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SIED Moderators: Genetic Freak | Serotonin101
of all test, which is better?
- Thread starter ongos
- Start date
Insurance won't necessarily display meds but it still shows as going to receive treatment of something/Dr visit which could argue suspicion. If er flags alleged drug user there tends to be less care given to the individual based on the bias of the caregiver and usually they'll refrain from giving any narcotic for acute treatment of symptoms unless absolutely necessary. Also when medical insurance companies look into your health records and see that flag, they used to be able to call that a pre existing condition which woukd impact if you could get insurance in the states.
AlmostFamous
Bluelighter
- Joined
- May 28, 2003
- Messages
- 435
The only difference between prescription and pet antibiotics is the packaging.
Here's an example of one I've used in the past. And you can purchase it for $20 online.
could FE (Feed Grade) be consumed by humans as well? I'm assuming yes. The thing is why is the dose as high for fish use? I would think they are tiny enough not to require that much. The whole pill isn't swallowed by the fish is it? It gets in the water?
neon black
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2015
- Messages
- 23
Test and its esters have already been covered, but I'd like to add that pharma test is best, as dosage and consistency from ugl product - though it does have test - can cause problems. So for me, pharma > any type ugl, and as far as esters that depends what you're trying to do, but it's hard to fault enanthate and cypionate 
couldn't fathom a day would cause issue, but if you have ugl product that's got real high BA% i wouldn't leave it in a rig that long (I've read about people who prefilled pins for their whole cycle for convenience, and the high ba reacted over time with the syringe's plastic!)
heh [edit- ongos, i think you'll find a lot of value in steroidplot.com, it'll let you play around with dose/frequency/ester combinations and show you what their release::time profiles look like, it's very very useful IMO if you're trying to decide what you're doing! ]
Voxide
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2010
- Messages
- 1,827
No chance.
Also, there is no better ester, since it all really depends. Personally I don't think you have any business taking any of the esters. Just eat to gain more weight.
I haven't been posting here for a while ongos but I still remember your incredibly pointless and generally asinine threads even three years ago. At one point I remember you were tossing around the idea of using GH for bulking without also using AAS and actually thinking it was a good idea, lol. I'm not trying to get on your case since it does seem like you mean well, but some of the questions you dedicate entire threads to could literally be answered by using 2 minutes of google.
I wish I didn't have to dignify this with a response either, but yes. If you are flagged as a drug seeker it could end up going in your records and a physician will never prescribe you depressants or give you opiates unless you have a gunshot wound. Part of this is for the safety of other patients, because believe it or not, if you're trying to fake a kidney stone to go home with some vicodin, you are interfering with the treatment of patients that actually do need to be seen.
Insurance listing the medications that you have scripted under your name is a step taken against the old phenomenon of doctor shopping, in which you could literally just see a bunch of croakers and get different meds from each of them. It also gives them a little more wiggle room if they should decide to drop you from their plan if you have a condition that stemmed directly as a result of your drug use.
Probably because suspension is faster acting and thus more practical for use by powerlifters and other strength athletes. Not to mention fake natties can easily pin the stuff when they need it and then have it out of their system for the piss test faster than you can say layne norton.
I don't know why you bother posting without doing any reading beforehand, but hey, we can't all be bothered to actually look into information.
Technically speaking you don't have to do anything, but taking these short esters ED or EOD would ensure stable blood levels. Cypionate is not the same and is much longer acting than prop.
Now you're just being ridiculous.
The acne problem has a lot less to do with the standard to which the hormones are made and more to with the actual hormones working in your body. If you're genetically prone to oily skin and acne and you decide to take steroids; you'll get it. Period.
Campus? You're a college kid? It all makes sense now, I guess.
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^^^I think this is the most patience and tolerance I've ever seen from you Vox. You feeling ok? 
very informative post though and nailed all the points needed.
very informative post though and nailed all the points needed.
pharmbiak
Bluelight Crew
Everyone is different and it depends on what your goals are for absoroption rate and bioavailability. The longer esters produce a more stable testosterone level over a longer period of time which means less pinning and less peaks and valleys in T levels. For example: both testosterone cypionate and testosterone enanthate have a half life of approximately 8 days, while testosterone propionate has a half life of a little over a day. The other thing to consider is the concentration of testosterone in the suspension you're receiving. A lot of people complain about test. propionate because not only do they have to pin much more frequently, but they also experience a burning or stinging pain with this ester that doesn't seem to be present in other esters. This is due to the amount of benzy benzoate used in the compound - directly related to the testosterone concentration; for example a test cypoinate suspension of 250mg/mL will require less benzyl benzoate to disolve in the solvent than a test cypionate suspension of 400mg/mL, and indirectly related to the length of the ester backbone that the testosterone is bound to. As a general rule, the propionate ester requires more benzyl benzoate to be soluble in a given solvent than the cypionate or enanthate ester. A high concentration of benzyl benzoate causes soreness and irritation because it is a known irritant. This is similar to adding too much acetic acid to a peptide reconstitution.
Testosterone suspension (testosterone unbound to any ester in water) is commonly used right before working out or right after working out as it immediately (relatively) elevates T levels in the bloodstream - this can be desireable around the time one works out because increased testosterone levels correlate with increased protein synthesis which is what we all know builds muscle. What most don't realize though, is that even when the testosterone suspension is injected, it does not necessarily cause elevated "free" testosterone levels in comparison with taking a long ester testosterone (this is dose dependent) as a good majority of the injected suspension will bind to "something" in the blood (at physiological levels 98% of testosterone is bound to something in the blood: ~65% to Sex Hormone Binding Globulin "SHBG", and ~33% to albumin). This is your plasma concentration or "serum total testosterone". This inevitably increase when one administers exogenous testosterone. However, what is actually important is the level of "free testosterone" - this is what is unbound and bioavailable (what your body can acutally use). With the use of exogenous testosterone this level usually will increase (dose dependent, SHBG level dependent, AR expression dependent, AR affinity dependent...etc.), however, it may not increase as drastically as some may think in response to a testosterone suspension injection pre/post workout when compared alongside the administration of a long ester testosterone over an extended period of time. Again, this is dose dependent - if one injects 5mL of 200mg/mL testosterone suspension (this is hypothetical - please don't do this) then obviously the level of SHBG and albumin will be hard pressed to compete with such a high amount of testosterone in the blood and the free concentration will increase, albeit only for a short period of time (a few studies have reported as little as 24 hours).
Finally, everyone's body reacts differently to these compounds. Keep in mind that your body is constantly trying to acheive/maintain a state of homeostasis. This means that when anything deviates from "normal", your body will do everything it can to compensate and return to "normal". As such, some people react better to maintaining an elevated, yet more constant level of testosterone over a longer period of time while others respond better to sharp increases in horomone levels with quick decreases back to physiological (somewhat depending on dose frequency) levels. Really, it's a matter of the specific individual's metabolism, tolerated deviation from "normal", and genetic profile with respect to AR content and expression.
If anyone is interested and has some time to read through about 60 pages, this article is probably one of the most accurate and informative resources (it is a peer reviewed publication in an academic journal) on testosterone and its derivatives. It also gives a pretty basic yet through description of what happens in the body when it is introduced to exogenous hormones. For anyone that wants more than a "bro-science" explanation, is considering a first cycle, or that don't know a whole lot about how steroids work/what steriods do what, this is your go-to guide.1
1http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19620932
-Pharm
Testosterone suspension (testosterone unbound to any ester in water) is commonly used right before working out or right after working out as it immediately (relatively) elevates T levels in the bloodstream - this can be desireable around the time one works out because increased testosterone levels correlate with increased protein synthesis which is what we all know builds muscle. What most don't realize though, is that even when the testosterone suspension is injected, it does not necessarily cause elevated "free" testosterone levels in comparison with taking a long ester testosterone (this is dose dependent) as a good majority of the injected suspension will bind to "something" in the blood (at physiological levels 98% of testosterone is bound to something in the blood: ~65% to Sex Hormone Binding Globulin "SHBG", and ~33% to albumin). This is your plasma concentration or "serum total testosterone". This inevitably increase when one administers exogenous testosterone. However, what is actually important is the level of "free testosterone" - this is what is unbound and bioavailable (what your body can acutally use). With the use of exogenous testosterone this level usually will increase (dose dependent, SHBG level dependent, AR expression dependent, AR affinity dependent...etc.), however, it may not increase as drastically as some may think in response to a testosterone suspension injection pre/post workout when compared alongside the administration of a long ester testosterone over an extended period of time. Again, this is dose dependent - if one injects 5mL of 200mg/mL testosterone suspension (this is hypothetical - please don't do this) then obviously the level of SHBG and albumin will be hard pressed to compete with such a high amount of testosterone in the blood and the free concentration will increase, albeit only for a short period of time (a few studies have reported as little as 24 hours).
Finally, everyone's body reacts differently to these compounds. Keep in mind that your body is constantly trying to acheive/maintain a state of homeostasis. This means that when anything deviates from "normal", your body will do everything it can to compensate and return to "normal". As such, some people react better to maintaining an elevated, yet more constant level of testosterone over a longer period of time while others respond better to sharp increases in horomone levels with quick decreases back to physiological (somewhat depending on dose frequency) levels. Really, it's a matter of the specific individual's metabolism, tolerated deviation from "normal", and genetic profile with respect to AR content and expression.
If anyone is interested and has some time to read through about 60 pages, this article is probably one of the most accurate and informative resources (it is a peer reviewed publication in an academic journal) on testosterone and its derivatives. It also gives a pretty basic yet through description of what happens in the body when it is introduced to exogenous hormones. For anyone that wants more than a "bro-science" explanation, is considering a first cycle, or that don't know a whole lot about how steroids work/what steriods do what, this is your go-to guide.1
1http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19620932
-Pharm
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^^^why is it prop which has terrible solubility is painful while acetate (even shorter ester, and lighter) is painless? I would have figured that the even shorter acetate ester would require more solvent to dissolve into solution thus yielding more injection pain.
Personal Comment: test prop should be phased out and acetate should take its place as dose/ml can be the same, less pip, more active hormone per ml, and they both should have the same pinning regime.
Personal Comment: test prop should be phased out and acetate should take its place as dose/ml can be the same, less pip, more active hormone per ml, and they both should have the same pinning regime.
pharmbiak
Bluelight Crew
It has a lot to do with the acidity of the base and purity of testosterone as well... I will try to find some more info on this for you (work has been busy lately, my apologies) - also my orgainic chemistry is a little bit rusty. haha
-Pharm
-Pharm
I'm unable to view the full paper.... Sorry..!!
pharmbiak
Bluelight Crew
Sorry about that... I always forget I have access to a bunch of journals that most don't through the university server... my fault.
If there's a way to attach a PDF I have it downloaded and can post it up.
Here is another article (only about 26 pages or so) that is very similar but a little more concise:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...lied+modifications+in+the+steroidal+structure
Let me know if you can't access this one either and if there's a way to post the PDF up to SD or PM me and I'll see if we can work something out so that I can get these to you... they're actually pretty great reads.
GrymReefer
Bluelight Crew
That one was also just abstract sadly.
pharmbiak
Bluelight Crew
Well guys... I don't know how to get the info to you.
This is the link to the actual PDF rather than the link to PubMed... if this doesn't work I'm not sure how to get you guys the PDF.
http://ac.els-cdn.com/S0039128X0800...t=1435245385_90be376b84cd7fcd3cf86bceef6802f1
The max attachment size is 512kb and these are about 1mb each. I will keep trying to figure out a solution, until then the only thing I can recommend is maybe to try the title of the article in google scholar and see if there's a free PDF available.
This is the link to the actual PDF rather than the link to PubMed... if this doesn't work I'm not sure how to get you guys the PDF.
http://ac.els-cdn.com/S0039128X0800...t=1435245385_90be376b84cd7fcd3cf86bceef6802f1
The max attachment size is 512kb and these are about 1mb each. I will keep trying to figure out a solution, until then the only thing I can recommend is maybe to try the title of the article in google scholar and see if there's a free PDF available.
GrymReefer
Bluelight Crew
The best bet would be using Dropbox. It is a free file sharing service. I believe you get up to 2-3GB free before a membership is required. No limit on downloading.
Either way thanks for taking the time to try again!
Either way thanks for taking the time to try again!
Unfortunately I can't post the PDF up as it's watermarked with my university, so I could get suspended for sharing it. And if I copy and paste HTML it's going to be extremely long and won't have the diagrams, which I think you guys would appreciate. Send me a PM if you still want it and I'll see what I can do.
NeighborMike
Bluelighter
this place isnt bad for text documents
paste2.org/
paste2.org/