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Esoteric Novel Psychedelics

Feretile

Feretile

Bluelighter
Joined
Feb 2, 2022
Messages
361
Location
EU
ibb.co

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I'm sure you will all see that they are just rigid psilocin derivatives with the o-methoxy-3-n-propyl moiety.

Amazing that it took them a decade.

If you want something better than MDMA, (S) 7-methyl aET is IT. It's a sad situation that Chinese manufacturers really haven't a clue about chiral resolution.... but trust me. We called it Empathy & it was the bulk price that meant it didn't replace the far poorer 5APB & 6APB and even MDMA. Did you know 5APB & 6APB are patented but an Israeli chemist got $25000 of an RC distributor for 'discovering' them?

I keep hearing that - the people who can design RCs and their synthetic route (a compound is worth nothing unless you have a cheap synthesis) are all, apparently, arrogant t*ats. Still, the above is for free, is tested (everyone on www.eunoiapharmacopia.com). Good luck on a cheap route to 7-methyl-3-indolecarvoxaldehyde.

I mean - why U-47700? Because it can be made in 1 step from commercially available chemicals
why isophenidine? Because it can be made in 1 simple step at RT using cheap reagents
why pyrazolam - because 1Kg - 2 million pills ;-)

That is the FIRSY thing to know - how much does is cost per dose? We had another MDMA beater but it was 3 steps & precursors were nor cheap.... so 6-APB. It's sad when awesome produce does not make the cut.
 
Phobos said:
I was reading on Wikipedia that it is a powerful MAO Inhibitor, did you find this to be true? One would think that this property would make it a very dangerous drug to OD on.
Click to expand...
Not at the doses needed if you resolve the isomers i.e. 40mg.

I DID look into this closely. I talked to David E. Nichols, Sasha & David Nutt and they all said it was acceptable as long as people were not taking MAOIs or even RIMAs.

I suppose that is an example of 'the extra mile;'. I do nor know of any other RC designer who found the risks and either solved them or ditched the product. I dumped about 60%. We used Huntingdon Life Sciences for animal models. First into man was me, first into woman was my wife & first into son was my son.

THAT was my checksum. I would ask 'Would I be happy for Ollie to take this' and in the majority of cases, the answer was NO.

But trust me, all of those highly paid medicinal chemists as places like Pfizer worry less.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk

The Drug Trial: What Went Wrong In The Infamous ‘Elephant Men’ Case

'It was scary to see somebody you love so disfigured.'
www.huffingtonpost.co.uk www.huffingtonpost.co.uk

The people behind this should have gone to prison. It's because we do not adopt the https://www.alltrials.net/ standard. IF a drug fails, still write up WHY it failed. They could/should have known a SuperMAB would cause a cytokine storm.

I'm not a good person but with pyrazolam, for example - over 1 million people trusted me to keep them safe. THAT is a huge responsibility so if I suggest something, I have purposefully ODed on it. I did 240mg of dixlazepam to prove it was safe.... lost 10 days, But I do not see Pfizer staff doing this. Until the 1970s it was USUAL for the team to be FiM. I was taught by some of them (Bentley, Lednicer, Cook).

So trust me when I say I took 250mg but I had beta-blockers & BP measurements to prevent TIA or stroke.

Yeah, the money is nice, but people saying what a GREAT time they have is MY addiction.

If you want to be careful (R) aMT is similar - a bit like MDA to aETs MDMA. Yeah - I had aMT resolved. I was lucky, good boss. ChemOffice * Reaxys at my desk ($17000/annum).... but I just like getting it right.

I have an alcohol mimic in the middle of patent and a fast-acting antidepressant designed to be used between presentation (patient sees doctor) and SSRI/Tricyclic working. It's SO SIMPLE. Just replace the -Cl of alprazolam with an -NO2, Thar 4th ring robs it of all a1 affinity so it is not hypnotic.... but ALL nitrobenzodiazepines release serotonin..... so you can SEE why it's impoetant (since 50% of suicides take place within 2 weeks of seeing a doctor.

I do not seek to make money - just people not dying.
 
Feretile said:
ibb.co

tryp hosted at ImgBB

Image tryp hosted in ImgBB
ibb.co ibb.co


I'm sure you will all see that they are just rigid psilocin derivatives with the o-methoxy-3-n-propyl moiety.

Amazing that it took them a decade.

If you want something better than MDMA, (S) 7-methyl aET is IT. It's a sad situation that Chinese manufacturers really haven't a clue about chiral resolution.... but trust me. We called it Empathy & it was the bulk price that meant it didn't replace the far poorer 5APB & 6APB and even MDMA. Did you know 5APB & 6APB are patented but an Israeli chemist got $25000 of an RC distributor for 'discovering' them?

I keep hearing that - the people who can design RCs and their synthetic route (a compound is worth nothing unless you have a cheap synthesis) are all, apparently, arrogant t*ats. Still, the above is for free, is tested (everyone on www.eunoiapharmacopia.com). Good luck on a cheap route to 7-methyl-3-indolecarvoxaldehyde.

I mean - why U-47700? Because it can be made in 1 step from commercially available chemicals
why isophenidine? Because it can be made in 1 simple step at RT using cheap reagents
why pyrazolam - because 1Kg - 2 million pills ;-)

That is the FIRSY thing to know - how much does is cost per dose? We had another MDMA beater but it was 3 steps & precursors were nor cheap.... so 6-APB. It's sad when awesome produce does not make the cut.
Click to expand...
Didn't the parent Science paper demonstrate that those two compounds shown were not active psychadelics? The more interesting compound from that group had the same backbone but lacked the ortho methoxy phenethyl/phenpropyl tail. It produced a head twitch in rodents similar to LSD and DOI, where the two compounds shown were demonstrated to not do that.

Structure-based discovery of nonhallucinogenic psychedelic analogs - Article&Book-Science hub Mutual Aid community

Structure-based discovery of nonhallucinogenic psychedelic analogs
www.wosonhj.com

Check the supplemental data for the more interesting compound.
 
Skorpio said:
Didn't the parent Science paper demonstrate that those two compounds shown were not active psychadelics? The more interesting compound from that group had the same backbone but lacked the ortho methoxy phenethyl/phenpropyl tail. It produced a head twitch in rodents similar to LSD and DOI, where the two compounds shown were demonstrated to not do that.

Structure-based discovery of nonhallucinogenic psychedelic analogs - Article&Book-Science hub Mutual Aid community

Structure-based discovery of nonhallucinogenic psychedelic analogs
www.wosonhj.com

Check the supplemental data for the more interesting compound.
Click to expand...

DOSE.
 
Feretile said:
Not at the doses needed if you resolve the isomers i.e. 40mg.

I DID look into this closely. I talked to David E. Nichols, Sasha & David Nutt and they all said it was acceptable as long as people were not taking MAOIs or even RIMAs.

I suppose that is an example of 'the extra mile;'. I do nor know of any other RC designer who found the risks and either solved them or ditched the product. I dumped about 60%. We used Huntingdon Life Sciences for animal models. First into man was me, first into woman was my wife & first into son was my son.

THAT was my checksum. I would ask 'Would I be happy for Ollie to take this' and in the majority of cases, the answer was NO.

But trust me, all of those highly paid medicinal chemists as places like Pfizer worry less.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk

The Drug Trial: What Went Wrong In The Infamous ‘Elephant Men’ Case

'It was scary to see somebody you love so disfigured.'
www.huffingtonpost.co.uk www.huffingtonpost.co.uk

The people behind this should have gone to prison. It's because we do not adopt the https://www.alltrials.net/ standard. IF a drug fails, still write up WHY it failed. They could/should have known a SuperMAB would cause a cytokine storm.

I'm not a good person but with pyrazolam, for example - over 1 million people trusted me to keep them safe. THAT is a huge responsibility so if I suggest something, I have purposefully ODed on it. I did 240mg of dixlazepam to prove it was safe.... lost 10 days, But I do not see Pfizer staff doing this. Until the 1970s it was USUAL for the team to be FiM. I was taught by some of them (Bentley, Lednicer, Cook).

So trust me when I say I took 250mg but I had beta-blockers & BP measurements to prevent TIA or stroke.

Yeah, the money is nice, but people saying what a GREAT time they have is MY addiction.

If you want to be careful (R) aMT is similar - a bit like MDA to aETs MDMA. Yeah - I had aMT resolved. I was lucky, good boss. ChemOffice * Reaxys at my desk ($17000/annum).... but I just like getting it right.

I have an alcohol mimic in the middle of patent and a fast-acting antidepressant designed to be used between presentation (patient sees doctor) and SSRI/Tricyclic working. It's SO SIMPLE. Just replace the -Cl of alprazolam with an -NO2, Thar 4th ring robs it of all a1 affinity so it is not hypnotic.... but ALL nitrobenzodiazepines release serotonin..... so you can SEE why it's impoetant (since 50% of suicides take place within 2 weeks of seeing a doctor.

I do not seek to make money - just people not dying.
Click to expand...
How old is your son that you gave this research chemical to? What did he describe the effects of it to be like? What did you and your wife experience from it? Wikipedia says this drug is super dangerous like PMA.
 
PriestTheyCalledHim said:
How old is your son that you gave this research chemical to? What did he describe the effects of it to be like? What did you and your wife experience from it? Wikipedia says this drug is super dangerous like PMA.
Click to expand...
I recall you from Opiophile. OLD, let's just leave it at that.

DOSE - above 4mg.
 
Feretile said:
I recall you from Opiophile. OLD, let's just leave it at that.

DOSE - above 4mg.
Click to expand...
Huh? I was never on Opiophile web forum. When I very naively and foolishly dabbled with pharmaceutical grade opiates orally such as Codeine, Oxycodone, and Hydrocodone in the late 1990s and early 2000s as many thousands of people did even people who were not even into drugs as they never smoked marijuana or hashish, never took Dexedrine, never took LSD or shrooms, etc. I did not like how the opiates in low doses gave me stomach cramps when they would wear off or how I became sick on them and vomited or felt like I was going to vomit. I was much much more into high, moderate, and low doses of LSD and have taken acid more times than opiates, I loved mushrooms, and was more into smoking pot or hashish daily or weekly when I could get it, drinking alcohol, taking low doses of Dexedrine, I tried cocaine once but enjoyed it too much, I took nitrous oxide maybe 3-5 times, research chemicals, benzod and MDMA did not interest me. MDA seems more interesting but it is apparently highly neurotoxic, and I had heard of MDA/MDMA being cut with METH and other drugs and I was not into raves or PLUR as a kandy kid, but preferred much older disco, but the underground stuff, not the stuff played on the radio or at local dances or socials for teens, but late 70s sex disco was always super fun. I never took Ketamine, DXM, or even ANGEL DUST which is uncommon as literally 100s of people I grew up with had used PCP at least once or twice, liked getting wet or dusted occasionally at parties and it was everywhere and super easy to get, inexpensive, etc. It was easier to get Angel dust than it was to buy a bottle of liquor in a government owned store.

You did not really answer my query about what the effect of these drugs are? What was so urgent that you played lab chimpanzee with a drug that is like PMA, and later did so with your wife and son? Taking so much of random experimental research chem benzos or any benzos so you black out for ten days or so you claim is stupid, or did you have a death wish?

Which drugs were those Pfizer chemists Bentley, Lednicer, and Cook lab rats or guinea pigs for?

Regarding the article you linked about the drug trial, this is why I would take part in paid drug survey studies, but I personally would never take part in a drug trial, be a lab rat or guinea pig for research chemicals, etc. If others want to do this it is their choice.

A friend of mine died from a cytokine storm, he was very sick with cancer and getting chemotherapy, radiation, and surgery for it. I miss him so much, rest in peace KK. I hope to see you again someday.
 
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Phobos said:
I was reading on Wikipedia that it is a powerful MAO Inhibitor, did you find this to be true? One would think that this property would make it a very dangerous drug to OD on.
Click to expand...
Very true. It has similar pharmacological effects to αET, but is both 3-4 times more potent as a serotonin releasing agent, and 10 times more potent as a monoamine oxidase inhibitor, making it potentially hazardous as this pharmacological profile is shared with drugs such as PMA and 4-MTA, which are known to be dangerous in humans.
 
Feretile said:
Not at the doses needed if you resolve the isomers i.e. 40mg.

I DID look into this closely. I talked to David E. Nichols, Sasha & David Nutt and they all said it was acceptable as long as people were not taking MAOIs or even RIMAs.
Click to expand...
Where did 40 mg get you? Is it possible to relate the effects to x dose of MDMA?
 
I’d like to know more about this 7-methyl-AET, any experience info would be appreciated.

-GC
 
PriestTheyCalledHim said:
Very true. It has similar pharmacological effects to αET, but is both 3-4 times more potent as a serotonin releasing agent, and 10 times more potent as a monoamine oxidase inhibitor, making it potentially hazardous as this pharmacological profile is shared with drugs such as PMA and 4-MTA, which are known to be dangerous in humans.
Click to expand...

Well, firstly, I'm talking about (R) 7-methyl αET so if you look at the QSAR you will note that the 7-Me is about x4 more potent than parent and it's the (R) isomer so it's x2 as potent again.... so MAOI activity isn't an issue at normal doses I also read the patents but I got to ASK people like Sasha & David Nichols specifically about it's activity. These guys are always happy to answer a properly formed technical question. I didn't presume - I asked those with experience.

It is the (S) isomer that possesses affinity for the 5HT2a receptors but it's the (R) isomer that inhibits VMAT2. The (S) is simply a VMAT2 substrate as far as it is possible to tell.

We used HLS to do all of the initial testing with cells (Ames, hERG,, iPSCm RPTEC... you know the list) and then we carried out proper Stage 1 trials (staff), Stage 2 trials (members of www.eunoiapharmacopia.com).

Nothing was guessed at. Tens and then hundreds and then thousands all took part. I agree that it's morally questionable but I would argue that simply GUESSING and then titrating it on yourself and a few friends is inherently immoral. If people buy RCs then they are putting their lives in your hands so it's a responsibility.

I think you will find that all of the para mono substituted amphetamines have quite a lot of MAOI activity. History is full of anorectics with p-(pseudo)halo and a few with m-(pseudo)halos and that did not end well but the doses were small so only fenfluramine & aminorex caused a large amount of injury.

Plain amphetamine is an MAOI. It's how active they are & how large the dose is. As it turned out, 4MTA (flatliners) were the most dangerous. That and the cluster of deaths in NW England that turned out to be a mixture of p-TAP & amphetamine.

I think the well-worn line 'the dose makes the poison' applies.

I could have sworn I saw you with that avatar on Opiophile. I don't know where the name/image comes from but maybe it's some band or film or something. I don't know, but strange coincidence.

G_CHem: Well, aET was sold AS MDMA in the US so safe to say that it's effects are very similar. (R) 7-methyl-aET is almost identical but the dose is much lower. 20-40mg is easily enough. Of course, it isn't really available because it's so much more expensive to make than MDMA. If people take a look at the sibutramine scaffold, they might get an idea for a legal MDMA alternative that being legal can be ordered in bulk. Scaling is always the problem. If you have to reach the 100Kg scale before you see a profit, it's a big risk. Someone could come out with a much cheaper MDMA mimic. They did - 6APB (which was patented).
 
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Anonymous Dissident said:
I think @clubcard did some trials with it iirc, but that's about all I've seen about it. It's got my curiosity piqued as well.
Click to expand...

The problem is that the precursors are not commercially available and making custom indole-3-aldehydes isn't cheap.

Their are some 1960s Upjohn patents. I began by resolving AMT that I bought. It was then that I discovered that the 2 isomers were totally different in character.

I remember Ken Casey saying that AMT was 'the Rolls Royce of psychedelics'. Now, I found it too stimulating.... but the pure (S) was much better SOOOO.... I wondered if the AMT Casey took was derived from a natural (i.e. chiral) source.

It's those tiny hints that made me consider the tryptamines in a totally different manner.
 
Feretile said:
The problem is that the precursors are not commercially available and making custom indole-3-aldehydes isn't cheap.

Their are some 1960s Upjohn patents. I began by resolving AMT that I bought. It was then that I discovered that the 2 isomers were totally different in character.
Click to expand...
I've heard this before. Very interesting. Did you resolve the isomers with tartaric acid?
Feretile said:
I remember Ken Casey saying that AMT was 'the Rolls Royce of psychedelics'.
Click to expand...
Small point of clarity: Ken Casey is the bass player for the American punk rock band, the Dropkick Murphys. Ken Kesey, the author of cuckoo's nest fame, is cited by Michael Valentine Smith as having called AMT the Rolls Royce of psychedelics, but according to Tim Leary, this quote belonged to Neal Cassady who called Psilocybin ”the Rolls Royce of dope.“
Feretile said:
Now, I found it too stimulating.... but the pure (S) was much better SOOOO.... I wondered if the AMT Casey took was derived from a natural (i.e. chiral) source.
Click to expand...
Idk, Ken Kesey and the Merry Pranksters and the Beatniks before them, I think, all tended to be speed freaks back in the day, so it wouldn't surprise me if Kesey had more tolerance for speedy drugs... Supposedly they had AMT on the Further bus and it was lifted from Menlo Park where Kesey signed up for and participated in psychedelic testing. This was also partially the inspiration for his famous book.

How were the two isomers different, to you, qualitatively?
 
I looked them up on STP and they're both kinda...impotent. I mean they're probably very potent but for psychedelics they lack a lot of what needs for a good one.

Not everything can have an NBOMe you know?

Also we're not /all/ arrogant twats...maybe it's the writer not the reader displaying inadequacies?

If you want some novel psychedelics then PM me, I have about 5-10 different bases on which to explore.
 
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