety, and that slight jittery/cold feeling. It's obvious I'm in mild withdrawal now pretty much all the time. This mild withdrawal is almost nonexistent when I cut Opana out of using day: if I use just dope or just oxycodone, there's virtually none of this. But when all or most of using day was with Opana, this is when it's most noticeable.
----------------------------------------

Keep in mind I'm still at once per week, so I'm wondering what is drawing me towards dependence. The main culprit, I think, could be the fact that on using day, I re-dose several times (sometimes 5+ 'booster' bumps). It's been this way from the beginning, and over time it has definitely raised my tolerance. I used to need just 4-5mg of oxymorphone, now I need 6-7 (I weigh my doses).

Well, it was a fun ride, but I'm gonna have change something now. So what do you guys think screwed up my 'free ride'? Was it re-dosing again and again on using day that built up a dependence, or was it inevitable that with time-- even once per week would turn into dependence--even if NOT re-dosing on using day?

 

[mr. mudd]

I chipped for about 8 years before I had a physical habit. I would advise you to scale back operations to once every 2 weeks. If that still goes poorly, make it once every three weeks, and so on. Exercise on your non-opiate days if you can.

Though you've shown admirable discipline, it's very easy to grant yourself a special occasion. Don't.

Also, and I'm not speaking scientifically now, my own experience has been that once I got a physical dependence on opiates my body will go into withdrawal from a single dose after, say, three weeks of not using. It's not full-blown withdrawal, but it's bad and certainly nothing like the way I felt when I was chipping (I would feel good the next day and normal the day after).

 

[comatoserct]

I've heard of opana giving an "opiate hangover," and it's been known to cause mild withdrawal symptoms in people who use recreationally.

That being said, it might just be the fact you've been using opiates for years now, and although it's no where near daily, your brain is still spending a day releasing tons of endorphins, which after time, has taken it's toll.

I'd say just stick with dope/roxy/subs and if this feeling continues, give it a break for a while and maybe try once every 2 weeks/once a month.

 

[Hh0oUuSsEe]

Mr. Mudd....
Damn, really? You went into wd from a single use after three weeks?
Does that mean you went through full wd's for two or three weeks...and then dosed one time after and that threw you back in wd's? Scaaaary

 

[BlueLightBeam]

Once a week, at such a low dose, will not lead to a physical addiction (in my ho/pe), but may lead to a mental dependence.

 

[Zenethylamine]

You've got a beautiful thing going here, and I'd hate to see you give up on it so easily... hahaha. Despite your once weekly use, you seem to have built up a slight tolerance - if you take a break, perhaps for a month or two, you'll probably reset your tolerance. Perhaps you could reschedule to account for breaks every so often. Say, 10 months on / 2 months off, or something such.

 

[Pegasus]

^I agree with that, you definitely need breaks of longer than a week in there. A schedule like once a week is pretty often, maybe try 10-14 day breaks in the future, with longer breaks occasionally?

 

[dokomo]

I've been maintaining once per month for 7 years now (thats one single dose, one time per month.)

No dependence, but tolerance has risen and I crave it at times in between.

 

[SkagKush]

once a week.....ha

i cant use once without starting everyday.

i have proved that time and time again.......

 

[RedRum OG]

you sir are on a steep, steep cliff, that every addict was once on. stop. right. fucking. now. if you do now want to become a full blown addict. everyone, including me, says once a week. maybe this week i can do it twice. then before you know it 3 times a week... then eventually every day. then you realize snorting is lame because you waste like 2/3 of your drug. then you start shooting. then your tolerance skyrockets. then you use 5 times a day. then you live on the streets.

OP, stop. now. at least take a month off or something.

 

[stevein7]

What about using codeine or kratom some weeks?

Are they not less addictive.

Some weeks do half your dose/Abstain with something else like weed or mdai.

A monthly bottle of red wine?
Will power . Do not believe theree is inevitability, make decisions.

Exercise is important in all circumstances .


A little mxe (20mg)

chew coca tea.

 

[mr. mudd]

Mr. Mudd....
Damn, really? You went into wd from a single use after three weeks?
Does that mean you went through full wd's for two or three weeks...and then dosed one time after and that threw you back in wd's? Scaaaary

Yeah, lucky me. I think it might be different if I ever stayed abstinent long enough to allow my receptors to heal completely. For me, using once after three weeks' abstinence doesn't mean I'm in full-on withdrawal, but the following night I couldn't sleep, had sweats, restlessness, etc. I couldn't tell you how long it would have lasted because I scored the next day and resumed the habit. It seems to get easier and easier for me to have a physical habit.

 

[BrokedownPalace]

Regardless of time in between doses, and sort of regularity will create a mental tolerance. Your mind gets used to the effects, more receptors need to be filled, so in result your dose will need to increase to get the same effects you first did. Your schedule won't result in a physical dependence, so you shouldn't relaly be feeling any withdrawal symptoms. In between doses you may feel a bit lethargic, depressed, anxious, may get a little body ache for a day or two and some insomnia. But in regards to actual withdrawal, you are not going to experience any physical symptoms that would resemble a true, painful detox.

Your doses are low enough and infrequent enough so if you continue you shouldn't develop a physical dependency. But, like you said occasionally you started taking a dose on a day you aren't supposed to. Quite simply this is when the problem starts to slowly manifest.

Believe me, these strict dosage schedules work, but only if you follow them exactly and do not take extra or dose on days off. But realistically, this is VERY hard to do, and I commend you on your self control thus far.

Unfortunately though, the sad truth is most people who end up strung out and shooting dope all the time and in/out of rehabs, jail, detox, methadone clinics, etc - they all started just taking a pill here and there. But due to their ever-increasing tolerance they need more and more, and 1 opana each weekend turns into 2 opanas, then twice a week, three times a week, to daily.. You get what I am saying.

Moral of the story: If you stick to your schedule to a T and do not waiver at all, you will avoid physical dependence and any major physical symptoms of withdrawal. You may feel it psychologically, but that is natural. I commend you on your efforts so far, it is incredibly difficult to succeed doing this for any long period of time. I started out using once a month or something, and then gradually over 3-4 years I went from taking a couple vicoden occasionally and puking from 20mg, to IVing a gram of east coast heroin a day.

Stay strong, and best of luck. If you need any help your have any questions, don't hesitate to private message me.

Cheers,

Mike

 

[NeighborhoodThreat]

^Browndown is right, as it RedRum_OG, while these dosing schedules are good things to follow, they get harder and harder to do. Eventually you start rationalizing taking doses more often for whatever reason. Maybe you have stronger willpower than me but I've been in that situation, and it turned into dosing every few days and then you can't remember when the last time you didn't take opiates was.

If you feel you are falling down the slippery slope, you probably are, but that means you have the power to stop it before it gets worse. Take a step back, reduce your doses if you need or follow the advice given by another poster, switch to a weaker opiate such as codeine or kratom, even tramadol...

Best of luck man, and keep us updated as to your progress.

 

[arthunter888]

What about using codeine or kratom some weeks?
Are they not less addictive.

Well, firstly I don't have access to either of these. Secondly, either of these will have intensely unpleasant side-effects at the doses I would require to equal the potency of oxymorphone. And that's not considering that codeine is loaded with tylenol to start with.

if you take a break, perhaps for a month or two, you'll probably reset your tolerance. Perhaps you could reschedule to account for breaks every so often. Say, 10 months on / 2 months off, or something such.

^I agree with that, you definitely need breaks of longer than a week in there. A schedule like once a week is pretty often, maybe try 10-14 day breaks in the future, with longer breaks occasionally?

I'm sure it would be helpful, and I have taken 2-week breaks on occasions, but changing my regular schedule to longer than a week is not going to happen--I just don't have the willpower to go longer without using. My life at this point is so uneventful that the one day of bliss is all I have to look forward too (a bit sad huh) at the end of the week, especially after grinding for 40 hours per week at a shitty job. So the strong mental aspect is def a factor.

@zenethylamine: (although I find the implied attachment of zen to a chemical class of stimulants to be contradictory,) cool idea for a username .

Once a week, at such a low dose, will not lead to a physical addiction (in my ho/pe), but may lead to a mental dependence.

I'm certain the mental dependence exists, however I disagree that this "will not" lead to a physical addiction. The symptoms I experience after coming off of oxymorphone are classic withdrawal symptoms, even though their mild intensity can not deem them "full-blown withdrawal." There are probably degrees of physical dependence, and I'm most likely at the tip of the iceberg.

 

[BrokedownPalace]

I'm certain the mental dependence exists, however I disagree that this "will not" lead to a physical addiction. The symptoms I experience after coming off of oxymorphone are classic withdrawal symptoms, even though their mild intensity can not deem them "full-blown withdrawal." There are probably degrees of physical dependence, and I'm most likely at the tip of the iceberg.

Well, if you read my response carefully, I specifically said you may feel some very minor physical symptoms, like lethargy, aches/pains.. plus the insomnia/anxiety.

But I really do not believe dosing 6mg, one time per week, will develop a physical dependence. The half life of oxymorphone is around 8 hours.. Half-life is exponential, not linear, so after 8 hours you would then have 3mg left. another 8 hours, 1.5mg left, and so on.

So at that rate, your ENTIRE dose would be gone in roughly 5 half lives. That means you would be totally clean in around 40 hours or so. Less than two days.

So based on that, please explain to me how dosing 6mg of oxymorphone a week will create a physical dependence? I do acknowledge the fact that the mental feelings and cravings will be present, but you WILL NOT experience anything major. A little sniffle and some muscle aches probably at worst.. easily rectified with ibuprofen.

A big part of withdrawals are psychosomatic. On days with no pill, an idle mind dwellling on the fact you can't get high, will exacerbate withdrawal symptoms. I used to think all the rehab jargon and shit was bullshit, but this I truly believe. If you sit there, anticipating the withdrawal, sure you'll start feeling shitty. But from your dose/regimen there is no way you are going to get the symptoms of classic hardcore opiate withdrawal. Such as vomiting, insane diarrhea, excruciating pain, tearing, runny nose, muscle spasms, heart palpitations, RESTLESS LEG SYNDROME, INSOMNIA, etc etc. Im sure you get the picture.

I am not trying to judge you or downplay your situation at all, and I hope you don't take my posts as me attacking you or anything. I am having the worst day of my life so I am not in the kindest of moods.

 

[Pegasus]

^For the record, I believe the rule of thumb is 8 half-life cycles for the drug to be considered dropped to insignificant levels... Someone correct me if I'm wrong, I'm sure I'm very close, at least...

 

[HdoubleODeezy]

^you are very close indeed.. just my .02 -> depends on the half life and dose taken.. if you take 5mg oxy it will be out of your system (mostly) before 8 half life cycles, but with 80mg or 160mg it may take more than 8 to get yourself back to baseline. This is just an example, i didn't look up oxys half life so just substitute with whatever you want, but with his low opana dose 8 cycles might be right (again i didn't look at the half life).. so you could be completely right, i just think dose plays a part in how many HL cycles it will take to get outta your system.

But for *average* doses as in *not over the top doses* i think you are completely right that 8 HL cycles *should* have most of the drug outta your system.. bet aren't we starting to get into a grey area talking about how long drugs stay in your system.. for DT reasons?

EDIT: it all depends on an individuals metabolism also

 

[arthunter888]

So based on that, please explain to me how dosing 6mg of oxymorphone a week will create a physical dependence? I do acknowledge the fact that the mental feelings and cravings will be present, but you WILL NOT experience anything major. A little sniffle and some muscle aches probably at worst.. easily rectified with ibuprofen.

Well, you should remember that I'm not taking a single 6mg dose once a week (that's just a 'starting dose'). Although it is one DAY per week, on that day I start off snorting 6mg, then a few hours later I'll do another 2mg, then a few hours another 6mg, then a few hours another 2mg, etc. Sometimes I'll do an upwards of 20-30mg total in a 24-hour period.

Someone at BL long ago told me that administering many equal or even smaller doses repeated in the same day WILL lead to an up-regulation of opiate receptors. You're probably right in saying that no MAJOR dependence will result, but an up-regulation of receptors will most likely entail depleted endorphin levels for several days afterward. And this (for me) equates to not only mental symptoms like depression and anxiety, but physical as well like headaches and slight cold-flashes, which are mild (compared to those of true addicts), but still noticeable.

So, in the end I'm not really sure. It's a question of how you define physical dependence. Some would say I'm physically dependent simply because of mild withdrawal symptoms presenting, other would say I'm not because the extent of these is too mild. I always assumed X-intensity of withdrawal indicated X-extent of physical dependence.