NTI's Christian Theology Thread

[Shrooms00087]

I would think the importance of 'The Word' is in its interpretation. You see priests to guide your thoughts about what you are reading and how to apply it. Christianity is basically Stoicism in application. God is just the dialectic between your imagination and higher purpose. To me, the most important part of Christianity is actually when God becomes human and suffers from the same afflictions Man would. He blunders, curses trees, but remains the perfect Stoic.

 

[methamaniac]

Darwinism is a religion and it is taken solely on faith. There is NO evidence for it, when it comes down to it. It is just eloquently worded smoke and mirrors. It is what caused the Holocaust, as well as what caused the legalization of the sacrifice of children to idols (money, social status, pride, vanity etc etc - all idols that people worship).

It makes it easier to do/be evil when you think there are no consequences for your actions.
If you think you're just another animal doing what animals do.
As far as the holocaust, it can certainly be argued
(I believe correctly) Darwin's theory and thoughts on favored races influenced Hitler and his Nazi counterparts. Darwin was wrong about so many things. It's really sad he is so celebrated amongst many. It's also sad how so many intelligent people just can't let go of his wrong ideas.
Studies in genetics/epigenetics has killed Darwinism/Neo. It's absurb to think that gradualism could explain this process :



Anyone like to take a stab at how tiny accumulated random mutations could be responsible for this?
Did the chrysalis/cocoon evolve in tiny steps, or was it a gradual process? Logic dictates that you can't have a quarter/half formed cocoon/chrysalis.
Simple logic/reasoning/common sense should make it easy to deduce, it's an all or nothing situation. No fully formed cocoon.....
no butterfly/reproduction.
This story ends, and there is
no even point getting into how the caterpillar dissolves itself into a 'chemical soup' ; and then forms a completely new organism with new morphological features
( complete with new brain/central nervous system).
It's just willful ignorance (for lack of better word)
to not see this isn't a random process.
But I digress......
Darwin being wrong doesn't mean the bible or Christian God is true. I realize this. IMO it just means we are not here by accident.
What one does with that information is up to them.

 

[swilow]

It makes it easier to do/be evil when you think there are no consequences for your actions.

The "without god there would be no morality" argument. God is not a requirement for right/wrong. We have heaps of moral ideas that are found nowhere in the Christian bible. We also disregard a lot of the morality in the Christian bible because its "outdated". A timeless, eternal god would make law for all time, not for a tiny culture existing on a tiny part of a tiny world for the blink of an eye. This doesn't appear to be the case, therefore it would seem that god isn't essential to right/wrong; time/place/culture are moreso. Therefore, we can look to history to say that removoing god from the moral picture will cause no damage because he has never been a major part of it.

No, the reason that people accept Darwinism has nothing to do with morality. It is accepted because of the overwhelming body of evidence supporting it.

As far as the holocaust, it can certainly be argued
(I believe correctly) Darwin's theory and thoughts on favored races influenced Hitler and his Nazi counterparts

.

Drawing that long bow might also find jesus responsible for all sorts of shit. After all, one could argue that the delusions promoted by Christianity meant that the physical truth of life as evidenced by Darwinism has actually been traumatic to our psychological life. The results of that could be desperate men trying to grasp immortality through thousand year empires.

I wonder why intelligent designers cannot entertain the idea that god is working his wonder of creation through the mutagenic evolutionary process.

 

[NOtoInvega]

Crowley asked himself that same question socko, and subsequently decided to publish the inner workings of the mystery schools.... Op, being a fallen angel myself, let me just assure you that the power of your christ exerts no control over me. The entities you are likely encountering are your own thoughtforms, and so would play along with delusional christian belief system. p.s Lucifer is not the imaginary being satan....The angels are here to help, Hail Lucifer.

Fallen angels can not manifest in physical bodies, because any of them who leave their proper abode will be bound up in the darkness until the day of judgment. That's what happened to the last ones who did, anyways. If you really are a demon, you are in fact subjected to me now and there is nothing you can do about it. I doubt this is the case, though.

You are doing the will of the devil and everything you say is a lie. Demons are now subjected to me, although for a long time they were not. The Word of God is true. This is not all in my mind. I will not be confused and I will not be made to fear.

I'm commanding the devils who are controlling your thoughts to leave you when you read this in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, who has given me authority over them. Your fear and confusion will dissipate for a while, although they will return (and they will bring more with them). Take this time to read the Gospel of John. If you do not confess with your mouth and believe with your heart that Jesus is God's Son and has raised from the dead by the time they return, you will be in a worse situation than you were before I helped you.

The ones who you are serving are destined for the eternal fire. Any of them who disobey me will be dealt with by the one who has given me my power and authority. This decision was made by the Son of Man and will not be overturned. I have given you a window of opportunity. Use it.

 

[NOtoInvega]

I would think the importance of 'The Word' is in its interpretation. You see priests to guide your thoughts about what you are reading and how to apply it. Christianity is basically Stoicism in application. God is just the dialectic between your imagination and higher purpose. To me, the most important part of Christianity is actually when God becomes human and suffers from the same afflictions Man would. He blunders, curses trees, but remains the perfect Stoic.

Roman Catholic priests are false apostles. They are not God's apostles, as the RC Church claims. With the utmost sincerity, I assure you that no apostle of God has ever done what many of those priests have done. It never happened.

I'm not sure what you are saying. The Son of Man was never under a curse. He chose to suffer for our sins of His own accord. Had He asked the Father to send angels to His rescue, the Father would have. However, He came to do the will of our Father, and the Father's will was for the Son to take the cup of wrath that would have been ours in order to save us who were born in bondage to sin. Thanks to His perfect obedience and His sacrifice, I will live with Him forever and worship Him, in His perfect Love and all His glory, for all of eternity. Hope to see you there!

 

[swilow]

^You could at least do people the courtesy of actually reading and responding to what they write. Shrooms did not mention Catholicism in that post, nor did he say that Jesus was cursed. When you just reel of ad libs and non-sequitirs, it just seems like you have nothing of substance to say and seek to therefore simply confound the reader.

I'm commanding the devils who are controlling your thoughts to leave you when you read this in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, who has given me authority over them

Or you could be simply thinking really really hard about something and that's it.

I gotta say, and I really don't wish to, but I do wonder if you are okay at the moment. I see a lot of pretty typical symptoms of psychosis in what and how you are presenting yourself as the centre of this most momentous battle, coupled with your username, and I guess you could understand my pondering. I have had psychosis (drug/drug-withdrawal induced) and it is uncanny in how it manifests so similarly in different people. I don't think it needs to discount the ideas you bring up, but it really seems to be colouring the way you present them, and I also therefore am concerned about how you are off the computer. I hope you are safe and with people who are gentle. If I am wrong, I apologise most sincerely. I'm trying to show care and compassion though, so I think you will understand... Until this is established one way or the other, this shouldn't perhaps continue.

 

[NOtoInvega]

^You could at least do people the courtesy of actually reading and responding to what they write. Shrooms did not mention Catholicism in that post, nor did he say that Jesus was cursed. When you just reel of ad libs and non-sequitirs, it just seems like you have nothing of substance to say and seek to therefore simply confound the reader.



Or you could be simply thinking really really hard about something and that's it.

I gotta say, and I really don't wish to, but I do wonder if you are okay at the moment. I see a lot of pretty typical symptoms of psychosis in what and how you are presenting yourself as the centre of this most momentous battle, coupled with your username, and I guess you could understand my pondering. I have had psychosis (drug/drug-withdrawal induced) and it is uncanny in how it manifests so similarly in different people. I don't think it needs to discount the ideas you bring up, but it really seems to be colouring the way you present them, and I also therefore am concerned about how you are off the computer. I hope you are safe and with people who are gentle.

I am not the center of this battle. I am just a servant of Christ. Most of the fighting is between God's Holy angels and the fallen ones.

He mentioned priests which implies Roman Catholic, and he mentioned curses. I couldn't understand what he meant though.

I will ask my Master to open your eyes. It is good that you care about me. I care about you too. Jesus Christ has personally told me that I am His friend, so when I ask Him to open your eyes and bless you - I am asking my best friend. Good things are in store for you!

And don't worry about the confusion/fear that lead you to assume too much and err as a result. I have also erred, much worse than you, as a result of assuming too much. I actually sinned against God's Holy Angel. I didn't believe it was really His angel. I thought it was people running psy-ops. I would love it if you would pray for me! I won't get into why I thought that - they were attacking me psychologically at the same time demons were attacking me which lead to me losing a fight I wouldn't have lost otherwise. That is how I got possessed and ended up in the psych ward one time. I hope they are still watching me, come to Christ, and make amends with me. However, people like them never feel remorse and the only way they will make amends with me is if my Master saves them.

Speaking of confusion and fear, I am commanding any spirits of confusion and fear who are around you to leave you and never return in the name of my Lord Jesus Christ. I command you to leave as this person is reading this.

If any of them were messing with you (and it appears that they were), they just left and you will be at peace now.

I will ask my King to open your eyes and bless you. Good things are in store for you!

 

[HypGnosis]

Fallen angels can not manifest in physical bodies, because any of them who leave their proper abode will be bound up in the darkness until the day of judgment. That's what happened to the last ones who did, anyways. If you really are a demon, you are in fact subjected to me now and there is nothing you can do about it. I doubt this is the case, though.

You are doing the will of the devil and everything you say is a lie. Demons are now subjected to me, although for a long time they were not. The Word of God is true. This is not all in my mind. I will not be confused and I will not be made to fear.

I'm commanding the devils who are controlling your thoughts to leave you when you read this in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, who has given me authority over them. Your fear and confusion will dissipate for a while, although they will return (and they will bring more with them). Take this time to read the Gospel of John. If you do not confess with your mouth and believe with your heart that Jesus is God's Son and has raised from the dead by the time they return, you will be in a worse situation than you were before I helped you.

The ones who you are serving are destined for the eternal fire. Any of them who disobey me will be dealt with by the one who has given me my power and authority. This decision was made by the Son of Man and will not be overturned. I have given you a window of opportunity. Use it.

lol, dude, just.....i dont know....anyway, the fallen angels do and are manifest physically, it says so in your own bible, crudely paraphrased "the fallen saw the daughters of man were fit and shagged them" fallen angels are not demons, the two are completely different... I appreciate your prayers and know that i too am praying for you. I pray that Lucifer comes to you and brings you the light you so clearly need hail Lucifer

 

[NOtoInvega]

lol, dude, just.....i dont know....anyway, the fallen angels do and are manifest physically, it says so in your own bible, crudely paraphrased "the fallen saw the daughters of man were fit and shagged them" fallen angels are not demons, the two are completely different... I appreciate your prayers and know that i too am praying for you. I pray that Lucifer comes to you and brings you the light you so clearly need

hail Lucifer

…5Now I desire to remind you, though you know all things once for all, that the Lord, after saving a people out of the land of Egypt, subsequently destroyed those who did not believe. 6And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day, 7just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire. 8Yet in the same way these men, also by dreaming, defile the flesh, and reject authority, and revile angelic majesties. 9But Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him a railing judgment, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!"…

Those are the ones who are bound. They don't manifest physically anymore because they know they will be bound if they do. There is a chance they will again do this soon, but it hasn't started happening (if it had there would be nephilim).

Lucifer is my enemy. Why do you persist in your error? Lucifer wants YOU in the eternal fire. Christ can save you and set you free. Christ is very merciful. The eternal fire is real and it has been prepared for the devil and his angels. It was not prepared for you. Satan does not rule in the Lake of Fire. The eternal fire is where he will spending eternity. This is all real. Heaven is real. Christ really died for my sins and rescued me from my captors - the ones who I have been at war with and who wanted to see me in the eternal fire. Christ is VERY merciful. He will forgive you! Seek Him!


To the ones who said I "blasphemed the immortal one." I know you are human. Satan and his angels would not say something like that. They know the Word, and it is clear that you do not. They are much better than you at what you do. If you make amends with me, I will pray for you. But you have to make amends with me IN PERSON, with my 4-8 months of disability taken into account.

There is a reason I know the difference between you and demons. Right when you said that, I told you that I know you are human. I have been at war with them for quite a few years now. You are just their pawns, as it stands. You do the will of your father. I know how demons operate and when you used the V2K to say that to me, I knew that you were just a human. The Son of Man has given me authority over the unclean spirits you serve and imitate with technology. If you come to me, in person, and make amends with me, I will cast the unclean spirits out of you and pray for you. You are always confused. You are always afraid. That is why you seek control. I can help you. They are watching you right now, as you watch me, and they are sentient. They are aware of my plan to free you. You will be confused. You will be afraid. You will hear lies in your thoughts. They don't want you to come to me, because they know I will cast them out of you and lead you to Christ. If that happens, you won't go in the eternal fire because Christ is VERY merciful!

The Truth Will Make You Free

31So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; 32and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.” 33They answered Him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never yet been enslaved to anyone; how is it that You say, ‘You will become free’?” 34Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin. 35“The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever. 36“So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed. 37“I know that you are Abraham’s descendants; yet you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you. 38“I speak the things which I have seen with My Father; therefore you also do the things which you heard from your father.”
39They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus said to them, “If you are Abraham’s children, do the deeds of Abraham. 40“But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do. 41“You are doing the deeds of your father.” They said to Him, “We were not born of fornication; we have one Father: God.” 42Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me. 43“Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word. 44“You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45“But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me. 46“Which one of you convicts Me of sin? If I speak truth, why do you not believe Me? 47“He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God.”
48The Jews answered and said to Him, “Do we not say rightly that You are a Samaritan and have a demon?” 49Jesus answered, “I do not have a demon; but I honor My Father, and you dishonor Me. 50“But I do not seek My glory; there is One who seeks and judges. 51“Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he will never see death.” 52The Jews said to Him, “Now we know that You have a demon. Abraham died, and the prophets also; and You say, ‘If anyone keeps My word, he will never taste of death.’ 53“Surely You are not greater than our father Abraham, who died? The prophets died too; whom do You make Yourself out to be?” 54Jesus answered, “If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing; it is My Father who glorifies Me, of whom you say, ‘He is our God’; 55and you have not come to know Him, but I know Him; and if I say that I do not know Him, I will be a liar like you, but I do know Him and keep His word. 56“Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.” 57So the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?” 58Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.” 59Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him, but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple.

 

[HypGnosis]

The ones who you are serving are destined for the eternal fire. Any of them who disobey me will be dealt with by the one who has given me my power and authority. This decision was made by the Son of Man and will not be overturned. I have given you a window of opportunity. Use it.

lol, dude, just.....i dont know....anyway, the fallen angels do and are manifest physically, it says so in your own bible, crudely paraphrased "the fallen saw the daughters of man were fit and shagged them" fallen angels are not demons, the two are completely different... I appreciate your prayers and know that i too am praying for you. I pray that Lucifer comes to you and brings you the light you so clearly need hail Lucifer

 

[methamaniac]

The "without god there would be no morality" argument. God is not a requirement for right/wrong.

I have a thread on this. I will bump it if you wish to discuss in depth. Let me ask you one question tho,
do you believe good and evil exist?

We have heaps of moral ideas that are found nowhere in the Christian bible.

One can have any "idea" on morals that they wish. Don't see the correlation. Are you saying there is a such thing as a moral absolute?

We also disregard a lot of the morality in the Christian bible because its "outdated".

Yes, Jesus fullfilled/satisfied the old testament law, and a new covenant was made.

A timeless, eternal god would make law for all time, not for a tiny culture existing on a tiny part of a tiny world for the blink of an eye.

How do you know what a timeless supreme God would/wouldn't do?

A timeless, eternal god would make law for all time, not for a tiny culture existing on a tiny part of a tiny world for the blink of an eye.
This doesn't appear to be the case, therefore it would seem that god isn't essential to right/wrong; time/place/culture are moreso. Therefore, we can look to history to say that removoing god from the moral picture will cause no damage because he has never been a major part of it.

You assumed your assumption is correct, and then made a positive claim based on the fact your assumption is correct.
Do you know what they call this fallacy?

No, the reason that people accept Darwinism has nothing to do with morality. It is accepted because of the overwhelming body of evidence supporting it.

I didn't say "people accept Darwinism" because of
"morality". It's accepted (in most part) because of his assumptions drew from his work in observing adaptation (which nobody denies happens btw) within species. This is what the "overwhelming evidence supports", not that mutations add new specified information to the genome resulting in new complex parts/structures/features/systems. The "overwhelming evidence" shows mutations (when expressed) basically always cause disease, deformity, or death. There is still no mechanism known that can add new specified information to genome.

Drawing that long bow might also find jesus responsible for all sorts of shit. After all, one could argue that the delusions promoted by Christianity meant that the physical truth of life as evidenced by Darwinism has actually been traumatic to our psychological life. The results of that could be desperate men trying to grasp immortality through thousand year empires.

Darwin was a racist and believed certain races were superior to others because they were "more evolved". Hitler, and his like, killed millions in big part to his wrong idea (or do you think his idea was right?)
Nobody can justify killing anyone according to Jesus' teachings. Your analogy between Darwin and Jesus is a 100% fail
You would need to argue why the teachings of Jesus were wrong (and potentially harmful to mankind) to even begin that analogy/argument.

wonder why intelligent designers cannot entertain the idea that god is working his wonder of creation through the mutagenic evolutionary process.

Could be, but one thing is for sure......process isn't random.
I basically proved with above example.
( Do you disagree? If so, why?)

 

[socko]

I......
Studies in genetics/epigenetics has killed Darwinism/Neo. It's absurb to think that gradualism could explain this process :


Anyone like to take a stab at how tiny accumulated random mutations could be responsible for this?
Did the chrysalis/cocoon evolve in tiny steps, or was it a gradual process? Logic dictates that you can't have a quarter/half formed cocoon/chrysalis.
Simple logic/reasoning/common sense should make it easy to deduce, it's an all or nothing situation. No fully formed cocoon.....
no butterfly/reproduction.
This story ends, and there is
no even point getting into how the caterpillar dissolves itself into a 'chemical soup' ; and then forms a completely new organism with new morphological features
( complete with new brain/central nervous system).
It's just willful ignorance (for lack of better word)
to not see this isn't a random process.
But I digress......

Until the study of molecular evolution, it was easier to have hope for a hidden "guided evolution," a version of Intelligent Design. The science of Molecular Evolution uses computationally intense computer algorhythms to model this kind of thing. It's way beyond Darwin's observations, and it explains the existence of many of these impossibly complex biological structures and processes through nothing but random mutations over a scale of around 1 billion years (the Pre Cambrian era).

 

[methamaniac]

Until the study of molecular evolution, it was easier to have hope for a hidden "guided evolution," a version of Intelligent Design. The science of Molecular Evolution uses computationally intense computer algorhythms to model this kind of thing. It's way beyond Darwin's observations, and it explains the existence of many of these impossibly complex biological structures and processes through nothing but random mutations over a scale of around 1 billion years (the Pre Cambrian era).

lulz.... there is no genetic algorithm that can explain the example I gave based on randomness. And btw, genetic algorithms are NO where NEAR mimicking a random process.

The outcome with a genetic algorithms is ‘pre-ordained’ (‘formal’). Evolution is by definition purposeless, so no computer program that has a pre-determined goal can simulate it—period. This is most obviously true of Dawkins’ ‘weasel’ program, where the selection of each letter sequence is determined entirely on its match with the pre-programmed goal sequence ( a key point) Genetic algorithms are not valid simulations of evolution because of this fundamental problem and this has been acknowledged.
Perhaps if the programmer could come up with a program that allowed any random change to happen and then measured the survivability of the ‘organisms’, it might be getting closer to what evolution is supposed to do!
Of course that is impossible (as is evolution)
GA's do not solve/sidestep the problem of irreducible complex parts/systems in reality.
The chicken and egg conumdrums remain.

p.s Out of curiosity, do you think the chrysalis evolved all at once or in tiny gradual steps?
Pretty straightforward question to think about.

 

[socko]

lulz.... there is no genetic algorithm that can explain the example I gave based on randomness. And btw, genetic algorithms are NO where NEAR mimicking a random process.

The outcome with a genetic algorithms is ‘pre-ordained’ (‘formal’). Evolution is by definition purposeless, so no computer program that has a pre-determined goal can simulate it—period. This is most obviously true of Dawkins’ ‘weasel’ program, where the selection of each letter sequence is determined entirely on its match with the pre-programmed goal sequence ( a key point) Genetic algorithms are not valid simulations of evolution because of this fundamental problem and this has been acknowledged.

Some lines of research using algorithms have provided evidence that over a period of hundreds of millions of years, accumulated random mutations can account for some of the diversity we see in nature. They key finding was that a lot can happen over in that amount of time.
I agree that having a predetermined goal does not simulate evolution which is, by definition, random. What's the Dawkin's weasel program?

Perhaps if the programmer could come up with a program that allowed any random change to happen and then measured the survivability of the ‘organisms’, it might be getting closer to what evolution is supposed to do!
Of course that is impossible (as is evolution)
GA's do not solve/sidestep the problem of irreducible complex parts/systems in reality.
The chicken and egg conumdrums remain.

p.s Out of curiosity, do you think the chrysalis evolved all at once or in tiny gradual steps?
Pretty straightforward question to think about.

Interesting question - if a chrysalis came about in gradual steps, what would they have been? Was there ever a half a chrysalis or a partial chrsalis that evolved into a full chrysalis we see today? Is there anything in nature that resembles that? How about fossil records? Insects with half a chrysalis preserved in amber? It doesn't make sense to me either.
The human eye is another example. If Darwin knew how complex it was, he probably never would have published his theory of evolution.

 

[NOtoInvega]

Evolution is one of those things that is blatantly a Satanic lie. It is only even remotely believable if you have a bias against God. It is literally a theory that teaches we evolved from germs. Go look at the stars at night. God did that.

Evolution is a lie from Satan, used to undermine people's faith (disarm them). It is pathetic that children are forced to learn it.

A favorable mutation has never been observed in a species (with regards to spreading through the species). The only evidence used is THE RESULT OF THE LAW OF ENTROPY (THE FALL, DEATH AND DECAY). There is no other evidence.

It is all smoke and mirrors. Paleontological table - fossil record - radiometric dating = circular logic. The numbers are pulled out of thin air and ALL of the samples that do not match up with preconceived notions of evolution are literally thrown out. Dinosaurs lived with people. They are described in the Bible and drawings of them are found all throughout the world.

The only "evidence" of evolution is the common characteristics of different species (ADAPTATION IS NOT EVOLUTION). Did the plane evolve from the motorcycle and did the motorcycle evolve from the car? No. They were created by the same creators to function in the same environment. Evolution is a case of people wanting to believe something SO bad that they do, for absolutely NO reason. The Bible has prophecy as proof it is God's Word. Evolution has 0.

BTW, ur trick with the phone (U KNOW WHO U ARE) was pointless. Come see me! Get real. U didn't evolve from a germ and God, the Eternal God, is listening and watching. Ur choice. And no, you don't know what I am doing. If you did, you would already be driving to my house. If you want me to cast them out of you, come make amends with me. They were already there (I didn't do that) - the Lord opened your ears. Demons prefer not to reveal themselves (that way they can make you think that what they say is what you thought). If you "come get me" as you say, no one will be left to cast the demons out of you. This is not some spy game. I don't use V2K technology on people. I can tell the difference between you and them. And btw, don't get too angry. You do the same thing! They have been with u the whole time, helping you do THEIR will. They want you in the eternal fire. I want to see you in Heaven. Come see me. BTW, well done disinformation thread "schizophrenia technologically designed." You are as clever as a serpent. You won't find anyone else who really can cast out demons. Try if you want to. Until you come see me, I can't help you!

 

[methamaniac]

Some lines of research using algorithms have provided evidence that over a period of hundreds of millions of years, accumulated random mutations can account for some of the diversity we see in nature. They key finding was that a lot can happen over in that amount of time.

GA's I'm aware of usually use a high mutation rate, small genome, and ignore generational time ( as well as multiple coding genes),
and as far as I know always exclude extinction. Many other real world factors are ignored.
In short, I'm saying if you control the parameters you can get any outcome you desire. Which is what Dawkin's weasel program does.

I agree that having a predetermined goal does not simulate evolution which is, by definition, random. What's the Dawkin's weasel program?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weasel_program

Interesting question - if a chrysalis came about in gradual steps, what would they have been?

lol That's what I'm saying/asking, dude.

Was there ever a half a chrysalis or a partial chrsalis that evolved into a full chrysalis we see today? Is there anything in nature that resembles that? How about fossil records? Insects with half a chrysalis preserved in amber? It doesn't make sense to me either.

How can you have a half formed chrysalis?
It's an all or nothing thing- period!
Nothing in fossil record shows a half-formed chrysalis, and the amberized fossils of butterflies that I am aware are pretty much identical to what we have today. Basically no change in 50-60 million years.
Odd, uh? Good ole evolutionary status ?

The human eye is another example.

yep,
this one baffled Darwin and been a thorn in side of Darwinists every since.







Man, I could give you hundreds of examples like this.

If Darwin knew how complex it was, he probably never would have published his theory of evolution.

Oh, he knew............

Quote:
From the Origin of Species, CHAPTER VI--DIFFICULTIES OF THE THEORY

"Organs of extreme Perfection and Complication. To suppose that the eye with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree."

 

[swilow]

I have a thread on this. I will bump it if you wish to discuss in depth. Let me ask you one question tho,
do you believe good and evil exist?

No, in fact, I don't. Not outside the human sphere. I don't think these qualities exist objectively anywhere. They literally came into the world with humans.

One can have any "idea" on morals that they wish. Don't see the correlation. Are you saying there is a such thing as a moral absolute?

No, I was saying that we already have some morality that doesn't appear anywhere in the Christian bible, therefore I think god is not the only source of morals.

How do you know what a timeless supreme God would/wouldn't do?

Well, that's just it; I don't. I can only guess and make some assumptions about what I would imagine a timeless being would do. As you might be aware, I have no real world examples to draw from here. Because god is so stubbornly absent and unwilling to reveal himself, I can't be blamed if I am left to make the same assumptions that anyone who has ever drawn a conclusion from Christianity has.

You assumed your assumption is correct, and then made a positive claim based on the fact your assumption is correct.
Do you know what they call this fallacy?

No idea. We are discussing a topic for which no objectivity exists. Everything we talk about when it comes to Christian theology is an assumption. If you wish me to stop making them, please go back 6000-7000 years and proof read the bible.

Either way; my point is that gods law (or ethics) has changed over time, which runs counter to the idea of timelessness and omniscience. Given that his law has changed dramatically, and aspects of it are now directly ignored (killing witches for example), I feel like humans are demonstrating that, far from needing god to arbitrate right and wrong, we are more then willing and able to adapt His ethics for our subjective lives. It is culture, not god, that manifests morality. So Darwinism isn't a threat to that sort of construct. IMO.

Perhaps then you can describe the logical fallacy of claiming people accept Darwinism as true because "It makes it easier to do/be evil when you think there are no consequences for your actions".

I didn't say "people accept Darwinism" because of
"morality". It's accepted (in most part) because of his assumptions drew from his work in observing adaptation (which nobody denies happens btw) within species. This is what the "overwhelming evidence supports", not that mutations add new specified information to the genome resulting in new complex parts/structures/features/systems. The "overwhelming evidence" shows mutations (when expressed) basically always cause disease, deformity, or death. There is still no mechanism known that can add new specified information to genome.

I'll point you to the statement directly above your own. You clearly draw a moral link between people accepting Darwinism and their moral behaviour.

Darwin was a racist and believed certain races were superior to others because they were "more evolved". Hitler, and his like, killed millions in big part to his wrong idea (or do you think his idea was right?)
Nobody can justify killing anyone according to Jesus' teachings. Your analogy between Darwin and Jesus is a 100% fail
You would need to argue why the teachings of Jesus were wrong (and potentially harmful to mankind) to even begin that analogy/argument.

"Kill them all, God will know his own"- some crusader. Jesus is responsible for the violence of the crusades if Darwin is responsible for the Holocaust.

I agree, it is illogical. I would never use that as an argument except to indicate absurdity. Which I did.

( Do you disagree? If so, why?)

I didn't watch it. I'm not that interested in resuming debates that concluded 6 months ago...

Do you believe mutation is a real thing?

God may have created us but it seems that a random process, largely intiated by the sun, is undermining his work. This is something random, unguided, uninitiated, which is able to override creation. Either god is working through mutation or he is unable/unwilling to exercise his will over it. Why don't Christians just start claiming that god is the mutagenic process?

 

[Voyager3]

Phew! A lot to get through, if you don't mind me saying Noto!? Your faith and determination to preach it are clearly very important to you, but I find your absolute faith in the Bible as being the unquestionable, infallible 'word of godde' (as a historian I prefer the medieval spelling) somewhat naiive? The Bible is a hodge podge of manuscripts, books, tales and legends, written down during many centuries, mostly based on ancient oral traditions, by Jewish scholars and scribes, and later on by Greek, Aramaic and Coptic Christians, which has since been edited, censored, translated and mistranslated countless times, with vast amounts of essential material, including many Gospels recording the teachings and life of Jesus, which were not merely omitted from the Bible, by systematically sought out and destroyed during the second and third centuries, because they did not appeal the the Romans. Luckily, copies remain of some, but because they are not 'canoninical' or approved by the Church of Rome, are treated with horror and dread by Christians who aren't interested in learning the truth, or checking historical facts, they desperately stick to the 'infallible instructions' of ignorant Popes who died nearly 2000 years ago!


I don't know which (of the many versions of the) Bible you stick to, I suspect the King James? You likewise, and most unhealthily IMHO, seem deeply attached to his 'Demonologie', stuck in the dismal, ridiculous world of Matthew Hopkins and the Witch persecutions of the 16th/17th centuries. What are you so afraid of, 'at war' with demons, evil spirits, Lucifer, 'fallen angels' and a host of what can only be described as 'gods'... yet surely there is, in your Book, only the one God? And if there are great legions of 'evil godlets' loose in the world, who made them, if not God?


YYour God is of course all-powerful, all-knowing, omnipotent, loving, forgiving and caring - yet apparently seems content to leave us humans, so beloved and special, at the mercy of all these naughty, mischievous and destructive entitities? An odd way for a Loving, Caring, Jealous God to go about things!


Even so, I will give you the benefit of the doubt for a moment, and mention a Biblical story, one of the oldest in that book, which might show you the most serious problem I have believing, worshipping and loving your version of God. Bear in mind that (I presume?) you consider God to be more powerful than 'the Devil' or whatever you want to call him>

The story of Job concerns a good, faithful, righteous man, who worships God generously, faithfully and without question - and loves Him too. When bored one day, God and the Devil are Having a chat - that to me alone is a bit odd? But never mind. They seem to socialise somehow, and God is proudly confident of the love, respect and faith his devout followers have in him. The Devil begs to differ.... so they have a bet. At random, God selects a particularly good example of one of his followers, Job, and tells the Devil to do his worst, ruin his life... Job will still love and worship me! And so, an old Mr Omnipitent looks on, the Evil One goes to work, killing his family, destroying his posessions, and inflicting him with cruel diseases and disabilities, but the poor man never loses his faith, even at Death's door.... and God calmly watches the poor man undergoing the most awful, painful, cruel atrocities, smug in the knowledge (I presume, seeing God is 'all knowing' and not someone to bet against!) that Job continues to be faithful and worship, no matter how miserable. Eventually the Devil conceded his loss, and God puts everything right for the poor unfortunate Job.


It is rather like letting someone torture your dog, confident in the knowledge that Fido will still love you when it comes to dinner time, and knows you have the tin opener. This God that you claim to love and trust to the limit, is most certainly NOT the kind of Entity I wish to worship, trust, respect, love and even like, thank you very much. As for the evil spirits and demonic entities you seem to assume are controlling and consorting with me, many of them are merely friends I knew in life who have died, and the spiritsof people who died long ago, some famous, some not. There are also some who might be considered 'angels' and guardians, who are benevolent, protective and wise. I have no idea why you seem surrounded by 'fallen angels' and demons, or choose to engage in some war against such beings? AFAIK they are kept well away from me, I am confident I am surrounded by layers of light, Love and Good, for I have never been disturbed by anything 'Evil', or tempted by anyone or anything in Spirit to DO anything evil, cruel, dishonest or wicked. I can only suggest you are doing something very wrong if you are?

 

[methamaniac]

No, in fact, I don't. Not outside the human sphere. I don't think these qualities exist objectively anywhere. They literally came into the world with humans.

But you do believe they exist inside the " human sphere", correct? If so, are they subject to change at anytime?

Perhaps then you can describe the logical fallacy of claiming people accept Darwinism as true because "It makes it easier to do/be evil when you think there are no consequences for your actions".

There's no fallacy.
I never said "people accept Darwinism as true because it makes it easier to do/be evil....."
I said "it makes it easier to do/be evil when you think there are no consequences for your actions." Wanting to be evil isn't a prerequisite for believing in Darwinism. I'm saying, unlike believing in God, random chance/accident comes with no additional consequences for doing/being evil.
It's self explanatory as why it would be easier to do something evil with less consequences. (Of course this is all based on a belief evil exists) ?

I'll point you to the statement directly above your own. You clearly draw a moral link between people accepting Darwinism and their moral behaviour.

Yes, I made the link ( per my Hitler example) that belief in Darwin's wrong ideas (i.e inferior races) results in bad moral behavior.
I'm not making a blanket statement that covers all those who believe in any of Darwin's ideas.
I don't see the problem.

Jesus is responsible for the violence of the crusades if Darwin is responsible for the Holocaust.

Let me explain this again....
Darwin was a racist and promoted racist ideas.
He was wrong.(I hope you agree)
Hitler and his counterparts expanded on his ideas, which no doubt resulted in deaths.
His wrong ideas are what are responsible (and he himself if he held any hatred towards unfavored races)
Unless you can explain clearly something Jesus did or said wrong that could have contributed to the crusades, you need to abandon your analogy/argument.

I agree, it is illogical. I would never use that as an argument except to indicate absurdity. Which I did.

Except it indicated no absurdity. Well, not on my part at least ?

I didn't watch it. I'm not that interested in resuming debates that concluded 6 months ago...

I didn't bring the topic of evolution back up.
You do realize you can discuss topics more than once, right? Watch the video. It's cool.?
It's not long.
Do you believe the chrysalis could evolve through random accumulated mutations?
It's a rational question, no?

Do you believe mutation is a real thing?

of course

God may have created us but it seems that a random process, largely intiated by the sun, is undermining his work. This is something random, unguided, uninitiated, which is able to override creation. Either god is working through mutation or he is unable/unwilling to exercise his will over it. Why don't Christians just start claiming that god is the mutagenic process?

Personally, I believe God is allowing this process.
It's kinda obvi we are all going to die an Earthly death.
Mutations happen, but these errors are not adding new info to the genome, nor can they explain the complex systems/parts of organisms.
They definitely can't explain a complex 4bit code aka DNA.

 

[HypGnosis]

@NotoInvega, the fallen angels do, and are manifest physically, it says so in your own bible - crudely paraphrased " the fallen saw the daughters of men were fit and shagged them " .....Also, fallen angels are not demons, the two are completely different......I do appreciate your prayers though, and I too pray for you. I pray Lucifer comes to you and brings you the light you so dearly need .....Hail Lucifer