Ok To IV Subsys Fentanyl Spray?

[BlueHues]

The Benzedrine inhalers contained menthol and people used to inject them all the time for the amphetamine....there's other different amphetamine inhalers that have come out over the years that have contained menthol that have an extensive history of people IVing them....

At quick glance, the number I saw was 12.5 mg menthol....

Just because people do it doesn't mean it's safe, but it's a place to start if you're that paranoid about it.....

Any study involving injecting animals with menthol to extrapolate numbers of how much menthol would have ill-effects on humans, likely involved involved ever-increasing larger amounts of menthol getting up into the multiple 1000s range....

Still, there's a slim chance that under 1mg of menthol could hurt you IV, but considering how common an ingredient it is in all kinds of common products, I seriously doubt under 1mg will do anything to you...

but, I'm not sure, and it's worth investing the time to be safe....

Of course, if you really wanted to be that safe, you probably wouldn't consider IVing fentanyl in a preparation intented to be ingested otherwise in the first place....

 

[Slum Survivor]

Yeah I think it would have a higher bioavailability (and perhaps a faster onset?) nasally. I only suggested that as an alternative to injection. I read sublingual BA for fent is around 50% and nasal around 90%. It easily might burn your nose, I just figured it's gotta be safer than IV. If you're now leaning towards just using it sublingually I certainly don't want to dissuade you, I really think that's the best idea, but liquid drugs can be administered nasally by spraying the drug into your nose or leaning back and dripping the liquid into your nose.

Does it all come out in one spray? If you can dismantle it for injection then you can just as easily squirt a fraction of it under your tongue instead of into your vein for more precise dosing.

ive yet to try one... from what i read and heard its one shot only. and the button/trigger locks in place afterwards. and they are so paranoid about the fentanyl being in the things after use that they give u a bunch of disposal bags and very specific instructions.

so yeah your right, i need to figure out how to break them open. if i was to IV i could do like the user above said, just spray into a spoon or cap and suck it back up. i might even do that just to get it into my nose, and it would allow me to break it into two doses. what u think about that?

 

[Slum Survivor]

The Benzedrine inhalers contained menthol and people used to inject them all the time for the amphetamine....there's other different amphetamine inhalers that have come out over the years that have contained menthol that have an extensive history of people IVing them....

At quick glane, the number I saw was 12.5 mg menthol....

Just because people didn't it doesn't mean it's safe, but it's a place to start if you're that paranoid about it.....

great info... that gives me a starting point to search for what people say happens when injecting something that contains menthol. you're right tho, it doesnt mean its safe!

 

[down508]

yeah i thought about that... spraying the measly .1ml into something and sucking it back up via cotton.
either way, my concern is still about the menthol causing pain or damage. great points tho! thx for posting!
EDIT: have u tried injecting the subsys specifically? kind of sounds like it... but id like to know how that menthol effected u if u did.

because there is only 100mg of liquid it's unlikely there is more than 10mg of menthol in it. I think using a filter from a newport would introduce just as much menthol. I personally don't think such a small amount of menthol would do any damage, but I'm not a doctor and that's just my opinion.

the propylene glycol is safe to inject, it is a primary ingredient in many "for injection" drugs such as valium, alprazolam, midazolam etc.


and no the menthol is not to stop abuse. it is to mask the flavor of the ingredients making it less unpleasant to take. if they were trying to deter abuse they wouldn't be making fentanyl. there are plenty of other things they could have included, menthol isn't one of them.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

ive yet to try one... from what i read and heard its one shot only. and the button/trigger locks in place afterwards. and they are so paranoid about the fentanyl being in the things after use that they give u a bunch of disposal bags and very specific instructions.

so yeah your right, i need to figure out how to break them open. if i was to IV i could do like the user above said, just spray into a spoon or cap and suck it back up. i might even do that just to get it into my nose, and it would allow me to break it into two doses. what u think about that?

You could definitely do the same thing and then use it by a ROA other than IV. Menthol nasal spray does exist by the way, so small amounts of menthol presumably can't be that bad or painful to put in your nose. I've put menthol in my nostrils intentionally before and find it cooling and soothing, but that wasn't like putting it way up into the nasal passages so I didn't want to assume.

I still think the wisest idea would be to use it sublingually. It's intended and optimized for that ROA and doesn't have the general dangers of IV. I'm going offline for a while

 

[Slum Survivor]

excellent points you guys... im sure that its not too harmful after doing some intense searching and reading. the big help was finding out about the inhalers being injected. IF-and-when i choose to IV subsys ill come back in here and let you guys know how it went.

im most likely going to chill on the IV thought for tonite especially since its going to wear off so much faster that way.

it honestly sounds like someone who was desperate enough COULD do it. but when the BA is around 90% for "up the nose" then whats the point for IV? fentanyl has no rush at all except in near fatal doses from what i read. honestly the only true hard rush ive ever got has been from morphine IV. dia-morph makes me dizzy instead of the burn. just a little tingle in the back of the head, and then the dizzy.

so it seems the IV route doesnt have hardly any advantages unless you were in an extreme amount of pain and in a hopsital setting or something.

again thx for all of your posts. bluelight is a great tool and its because of good folks like you guys. thanks a ton. if u guys want i can let u know how it goes trying to put it in my nose, or sublingually. that way maybe it can discourage IV use if anyone finds this in the future, since it sounds like its not worth it.

 

[Morphling]

Yes, and menthol is supposed to increase the nasal permeability of drugs, it's possible you might even get more than 90% absorption with it in the preparation you have. As far as I can remember, fent nasal spray is either supposed to be released soon or already has been, I'm curious as to the ingredients used in that as well. I'd sure as hell try it that way before sticking it in a vein.

 

[down508]

You could definitely do the same thing and then use it by a ROA other than IV. Menthol nasal spray does exist by the way, so small amounts of menthol presumably can't be that bad or painful to put in your nose. I've put menthol in my nostrils intentionally before and find it cooling and soothing, but that wasn't like putting it way up into the nasal passages so I didn't want to assume.

I still think the wisest idea would be to use it sublingually. It's intended and optimized for that ROA and doesn't have the general dangers of IV. I'm going offline for a while

for the record what you have is sublingual spray, not nasal spray. you spray it under your tongue kind of like those lysterine breath sprays, except under your tongue not over.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

for the record what you have is sublingual spray, not nasal spray. you spray it under your tongue kind of like those lysterine breath sprays, except under your tongue not over.

Did you read my post? I know he has sublingual fentanyl spray. I was saying that menthol nasal spray exists because he asked if using the sublingual spray nasally would hurt because of the menthol in it.

 

[bunge]

The menthol wont bother your nasal passages, its a common ingredient in otc decongestants designed to be administered intra-nasally.

 

[down508]

Did you read my post? I know he has sublingual fentanyl spray. I was saying that menthol nasal spray exists because he asked if using the sublingual spray nasally would hurt because of the menthol in it.

oh yeah I misread your post as saying "menthol nasal does not exist by the way", that threw me off.

 

[Slum Survivor]

lol. well regardless of all the misunderstanding... its a SUBLINGUAL spray. there are nasal sprays available as well. big price difference tho.

i ended up just spraying the stuff as directed. i was afraid to waste it since i didnt know how to exactly use it, or how it worked yet.
It peaked in euphoria and the such at around 20 mins. general effects lasted about 4 hours, i was very suprised by that. i figured maybe 2 tops, but it was somewhat decent.

honestly for me, euforia wise it was like taking around 50 mg hydrocodone orally all at once or maybe 30 mg oxycodone orally, but it didnt last as long as those would have. close, but the oxycodone/hydrocodone would both last a bit longer. analgesia wise or whatever its called the fentanyl does seem to effect my cns different or something. the pain relief is stronger, but strangley different.

Again it was only a 200 mcg one. they go upto 1600mcg(holy $h^t!!)

once you use it the thing locks so u need to be sure you do it correctly what ever you do with it. u try to open it and its most likely going to waste some of it. you would have to find a way to spray it into something properly. it sprays quite strong, and its a wide fine mist. its going to be hard to get that into something with out a little mechanical thinking or whatever. theres a rubber ring holding in the plunger, that plunger being connected to the glass-like container that holds the fluid. once you pull it down it can spill quite easily, and there is only 0.1 ml anyways.
also... HOLY crap! that menthol was very intense, i imagine there must be quite a bit of it in there.

the best thing to try if anyone wants to know my opinion: find a way to spray it into your nose. but it was harder than it sounds(for me), or i would have tried that. hope i helped the next person coming along... i dont think im going to try or recommend IV at all.

 

[type-r0910]

Ok so i was waiting to see someone say they tried to iv it, but i have yet to see anyone online anywhere say anything about iv'ing it. So i decided to take action, and i iv'd a whole 600mcg, and all i did was spray in to a bottle cap and add a little water, and it worked out great, GREAT RUSH, so now if anyone wants to know iv'ing it is great and im not dead

 

[Slum Survivor]

wow i just happened to look back on this, and u happen to post that today!? wierd...

i cant imagine that the menthol would have felt good in your viens tho... screw fentanyl anyways...

thx for letting us know youre not dead, but i still dont condone IV with these things. for the record.

 

[bubbathegump]

From what the pharmaceutical reps claim, Subsys has a 76-81% BA when taken properly (eg sprayed sublingually). The menthol causes an increase in perfusion to the sublingual area, which has only about 100 microns of epithelium before hitting vasculature. This is a huge improvement over Actiq, which has a 50% theoretical BA, half of which is transbuccal and the other half through the upper GI tract from the fentanyl that's swallowed.

IMHO, it's a waste to bother injecting Subsys. You get as close to 100% BA with Subsys as has ever been possible with a fentanyl product before simply using it right, so why bother shooting for the extra 19%, and risk doing so much harm (even if your intent is suicidal)? Take it the right way, take 20% more than you would otherwise need to inject, and you'll have plenty.

That said, getting it into a syringe is easy - spray it into a small (25mL) beaker and then draw it up into the syringe. It is unlikely to be sterile, as with any pill or other PO medication - "pharmaceutical grade" in no way implies sterile.

 

[JayDub]

No one has any experiences using subsys nasally??? I have a steady supply of the 800's and find that they are a lot better than the actiqs and the patches since I have tried all.

My DOC is oxy 30s nasally and/or OP Oc's and when used in combination they give a nice euphoric high and the occasional nod. The trick with the subsys is make sure u hit the button a couple times while it's still in your mouth bc sometimes there's still spray left inside, I made the mistake of rushing and pulled it out to early to have it spray all over my chin��...
After a fatty meal, 80op ��and a spray ��I'm good for 6-8 hrs ����

 

[tacodude]

If you know the difference in bioavailability you can just adjust the dose. This is true for recreational or medical use it just means you should take into account the one minute or so delay of onset....

That being said due to the very aggressive binding nature and short half life (30 min or so) of fentanyl is a terrible choice for pain management except on severe lifelong management. Using a patch or if accessible a sustained release pill would be ideal with the nasal spray for breakthrough pain.

The only patient I met with patches had a nerve pinch affecting their groin making it feel like their testicles were in a constant vice grip. We had a very great conversation at a free food kitchen including taking about abusers.

I'll also add when I first looked into the nasal spray that I read it was scripted on a case by case basis for cancer I believe. Misusing it is damn innapropriete as someone in pain dying of cancer could use that dose the way it is meant to be used to bring comfort to the agony of the pain in their life...