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Heroin on and off, heroin and subutex

J

JMMS

Greenlighter
Joined
May 11, 2014
Messages
30
hi guys, i wanted your opinion about wd. First i would like to say that i will go to therapy again. After 5 years sober i relapsed for two weeks and a half (half a gram a day. Then i was (when i say h is always half a gram and subutex is always 2 mg): 3 days on sub, 1 on h, 5 on sub, 1 clean, 3 on h, 5 on sub. Today, 36 hours after the last sub and feeling no wd i relapse again on h. In your opinion will i wd from heroin? And if so, will it be very mild or should i get more subutex? I'm only asking dor the physical part, im geeting help next week for the mental. Thanks
 
your gunna WD NO MATTER WHAT. Suboxone is a opiate it in itself - Bupenorphine. Nd your body is addicted to Opiates in general, not just he 'H", or the "subs" at the time, its the fact that they are all opiates, so eventaully when you detox from "all of your opiates you keep consuming ie. H & sub) you will have WDs to an extent-- no matter what. How horrible they are depend on manny factors which im not even going to get into...but you know atleast have any idea...
 
Yes, but subutex is used to detox from H, and i didn't took long enough to be addicted to it.
 
^^

That's not how addiction and withdrawal works. You don't get addicted to specific drugs like heroin or suboxone of oxy, etc. You get an opiate dependency, so no matter what your DOC is, switching to another is just trading the drug, but you're still dependent. The reason why people switch to maint drugs like bupe, is because it has a long half life that allows for once daily dosing, is a partial agonist so the withdrawals are lighter, and it does not stimulate the opiate receptors like a full agonist like heroin does, therefore it's a lot easier to control and taper with. So, you will withdrawal no matter what once you pick up a dependency, it doesn't matter what the DOC. However, what you can change, is how intense the withdrawals will be and the duration. Coming off as low of a dose as possible, will make your withdrawals very minimal. That's why you switch to bupe or methadone, taper down to a very low dose, and then come off. You'll still dependent on opiates no matter how long you take the bupe for, the only thing that will change is the severity of symptoms and how long the overall withdrawal will last. That's why you taper.

That make sense?
 
It makes sense. But i tappered down the sub, and i was feeling no wd. I fought a lot not to go and buy H now... i'm without subs... 13 hours passed and i'm not feeling wd, but my anxious state is trough the roof....
 
Pill__Head said:
your gunna WD NO MATTER WHAT. Suboxone is a opiate it in itself - Bupenorphine. Nd your body is addicted to Opiates in general, not just he 'H", or the "subs" at the time, its the fact that they are all opiates, so eventaully when you detox from "all of your opiates you keep consuming ie. H & sub) you will have WDs to an extent-- no matter what. How horrible they are depend on manny factors which im not even going to get into...but you know atleast have any idea...
Click to expand...

I am pretty sure I have seen you say this multiple times on this forum, well guess what? YOU'RE WRONG! I am not sure if you have any experience or are just talking out your ass like a lot of people seem to do, but I have had very heavy heroin habits before. If I didn't take anything, horrible withdrawals, all the symptoms. I did 1 week or so on just bupe, no h. Stopped the bupe, and such mild withdrawal symptoms, that I usually just say no withdrawals (I definitely didn't notice them at the time, only now that I really know what to look for can even say there were mild WD).

So please, if you haven't tried it yourself, don't give others bad advice.
 
Well, i don't have great experience with subutex, 5/6 years when i got clean i never eard of that. I know that it's my secund relapse this year, and in the first, i managed to use subutex without wd to get clean... but this time, i'm failing.... AH, and i know that are clinics that use a 4 to 7 days subutex to detox from H, without any wd, and i eard in the first person many people who done it without wd.. but i'm using it wrong and relapsing a lot, thai i know.... and the first coments left me very, but very anxious... in the meanwhile i informed myself better and saw that they are not completly acurate.. but yes, i'm not using it well, and i'll try 7 more days tapping it down, and if i cannot do it, i will seek professional help to do so... in the meanwhile, professional help to the emocional/psicological part i will get help, again, i already passed a 1 year therapy, almost 6 years ago.
I thank you all for your coments, it's a very sensible subgect as we all know..
I apolegize for my writen english, unfortunaly there are no foruns like this one in my native language, i'm from and live in another country.
 
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alleyezonme3 said:
I am pretty sure I have seen you say this multiple times on this forum, well guess what? YOU'RE WRONG! I am not sure if you have any experience or are just talking out your ass like a lot of people seem to do, but I have had very heavy heroin habits before. If I didn't take anything, horrible withdrawals, all the symptoms. I did 1 week or so on just bupe, no h. Stopped the bupe, and such mild withdrawal symptoms, that I usually just say no withdrawals (I definitely didn't notice them at the time, only now that I really know what to look for can even say there were mild WD).

So please, if you haven't tried it yourself, don't give others bad advice.
Click to expand...

An opiate is an opiate is an opiate.

Bupe withdrawals are nasty if you don't get em it means you've tapered down off the stuff properly or you are just weird in that your body doesn't get addicted to opiates. Bupe w/D's are not as intense as heroin but last so long and are torture for a lot of people. Bupe is weaker but still a powerful opiate with addictive potential like any other opiate. Your actually wrong so don't ream the other guy out come on you don't sound like an expert by any means. If bupe was an opiate with no withdrawal then we would have hit the jackpot and nobody would be addicts
 
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trainspotter10102 said:
An opiate is an opiate is an opiate.

Bupe withdrawals are nasty if you don't get em it means you've tapered down off the stuff properly or you are just weird in that your body doesn't get addicted to opiates. Bupe w/D's are not as intense as heroin but last so long and are torture for a lot of people. Bupe is weaker but still a powerful opiate with addictive potential like any other opiate. Your actually wrong so don't ream the other guy out come on you don't sound like an expert by any means. If bupe was an opiate with no withdrawal then we would have hit the jackpot and nobody would be addicts
Click to expand...


Well said, trainspotter.
 
Mr.Scagnattie said:
^^

That's not how addiction and withdrawal works. You don't get addicted to specific drugs like heroin or suboxone of oxy, etc. You get an opiate dependency, so no matter what your DOC is, switching to another is just trading the drug, but you're still dependent. The reason why people switch to maint drugs like bupe, is because it has a long half life that allows for once daily dosing, is a partial agonist so the withdrawals are lighter, and it does not stimulate the opiate receptors like a full agonist like heroin does, therefore it's a lot easier to control and taper with. So, you will withdrawal no matter what once you pick up a dependency, it doesn't matter what the DOC. However, what you can change, is how intense the withdrawals will be and the duration. Coming off as low of a dose as possible, will make your withdrawals very minimal. That's why you switch to bupe or methadone, taper down to a very low dose, and then come off. You'll still dependent on opiates no matter how long you take the bupe for, the only thing that will change is the severity of symptoms and how long the overall withdrawal will last. That's why you taper.

That make sense?
Click to expand...

That^

I will say though, that the withdrawals from IV buprenorphine are fucking horrible. I guess it's the long half-life or high doses, but to me they we're worse than oxy withdrawal. Not as intense as H/morphine withdrawal, but they last longer. Of course, nothing conpares to the absolute hell of methadone DT's...

But to the OP: don't kid yourself. One good gram of dope is all it takes to kick start an addiction. Remember, every time you get "clean" and relapse, your body becomes addicted faster each time.
After years of use, you can go a week without opies, do one big shot of dope, and it's as if you never quit...
 
Lorne??? said:
That^

I will say though, that the withdrawals from IV buprenorphine are fucking horrible. I guess it's the long half-life or high doses, but to me they we're worse than oxy withdrawal. Not as intense as H/morphine withdrawal, but they last longer. Of course, nothing conpares to the absolute hell of methadone DT's...

But to the OP: don't kid yourself. One good gram of dope is all it takes to kick start an addiction. Remember, every time you get "clean" and relapse, your body becomes addicted faster each time.
After years of use, you can go a week without opies, do one big shot of dope, and it's as if you never quit...
Click to expand...

True I quit for a while then thought I'll do heroin just this one friday payday and bam I was right back where I was one month ago.
 
Ok, thanks you all. One thing is certain, i've already eard it all.. even doctors say different things...
 
trainspotter10102 said:
True I quit for a while then thought I'll do heroin just this one friday payday and bam I was right back where I was one month ago.
Click to expand...

Ha yeah man I've been there. "Oh just one more day" or "Ahh just once or twice a month" :\ It's all bullshit hah.

Lorne??? said:
That^

I will say though, that the withdrawals from IV buprenorphine are fucking horrible. I guess it's the long half-life or high doses, but to me they we're worse than oxy withdrawal. Not as intense as H/morphine withdrawal, but they last longer. Of course, nothing conpares to the absolute hell of methadone DT's...

But to the OP: don't kid yourself. One good gram of dope is all it takes to kick start an addiction. Remember, every time you get "clean" and relapse, your body becomes addicted faster each time.
After years of use, you can go a week without opies, do one big shot of dope, and it's as if you never quit...
Click to expand...

Yeah bupe withdrawal can be a real bitch, and because of the long half-life, last quite a while. The doctors and whatnot, severely understated how bad the withdrawals would be (among many other incorrect information given).
 
Yea its crazy how much misinformation doctors tell us about suboxone/bupe. I dont know how that can be but I guess I shouldn't be shocked.
 
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