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Old school ecstacy question

Foreigner

Foreigner

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Mar 18, 2009
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Ok so, let me start off by saying this question is going to contain some seriously ignorant shit, and is a blind spot in my HR knowledge that is kind of embarrassingly real.

"Back in the day" I used to rave a lot, maybe twice a month. You know... back when raves were prolific in North America, and actually good. I did a lot of E, back when pure MDMA was rare. And you know, those pills were cut with all kinds of shit. Since then, I've done a lot of pure M and I notice that it makes me kind of sleepy and dopey on the come up.

My friend who is an ex crystal meth addict and I were talking. I said to him it's weird how E back in the day used to be so energizing, and now MDMA is more laid back. He said, "That's because you were taking meth, dear." And laughed.

Basically, I have a history of meth use that didn't even register in my mind until just now. It actually explains a lot of the mental health problems I had in my early 20's, thinking back.

So I want to ask... how does the amount of meth inside of an E pill compare to say, smoking crystal meth? I have never done crystal meth, but it's popular in the gay community and sex parties. A lot of those guys I've dated have emotional problems that they admit is partly due to very long term meth use (10 years or more). Now I'm wondering if some of my mental health problems as an adult are due to a history of raving and taking meth-laced pills once or twice a month?

If someone could please educate me a bit on oral meth use, the differences between oral meth and crystal meth, and any effects on the brain I should be aware of, that would be amazing.

My history is:
Age 18-21: lots of raving and E use
Age 21-28: maybe did MDMA a small handful of times, no more E
Age 28+: haven't touched MD* class drugs at all, but lots of psychedelic use (LSD, K, DMT, etc.)

I heard a rumor that people who do meth get emotionally stunted at the age they did the meth, but I don't know if this is true or not. Basically I am ignorant as fuck.
 
Oral meth hits different to just smoking straight crystal. Pure crystal has a very strong initial rush. Long term meth users i feel like it removes your empathy and destroys your inner core of who you were making alot of users assholes while on it. The oldschool E's where loaded with mda speed and meth and some mdma. The mafia use to sell alot of meth pills as E in north america. The first thing after doing a meth laced pill is once it hits you get very strong complusive redosing. I was once out there on the side walk looking through the bushs after taking one cause i thought i dropped my other one while fucked up but alas it was on my desk the whole time that is the extent of the complusive redosing effect. Oral meth is safer than smoking crystal smoking and has less addiction potential due to the weaker rush.

Meth use will induce depression irritability and aggression. A inability to feel pleasure for everyday things while sober.

Hardcore crystal users will have a hard time regaining a sense of who they were before using meth.

Oral meth has also been used as a adhd and weight loss medication in america. I found the meth laced pills just made me want to fight if somebody annoyed me at a rave and i would probably end up taking all my stash and be awake for 20+ hours.
 
What you're feeling as sleepy come-ups now may just be the result of MehDMA. Check out the What is Wrong with MDMA Today? thread here on the MDMA subforum.

I highly doubt you were taking meth so much without knowing it.
 
TripSitterNZ said:
Oral meth hits different to just smoking straight crystal. Pure crystal has a very strong initial rush. Long term meth users i feel like it removes your empathy and destroys your inner core of who you were making alot of users assholes while on it. The oldschool E's where loaded with mda speed and meth and some mdma. The mafia use to sell alot of meth pills as E in north america. The first thing after doing a meth laced pill is once it hits you get very strong complusive redosing. I was once out there on the side walk looking through the bushs after taking one cause i thought i dropped my other one while fucked up but alas it was on my desk the whole time that is the extent of the complusive redosing effect. Oral meth is safer than smoking crystal smoking and has less addiction potential due to the weaker rush.

Meth use will induce depression irritability and aggression. A inability to feel pleasure for everyday things while sober.

Hardcore crystal users will have a hard time regaining a sense of who they were before using meth.

Oral meth has also been used as a adhd and weight loss medication in america. I found the meth laced pills just made me want to fight if somebody annoyed me at a rave and i would probably end up taking all my stash and be awake for 20+ hours.
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I'm just reading this and being a bit of a hypochondriac. I definitely used to have problems with major decision making, sometimes to a crippling degree, and I have a hard time letting go of unproductive habits. But I also don't have an addictive personality, so I'm not sure. One time when I was 23, I had an actual nervous breakdown and hospitalization because I deliberated on a major decision for months and months.

When I was younger, I did a lot of E, but I only did single pills (not multiples) and I never re-dosed. I'd take one pill, dance, and then be done for the night. Mind you, I'd smoke a lot of weed and it would keep the E high going all night. By morning I was cracked out, and jaw grinding. I was also horny AF. I never seemed to compulsively re-dose, ever.

I'm just trying to figure out what my brain damage potential was. I remember a couple of times I got so dehydrated I passed out at raves and had to get medic help for overheating. I know excitotoxicity amplifies greatly with high heat and dehydration.

Yes, my late teens were a bit of a shit show. But I did have a hell of a lot of fun :)

My early 20's saw extreme depression and SSRIs. I seem to be a lot more even keel now. I also have done a lot of nootropics to repair my brain over the years... but lord knows if some damage has been permanent or not.

In your opinion... does someone have to be doing meth for a long time to really have permanent alterations?

All the guys I've dated who were former meth addicts seemed to be dead inside. These are guys who have been on and off for 10 years or more. They were really friendly, optimistic and seemingly loving guys, but it was like the lights were on and nobody was home. Not much empathy, or they used a practiced empathy. They were not capable of love as I knew it. I don't want to bad talk meth addicts because I have a lot of compassion... I'm mostly trying to figure out wtf I might've done to myself.
 
All i know is that my friends who used long term heavy meth use (3g + a week during their binges) have zero empathy after been clean for a while. While i have seen some less hardcore users come right over the years but still something missing. I don't think oral meth would of affected as you bad as those who smoke it. I found after long term stim use my short term memory is still pretty bad even after getting clean during the use i had heavy depression. Though i believe using mushrooms has helped repair my brain it is still not the same as i once was a long time ago. My concentration is pretty much non-existent i also lacked alot of emphaty and slowly been recovering it with the help of shrooms.

I think somebody has to either be snorting or smoking meth at decent amounts every week for probably a minimum of 6 months to a year to incure permanent alteration in their personality. Im unsure about long term oral use at 1-2 times a month. But i know if it was orally done each week and every day it would have the same impacts evenutally.
 
This study has shed some light:

Most of the evidence for mAMPH neurotoxicity comes from animals exposed to binge dosing regimens. Although human mAMPH abusers have been reported to take the drug in prolonged “runs” involving multiple sequential doses, binge administration is not the typical pattern of first or habitual mAMPH use. As is typical with many other drugs of abuse, human mAMPH users initially take low doses and progressively increase their drug intake. This type of escalating dose schedule has been studied in rodents and generally does not produce monoaminergic damage. In fact, escalating doses protect against damage arising from a subsequent single-day [22, 23], but not a multiple-day, mAMPH binge [25], suggesting that prior limited mAMPH exposure provides some, but not blanket, neuroprotection.
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So it's more the binge, multi-dose lifestyle that creates high susceptibility to brain damage. Back when I was doing E, assuming most of the E had some meth in it, I was only doing single doses and then went dancing. I didn't re-dose multiple times during the night, or dose the next day.
 
Foreigner said:
Ok so, let me start off by saying this question is going to contain some seriously ignorant shit, and is a blind spot in my HR knowledge that is kind of embarrassingly real.

"Back in the day" I used to rave a lot, maybe twice a month. You know... back when raves were prolific in North America, and actually good. I did a lot of E, back when pure MDMA was rare. And you know, those pills were cut with all kinds of shit. Since then, I've done a lot of pure M and I notice that it makes me kind of sleepy and dopey on the come up.

My friend who is an ex crystal meth addict and I were talking. I said to him it's weird how E back in the day used to be so energizing, and now MDMA is more laid back. He said, "That's because you were taking meth, dear." And laughed.

Basically, I have a history of meth use that didn't even register in my mind until just now. It actually explains a lot of the mental health problems I had in my early 20's, thinking back.

So I want to ask... how does the amount of meth inside of an E pill compare to say, smoking crystal meth? I have never done crystal meth, but it's popular in the gay community and sex parties. A lot of those guys I've dated have emotional problems that they admit is partly due to very long term meth use (10 years or more). Now I'm wondering if some of my mental health problems as an adult are due to a history of raving and taking meth-laced pills once or twice a month?

If someone could please educate me a bit on oral meth use, the differences between oral meth and crystal meth, and any effects on the brain I should be aware of, that would be amazing.

My history is:
Age 18-21: lots of raving and E use
Age 21-28: maybe did MDMA a small handful of times, no more E
Age 28+: haven't touched MD* class drugs at all, but lots of psychedelic use (LSD, K, DMT, etc.)

I heard a rumor that people who do meth get emotionally stunted at the age they did the meth, but I don't know if this is true or not. Basically I am ignorant as fuck.
Click to expand...

You are assuming that you took meth, because a meth head told you this. Sorry, but pure mdma in the right setting, is very energizing and makes you wanna move. You cannot say with any certainty that you were only taking meth back then. I really doubt that. Meth in pills was even rare at the worst times of product purity in this game. Ive had one pill that was a meth/mdma combo ever........ only 1. Its rare. Does it happen? Yes. It it rare? Even more yes.

Unless your meth head friend is literally a test kit, their opinion is irrelevant.
 
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epic11 said:
You are assuming that you took meth, because a meth head told you this. Sorry, but pure mdma in the right setting, is very energizing and makes you wanna move. You cannot say with any certainty that you were only taking meth back then. I really doubt that. Meth in pills was even rare at the worst times of product purity in this game. Ive had one pill that was a meth/mdma combo ever........ only 1. Its rare. Does it happen? Yes. It it rare? Even more yes.

Unless your meth head friend is literally a test kit, their opinion is irrelevant.
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You're right... but knowing the presentation of speed vs. MDMA now, I can look back and tell that I was definitely taking speed in some of those pills. Maybe not all of them. It's hard to gauge the percentage.

On the whole, much more damage has been done to my serotonin system than my dopamine system, based on how the subsequent years of my life played out. That points more to MDMA. But I wonder about some of the symptoms of long-term meth use, like disability around decision making, and executive function. I do have some of that. Then again, so do a lot of my friends who've never touched drugs. Plus I have complex PTSD as part of the mix, and that can skew things further.
 
%
maddyboy said:
Proof there has ever been a mongy pill cut with smack ?
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$50 worth of smack in a $20 ecstasy tablet makes sense how? Not just that but eating smack doesn't do much.like nothing compared to snorting or smoking you literally need 5x as much to get the same effect.smack just isn't a thing they put in pills.idiiots need to stop spreading this myth.
 
As for the original question 5mapb is in effect so similar to X that it is now a common substitute that and the difference between taking 100mg mdma tablet and a 100mg mdma cap is that it always seemed the tablet would dissolve slowly releasing the drug over an hour leading to a gradual rise to the peak and a cap would have a quicker rise to the peak.molly or crystal/powder uncompressed would also have this effect.as for you believing your meth head friend that's up to you but it's hardly reliable to take secondhand opinions and believe them as fact.can't you tell the difference between X and meth? and you were the one taking it so you should know.there nothing alike and the difference is hugely noticeable.ones euphoric and one isn't.one has a peak one doesn't.and generally speaking I doubt getting high 2x a month for 3yrs in your early twenties with the doses you were taking no it's not enough to cause brain damage.
 
leet said:
He's just having a laugh m8
Click to expand...
Here in Australia I've only found one case where an undercover cop overdosed on what was pressed as X and was infact a morphine/methamphetamine mixture.but in 20years of being in the know not one person has ever seen a test kit or pillreport show ecstasy tablets having a opiate ingredient.100s of batches later and I've never heard seen tested or come across one containing opiates.the dead cops tablet could have been customized just for him for all anyone knows.no one since has died since from smack in an ecstasy tablet.
 
draculic acid69 said:
can't you tell the difference between X and meth? and you were the one taking it so you should know.there nothing alike and the difference is hugely noticeable.ones euphoric and one isn't.one has a peak one doesn't.and generally speaking I doubt getting high 2x a month for 3yrs in your early twenties with the doses you were taking no it's not enough to cause brain damage.
Click to expand...

No I can't remember the difference and I already admitted my own ignorance. It would be nice if people would stop lecturing me on how I should know better and just give me the facts that I am asking for.

Like... I didn't even know that one has a peak and one doesn't. Which one peaks? Are you saying that meth doesn't have a peak?
 
Foreigner said:
Like... I didn't even know that one has a peak and one doesn't. Which one peaks? Are you saying that meth doesn't have a peak?
Click to expand...

It's relative, MDMA has a peak that is much easier to distinguish from the rest of the high the effects are different. Meth comes up and down in a much smoother fashion.
 
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