ODing when smoking heroin

[the_ketaman]

^^Ok if you say so.

 

[ifonly]

I trust haribo's word more than most any other bluelighter. He isn't speculating (like half the people in here), he has done research. I know thats hard to comprehend for some people, but it means he actually sought out answers to this question instead of just making a random guess, with no facts to back it up.

schimpo, i absolutely agree with your above statement. what you described there makes up about 95% of all internet posts, ime.

however. while i trust haribo just as much as you do, his research seems to be limited to the western world, with street dope etc.

this is where you can get nitpicky. there would be hardly any cases of heroin OD because in the US/UK/AUS the heroin is heavily stepped on, which means you have to smoke more.

there would not be many cases in aphganistan or other countries close to the source either, because its likely that the people who do heroin there are used to the potency.

however, if the question is simply "can you die from smoking heroin", then i sincerely believe that it is irresponsible to tell people that you cant, or that its damn near impossible. because hypothetically, if you loaded a foil up with a solid quarter gram (or whatever) of 80+% heroin, and gave it to someone who knew how to smoke it properly, and they simply kept vaporising and inhaling without stopping until they couldnt, i think they could very likely die, if their tolerance was low enough.

Now, you're right - i have no facts and not as much experience as others, but it seems illogical to think otherwise for me. I think it is just the fact of sensitivity/lack of tolerance - i have personally witnessed girls who have felt "way too high" off 150mg of codeine. which is about 15mg of morphine, or say 7mg of diacetylmorphine. (roughly?)

now i dont know exactly how much heroin you can vaporise in a 30second inhale, but i would assume that, if done right, it could easily be up to 100mg. so to me, if roughly 10mg of pure H can make someone uncomfortably high, with much neusea, then wouldnt TEN TIMES that dose be enough to kill them?

it seems very logical to me. then again i dont know as much as most other people here, so i may be wrong. i like to think that im not ignorant enough to stay stubborn on a topic with which i have no proof, so i would love you to explain how my logic is flawed. but until then, im going with what makes sense.

 

[sixpartseven]

Its definitely possible, although EXTREMELY unlikely. The circumstances would have to be just right for it to happen.

 

[danalprazolam]

Wow i'm no h user. Oxy here. But I was talking to somone and they were telling me how there friend smoked H and ended up dieing. So it's possible.

 

[johanneschimpo]

^ People lie.
99% chance its a lie, and if it wasn't, he was already on way too many drugs/drunk and that was the last straw.

Don't believe everything that you breathe.

 

[smokeymcpot42088]

For all practical purposes no.

Fent cut dope exists and is out there though, and that'd be a new, much different question. So regardless, ALWAYS be careful smoking H.

hmm, I've never smoked H so excuse my ignorance, but what if you stuck a gram of pure H into a volcano vaporizor bag and just slammed it all into your lungs....Idk if a volcano would even work for H but seems like you can adjust the temperature you should be able to yield active smoke.

 

[arcarsenal]

I really wish the MODs would close this thread.

Its fucking dangerous.

I get what people are saying, its unlikely that someone will OD from smoking H. It is clearly the best ROA if one is considering harm reduction.

But, to say its impossible is insane. Its absolutely indefensible. Of COURSE you CAN OD. It may not be likely. You may have researched and demonstrated that it is rare to virtually unheard of.

But it is absolutely NOT impossible.

And to phrase it like that, "you CANNOT OD from smoking H," is utterly irresponsbile. And dangerous.

I don't want to be the overbearing paternal type, but some dumb kid with not tolerance is going to find a hot load of dope, smoke it in one go KNOWING that he won't OD, and he's going to fuck himself up.

Stop being so self-righteous declaring that it is impossbile. Of course its possible. Just not likely.

MODs, in the name of harm-reduction and not being an asshole trying to defend one's junkie prowess, close this thread.

 

[johanneschimpo]

I'll fly to the moon before I OD by smoking heroin. I'll bring you some moonrocks to prove it.

If another mod wants to close this, they can, but I don't see a reason to. Its not that people are really saying (or meaning) "can" and "cannot"... its more like "possible" and "very unlikely.'

Yes it is dangerous to speak in absolutes, but saying its "unlikely" is true, and that won't promote any sane person to "try" to overdose thinking they are immune.

This is one of the few threads in OD with actual discussion going on, rather than "what do you like more: xanax or klonopin" - so it would sadden me to close it.

 

[ifonly]

i agree with schimpos above post - althou, there are multiple posts in this thread that actually do speak in absoluteles, eg "no u cannot die from ODing"

i also agree with arcarsenel, except for the closing thread bit. this thread is indeed a good discussion.

in the spirit of continuing the discussion now that the main point has been answered, i have a question for those who have smoked H before:

how much can you generally smoke in one action/breath?
how long does it usually take to hit you?
what factors effect the rate of burning? can you involve additives to aid combustion?

 

[johanneschimpo]

^ (with tar: )
1. maybe .01g... so 10mg (then consider purity, its not 10mg diacetylmorphine), and thats a big hit. a "novice" couldn't take that.
2. you feel it withinin seconds.
3. I've had some "kinds" that burned slightly differently, but in the end it always the same rate of vaporization/burning. I don't think anything could be done to change the rate of combustion... its fast as it is.

 

[mongman]

Possible but Improbable

OK, Let just do some simple maths here:

The LD50 for an Opiate naive person is 50mg ref

The amount an individual can smoke in one to two inhalations is around 200 mg
[This is personal experience with relatively pure substances, almost pure H heats up then vaporises in a big puff instantly. Anyone familiar with Chemistry should be capable of confirming this, pure substances should vaporise within a very specific temperature range]

200 mg / 50 mg = 4 x LD50 !

So clearly even if you factor in bio. availability and loss due to heat the amount someone can inhale is still well above the LD50 for the substance. Hence it IS possible to Over Dose from smoking diacetylmorphine. However these circumstances required for this to occur are extremely unlikely.

I have never heard of it happening and probably never will, but if you do the maths it is possible to inhale enough vapour in one (or two) breaths to kill an opiate naive person.

In addition:
Depending on how you look at it death from suffocation on vomit caused by the bodies reaction to Heroin could be considered OD'ing. I mean when you stop breathing due to a reaction to Heroin do we call that suffocation or Heroin OD?

Surely the definition of Over Dose is any dose of a substance which initiates adverse effects from the body.
Wouldn't death by over dose include death caused by any adverse effects including suffocation on vomit caused by the individual being unresponsive due to excessive amounts of heroin?

 

[haribo1]

All I would say is SHOW me an example of diamorphine causing death alone. Not mixed with alcohol, downers or such. JUST diamorphine. I can't see anyone effectivly smoking 200mg of PURE material in a single breath. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I spent a lot of time researching. You can sure pass out on smoked diamorphine. If you died inhaling vomit then the diamorphine is not the direct cause. It's asphyxiation. If you mix it with hundreds of milligrams of a benzo or lots of alcohol then you can die.

The fact remains that diamorphine itself, when smoked, is relativly safe.

Please, someone point me to an article stating that someone died purely of smoking of diamorphine.

I'm always happy to learn.

Oh, and some people are allergic. In this case, the dosage itself is not the key factor but the anafalactic shock (did I spell that right).

 

[thugpassion]

The fact remains that diamorphine itself, when smoked, is relativly safe.

Thats it end of story.

 

[ifonly]

diacteylmorphine is pretty benign to human tissue...if you want to be pedantic then no heroin OD is actually an OD, its just death due to severe respiratory depression. the heroin levels arent actually toxic.

by this logic, any death that occurs due to heroin and heroin only, without outside factors such as cars/coffe tables, ( so things like choking on vomit, respiratory depression) is considered a heroin OD.

and as mongman has stated, its more then possible. however it does require no tolerance + great dope + good smoking skills, which is a very unlikely combination. (the latter 2 come with experience generally)

so, as has already been established some time ago; smoking heroin can definately kill you. using any definates is irresponsible. however, for all intents and purposes, its highly fuckin unlikely.

anyway, this is nothing new. a conclusion has already been made; nothing on this page is new info rly (apart from the actual figures)