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On behalf of _ unnamed - question - serotonin syndrone &

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MDPV.... does anyone have any indictaion if this is a possibility ??????

Dosages are 50mgs sertraline (daily) so two lots of sertraline & about 125mgs of MDPV ingested over about 30 hours & ceterizine hydrochloride (120mgs taken within the last hour)- thoughts & opinions on liklihood of this occurring would be appreciated.


Would be lectures on the dangers of not researching drugs would be inappropriate thank you. :)
 
Well wiki says its a dopamine and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor, so i guess combining it with an ssri should feel pretty good! How does it take effect so quickly while ssri are supposed to take days to kick in? I took reboxetine for a while before (snri) and the effects were almost immediate.
 
I'm not sure if this is a potential or not. That's the danger in poorly researched substances, I suppose.

Judging that it's a DARI and NARI, I would say that she'll be safe.

And SSRIs don't take days to kick in. They inhibit serotonin reuptake within a single dose. It takes days (weeks) for the antidepressant effects to begin, though.
 
Also from wiki! Bupropion is an SNRI/dopamine reuptake inhibitor and "According to several surveys, the augmentation of a prescribed SSRI with bupropion is the preferred strategy among clinicians when the patient does not respond to the SSRI."

Ham-milton, why can the effects of extra NE be felt immediately then while the antidepressant effect (and therefore i presume the effect of extra serotonin floating around) takes a much longer time to build up? Is serotonin reuptake slower?
 
Well NARIs tend to be a little more 'enjoyable.' I can feel a pure SSRI from one does.

I'm fairly certain that the antidepressant effect is the result of increased serotonin levels over a length of time. Meaning that serotonin levels may be increased right away, but that they need to be maintained at that level for a long period of time before antidepressant effects are felt.
 
But the antidepressant effects of a dose of x begin immediately!

Again according to wikipedia! The initial accumulation of serotonin causes a reduction in serotonin production by feedback via presynaptic autoreceptors. These become downregulated over time allowing serotonin levels to increase. Then increase in serotonin causes downregulation of postsynaptic receptors so the higher concentration of serotonin triggers a larger percentage of now relatively sparse receptors.

By that logic it should be possible to feel the effects of the first few doses, might have a go if i can find one.

I would think the same would apply to snri's but it doesnt say about their pharmacodynamics.
 
I went to a lecture the other day by a researcher who was reviewing antidepressant prescribing practices and efficacy over the last 10 years, and he reckoned that the whole thing about SSRIs taking weeks before they start producing antidepressant effects is actually quite an outdated theory which hasn't stood up in more recent research.

He said that while it can take several weeks for SSRIs to reach full effectiveness, they start working within days, and some patients can show significant benefit from a course of SSRIs as short as 4 weeks (which the older research would say isn't even long enough for them to start working at all)

That made sense to me, as I've always thought it seemed strange that it would take 5 or 6 weeks for a drug to start working when you can clearly feel the serotonin flush come on within half an hour of taking the first dose (in my experience anyway).

As for serotonin syndrome from a combination of MDPV and sertraline, I wouldn't be too concerned. MDPV is mainly a dopamine reuptake inhibitor with some noradrenaline reuptake, doesn't affect serotonin much at all as far as I know. Sertraline is a moderately selective SSRI (Ki values 5HTT 0.29; NET 420; DAT 25) so actually the sertraline/MDPV combo could be quite good as an antidepressant, similar to those newer "triple action" compounds that are being developed, although I believe MDPV builds tolerance quite fast.
 
dorothyperkins said:
But the antidepressant effects of a dose of x begin immediately!

Again according to wikipedia! The initial accumulation of serotonin causes a reduction in serotonin production by feedback via presynaptic autoreceptors. These become downregulated over time allowing serotonin levels to increase. Then increase in serotonin causes downregulation of postsynaptic receptors so the higher concentration of serotonin triggers a larger percentage of now relatively sparse receptors.

By that logic it should be possible to feel the effects of the first few doses, might have a go if i can find one.

I would think the same would apply to snri's but it doesnt say about their pharmacodynamics.
Click to expand...

MDMA isn't an SSRI, it's a releaser of serotonin. Quite different.
 
I was under the impression that it temporarily prevented reuptake mechanism I
 
I believe MDMA binds to the same target as SSRIs on the serotonin reuptake transporter, but instead of just stopping the transporter from pumping like SSRIs do, MDMA makes it run in reverse, so it pumps serotonin directly from the cytoplasm into the synapse.

Also because its an amphetamine it releases serotonin, dopamine and noradrenaline by increasing vesicle trafficking and so it releases serotonin by two seperate mechanisms and empties both the vesicular and the cytoplasmic stores. Hence why it causes such a big flood of serotonin, and also why it depletes it so badly.
 
mad_scientist said:
I believe MDMA binds to the same target as SSRIs on the serotonin reuptake transporter, but instead of just stopping the transporter from pumping like SSRIs do, MDMA makes it run in reverse, so it pumps serotonin directly from the cytoplasm into the synapse.

Also because its an amphetamine it releases serotonin, dopamine and noradrenaline by increasing vesicle trafficking and so it releases serotonin by two seperate mechanisms and empties both the vesicular and the cytoplasmic stores. Hence why it causes such a big flood of serotonin, and also why it depletes it so badly.
Click to expand...

That's the best description of effects anyone is ever gonna get. Well said.
 
Yep, MDMA is an odd case where the SERT is concerned, making it run in reverse. I guess it has a different binding site... or the conformation is _dramatically_ altered if it binds to the same place SSRIs do. And yeah then you have the usual amphetamine VMAT2 binding.

As for the SSRIs taking weeks to take effect, I can _sort_ of believe that. I'd expect they sortaaa start working almost immediately from the raised 5-HT levels but for the real benefcial effects to appear it does take a while, because you get that "flattening out" effect on receptor activity that you want once there's been sufficient amount of time for the modulation to happen (downregulation, etc).
 
excuse me for rolling up this ancient thread, but ive recently kicked my ssri medication and came to the conclusion that there is is some distinguishable difference in action.

so ive found a new article on pubmed that has been released january this year
Serotonin Syndrome Associated With MDPV Use: A Case Report.
Mugele J, Nañagas KA, Tormoehlen LM.
Source

Indiana University School of Medicine, Indianapolis, IN.
Abstract

Serotonin syndrome is associated with use of certain street drugs, including methamphetamine, cocaine, and ecstasy. We describe a case of a woman who developed clinical findings consistent with serotonin syndrome after insufflation of 3,4-methylenedioxypyrovalerone (MDPV), a synthetic amphetamine. MDPV belongs to a group of substances called phenylethylamines, which are β-ketone analogs of other drugs of abuse, such as amphetamines and 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine. She also received fentanyl initially during her hospitalization, which has also been associated with serotonin syndrome. In addition to benzodiazepines and supportive care, she was treated with cyproheptadine for 8 days, with slow resolution of her symptoms.

Copyright © 2011. Published by Mosby, Inc.

PMID:
22237165
[PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
Click to expand...
Code: 
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22237165
 
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why do all these non-morphinan opioids have serotonergic properties? Fucking meperidine, tramadol, fentanyl, methadone and what else?
 
"MDPV belongs to a group of substances called phenylethylamines, which are β-ketone analogs of other drugs of abuse, such as amphetamines and 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine. "

How the hell did this make it to an academic abstract?
MDPV has negligible affinity for SERT, so it shouldn't carry much of a risk of inducing serotonin syndrome, even in combinations.

ebola
 
It seems to have in this case though... While the quality of abstract leads to some doubt, I'm fairly sure they would have tested for other drugs to rule them out.
 
Coolwhip said:
I imagine it has a synergistic pain killing affect. Since we know SSRI's also help with chronic pain. I didn't know methadone was serotonergic, I guess because the respiratory depression should get you before SS.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19544673

Shitty way to die.
Click to expand...

Wow so the symptoms of serotonin syndrome actually delayed the onset of the actual opioid overdose symptoms, and when the serotonergic activity decreased the overdose symptoms took over, thats like an episode of house right there!
 
hmm, ive read many times that an ssri can be used to counteract the neurotoxic effects of mdma by simpy blocking the pathways mdma uses.
what im not fully understanding is that this doesnt lead to SS or does it?
im also thinking that its maybe not so easy for the emergency care unit to distinguish the adverse effects of many drugs to SS as they share a lot of symptoms.
ive came to the thought of mdpv having some serotonine action as ive overdosed on 4fa (∼600mg) while beeing on 20 mg fluoxetine (not knowing that 4fa's action is manly based on serotonine, feeling nothing of its effects and redosing)
2 days after that ive went on a a mdpv binge having some strange adverse effects, feeling as if i had low blood pressure(presynkopes while standing up and smoking), extreme nausea, sweating like a horse, acute diarrhea defactating transparent muscus and a overall sick dysphoric feelings(beside the ones that mdpv introduces you to)
 
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