Not a heavy drug user at all, but I think I may be in trouble unless....

[PJ2]

Hello,

And, thanks for reading this post. I'll try to make this short and to the point.

40 years old.

Did Molly January 24. Very little. Also did Molly the following night. Both times I felt something, but I was actually not too impressed. I certainly wasn't rolling hard. I've done MDMA maybe 4/5 times years before. Combined I did less than half a capsule this time. I'm so clueless at this point I forgot it's not the greatest drug to do on consecutive days. So....

About 3 days later, I wake up and it feels like an ax has split my head into two halves and I am in an immediate panicked state. Anxiety, nausea, headache, insomnia, panicky, can't think clearly or concentrate, feel pretty dull or stupid, have sensations in head I've never felt before. These symptoms last in fairly severe form for a couple of weeks. I managed to stay out of the doctors office or emergency room only bc I got a hold of some anti-anxiety pills. They seemed to greatly reduce the symptoms. I also forced myself to eat really healthy (I had no appetite), go to the gym, etc...

Eventually, symptoms faded and I could think clearly and felt much better. In fact, for about a week, I felt almost 100%. Then, the symptoms started to come back, but usually in a milder form, but still persistent and extremely troublesome. Waves of anxiety, nausea, unable to think clearly, strange headaches, insomnia.

Now, I've done more reading online than I care to on the subjects of MDMA, neurotoxicity, seratonin levels, etc...

We are talking about 6 weeks at this point since I took the drug. Can this possibly be my brain re-adjusting the seratonin still? Did I just fuck up my brain permanently? Does anyone have any recovery stories they care to share? I can't lie, I'm scared shitless at this point. Currently having a bad symptom day.

 

[MagickalKat777]

6 weeks really is nothing when it comes to recovery time. You will recover just fine. I'm going to send this over to our recovery forum so that they can assist you with some strategies for recovery. Part of the problem is that you're reading all of these things about neurotoxicity and comedowns in a vulnerable state and you're panicking yourself into manifesting the symptoms. If you can stop obsessing and just go on with your life, you will recover much quicker.

MED > TDS

 

[PJ2]

I know what you mean in terms of obsessing, but I try to do exactly as you say and go about my day. Then, the symptoms will just pop up and it's not like I can just make them go away. Like yesterday, I went to a birthday party and an after party afterwards. I didn't even drink as I am clean as a whistle at the moment while trying to get better. At some point, I notice my hearing is weird and I feel kind of detached from what is going on. I get this same sort of strange headache too whenever symptoms start occurring. So, I get anxious and have to split the party in a hurry. I couldn't fall asleep until 11:00 am the next morning. This really sucks. I didn't even do that much for this reason. Not like I am a hardcore user.

 

[Allein]

I'm in agreement with MK777 here, your symptoms read very much like panic attacks of some kind.

To be absolutely clear about what I'm saying here, I'm not suggesting that this makes things any less unpleasant for you or that these symptoms are not important to address.

I have used MDMA heavily and for many years, in the past and know it can certainly have such adverse effects with dose having very little to do with it, in fact IME panic attacks are more common in less experienced users.

The detachment and derealisation that you describe is not uncommon in anxiety, stress and depression disorders, I've suffered similar myself but unrelated to recent MDMA use,it can be very disturbing, and can lead to yet further anxiety and panic.

You seem to be doing the right things, staying away from other drugs and trying to get on with things, have you ever tried any form of meditation or relaxation exercises, they would be likely to help with underlying anxiety and general well being.

Keep in touch

 

[PJ2]

Thanks Allein for the reply,

I am trying as you say. My brain functioning just isn't normal no matter how much I try to get on with my life. I've done all sorts of drugs when I was younger and I've never had any lasting effects from anything like this before. I've certainly improved from a few weeks ago where it took everything I had just to get through the day without going to a psych ward. The almost daily headaches are really bothersome as well. But, other symptoms have completely faded or have dissipated greatly. For instance, for a week or two the front of my head felt "dull" like I had gotten a lobotomy. That is gone. I guess I should take this as signs of "recovery."

In your experience, will I return to fully normal? If so, how long would you guess it to take?

 

[Flaga121]

To me, this sounds like a case of MDMA bringing out an underlying situation, such as mild depression or higher anxiety. MDMA can be a shock to the system, some times it removes defense mechanisms to the point we start feeling things we bury. Listen to your body, figure out whats going on with you, and try and stay calm knowing that the human brain is remarkably reliant. If this is due to the drugs you will recover quickly, if it's psychological you need to address underlying issues.

 

[Allein]

Thanks Allein for the reply,

I am trying as you say. My brain functioning just isn't normal no matter how much I try to get on with my life. I've done all sorts of drugs when I was younger and I've never had any lasting effects from anything like this before. I've certainly improved from a few weeks ago where it took everything I had just to get through the day without going to a psych ward. The almost daily headaches are really bothersome as well. But, other symptoms have completely faded or have dissipated greatly. For instance, for a week or two the front of my head felt "dull" like I had gotten a lobotomy. That is gone. I guess I should take this as signs of "recovery."

In your experience, will I return to fully normal? If so, how long would you guess it to take?

It sounds like you are on the mend clearly we can't diagnose your condition here and as falga121 has mentioned you may well have underlying anxieties and such that have been triggered by this unfortunate episode.

One persons experience with a substance can be very much different to someone else's even when we are sure of what the substance is which in this case we can't be.

Things do sound like they are improving over time, showing that you are recovering from whatever impact this experience caused, I would take this as a very positive sign. I wouldn't focus on ' normal', you simply can't asses yourself objectively in that way and trying to will just add to any anxiety you have, I've done this myself and ended up in a right mess....I don't think I want to be 'normal anyway

Keep up the good work, it sound like you'll be just fine in no time

 

[ScaredFirstTimer]

Good advice in this thread! However, it is important to acknowledge that the OP probably hasn't "manifested" these symptoms by reading about them. The fact that the symptoms set in 3 days after is consistent with a physical reaction (chemical depletion/imbalance, neurotoxicity, who knows) from MDMA. I remember feeling that I wasn't taken seriously when people would quickly shrug and pin it on anxiety or an "underlying issue". The symptoms and the way they manifest for the majority of comedown sufferers is so similar that it's becoming obvious that it is caused by the same sort of physical reaction/damage/whatever. Now, this reaction may again have set off some sort of acute anxiety response, which again is causing many of the symptoms.

Now that MK77 has decided to move these threads out of sight from MED, where the actual knowledge about this is for the most part, I feel that it is important to take these threads seriously here in TDS, and do what we can do aid people in recovery.

Again, very good advice in this thread. I find that some sort of mindfulness has been helpful, as well as exercise. Being out in the sun, and trying to be social has also helped tremendously. However, I think the most important factor in this is time and abstinence from any drugs, alcohol, caffeine.

 

[MagickalKat777]

Now that MK77 has decided to move these threads out of sight from MED, where the actual knowledge about this is for the most part, I feel that it is important to take these threads seriously here in TDS, and do what we can do aid people in recovery.

If you have a problem with a decision that was made by the mods, you bring it up with the mods. Outside of what you may believe, we had a mod discussion about this, it wasn't something that I decided to do on my own. Don't make me out to be the bad guy. One of the reasons that came up for sending these threads to recovery is because the recovery forum has more empathy and more members that can help than the people in MED who tend to be negative. It has nothing to do with moving them out of sight and everything to do with trying to find the best way to get people the help that they need. This is all I'm going to say about this issue, if you want to discuss it more feel free to PM myself, another mod from MED, or a senior mod to discuss this but do not air it in the open forum in such an aggressive manner.

 

[Allein]

here the actual knowledge about this is for the most part

Really ?? that does seem to be making huge assumptions based on very little fact.

We had hoped that the recovery forums would be much better placed to deal with these, largely psychological issues, it's kinda what we do over here.

I'm not about to start measuring my anatomy for all and sundry but rest assured as some one who was 20 in 1990 in the UK, I may have a little 'knowledge' in the area.

The focus forums are great places to discuss specific HR around the actual use of various substances as well as providing some general social interaction but IMHO the recovery forums are much better placed to offer support to those struggling with mental and physical problems which may or may not be related to drug use of all kinds.

Like the MagicalKat suggested, if you wish to challenge of discuss these things a PM to the relevant staff member is the best root to do so, I'd be happy to respond to such a query

 

[PJ2]

Seems there is some insinuation that these are just "psychological issues" or some "underlying condition" triggered by taking MDMA. I say MDMA bc although the powder was untested I am 99% sure it was Molly - I know the person I got it from and many others that did the same shit. Everyone seems to agree that is was the real deal. I was the only one that sampled it two nights in a row, however, although in minimal amounts.

Anyway, whatever has occurred to my head/brain after using is certainly causing psychological problems and anxiety in addition to others, but there was no previous condition to speak of or anything remotely close. This is simply a drug experience gone horribly wrong and I'm telling you it can happen. I am not sure if that makes other's out there uncomfortable who like to think they are perfectly safe doing this drug, but they are not. I've done it a few times before and been just fine, but not this time!

Just setting the record straight.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

If you had a panic attack or lots of anxiety or do now after the drug use, stop using MDMA/MDA or other drugs if you use those. I've never taken MDMA or MDA or anything like that but a friend of mine has and they only used it a total of 2 at the very least, or 3-4 times at the most very rarely once or twice a year, and did have a bit of anxiety on it once so they stopped using it as they have had anxiety before while sober and taking MDMA and MDA was not helping that. A LOT of people wind up getting anxiety from using drugs such as even just smoking cannabis so they stop using them. I read about how you had taken anti-anxiety pills if they were benzos (valium, xanax, klonopin, ativan, etc.) be careful as those can be very addictive both physically and psychologically. Good luck.

 

[Allein]

Anyway, whatever has occurred to my head/brain after using is certainly causing psychological problems and anxiety in addition to others, but there was no previous condition to speak of or anything remotely close. This is simply a drug experience gone horribly wrong and I'm telling you it can happen. I am not sure if that makes other's out there uncomfortable who like to think they are perfectly safe doing this drug, but they are not. I've done it a few times before and been just fine, but not this time!

Just setting the record straight.

Thanks for posting that, it provides an opportunity for me to try and clarify my view point.

I think we need to put the exact substance aside, these type of reactions occur with a wide range of drugs, MDMA isnt unique in any way in this regard.

Separating the possible chemical imbalance in the brain and symptoms such as depression or anxiety isn't wholly possible, modern medicine seeks to treat these issues with chemicals to redress the balance where as talking therapies seek to help the individual resolve them and, I assume this then causes the imbalance to be redressed. I don't for one moment believ that things are quite that simple but do believe the 2 things have an undeniable connection.

Some one that may have tendencies in their personality to develop anxiety or depression and then go on to take drugs that can affect mood and at least transiently produce adverse symptoms would seem more likely to develop longer term issues with these negative psychological problems, I think that seems a reasonable assumption for some people.

To state outright that MDMA has caused depression or anxiety in these cases is one view point and to say that these issues are psycological and may have been triggered by MDMA is another. I think that it's just a argument of semantics that leads to no where.

I hope you don't feel like people are being dismissive of your problems, I honestly do not believe that is the case. In the past I have used this drugs extensively and years later have suffered acute depression and anxiety problems. I haven't found it productive to dwell on the whys, you won't get any useful answers and you can't untake the drugs.

To be clear no drugs are 100% safe even prescription drugs have some horrible side effects in some, my experience with Antidepressants, steroids, antipsychotics and immune system suppressants has shown me that. My abuse of stimulants in general has certainly had its down sides and certainly contributed to my mental illness.

The fact is you have these issues in the here and now, this is the person you are and you can't go back to the person you were, that's not possible for anyone ill or otherwise, we are all in a constant state of flux whether we want to acknowledge that or not.

How are you getting on now ? what support have you sought from your doctor?

Best Wishes

 

[PJ2]

Well, it was xanax or the emergency room where they would have given me xanax - most likely...lol. I hate pills and I haven't even drank since this whole episode happened.

I'm feeling better, but this is also more than just anxiety. A lot more symptoms. A lot of the cognitive issues have faded since the first few weeks, but still pop up occasionally. Kind of hard to work when you can't even fucking think straight and it feels like you've had a mini-lobotomy in your head. I mean, it was hard for me to handle a simple conversation for a week or two - that's how bad it was. I couldn't focus long enough. The headaches were atrocious and didn't fit the description of migrains (never had a headache in my life previously). I had massive sensory overload as in I couldn't focus on a single object on the shelf at the grocery store, for example, and read the label. It was too much to handle. But, that was the initial few weeks. I am still just not quite right on the regular although I am improving. Hopefully, the trend continues in this direction.

Interesting too that a symptom of low seratonin, which is what I think I am suffering from now (along with hopefully not too much or irreversible structural damage), is severe thirst. I drink water all day like crazy and am always thirsy. I used to never get thirsty.

 

[PJ2]

Allein,

I get your point. My point is this was/is more like acute trauma to the brain, neurotoxicity - whatever the hell you want to call it. I can feel it physically in my head. So, it's not some problem with anxiety that casually manifested itself after taking a drug. It's much more severe and sinister. Ironically, I probably feel less depressed. I am sort of stupidly bliss for lack of a better description or just trying to go with the flow as they say. And, I guess the tinges of anxiety that I still have sort of wire me in a way where I almost have more energy than "normal" except that I can't focus well enough most of the time to take advantage of it.

 

[Allein]

I'm really sorry to hear your having such a hard time.

Some of your symptoms are familiar to me, a few years ago I had a bad episode or depression and anxiety. I felt totally disconnected from reality, I wasn't at all sure I even existed.

I became unable to function, couldn't or wouldn't leave the house and felt indescribably ill in just about every way, this isnt about me so I'll spare you the detail.

Antidepressants might help, SSRIs would, in theory help to redress the imbalance you suspect but in my case they made me worse and also made me ill in various ways, they are drugs after all.

I sense you are frustrated by my responses and I'm sorry if you have felt I've belittled your problems, I can ssuer nothing is further from the case.

 

[PJ2]

No, I don't feel like you are belittling my problems at all. Just trying to communicate cause and effect as I see it. It helps to have an outlet for sure as I am still trying to hide this from family, most friends etc..I am hoping to avoid the "hey guys I'm really sorry, but I fucked up my brain needlessly" conversation. I've already gotten the "are you ok" questions a few times just from people being around me. Like I said, I am improving and I got to deal with my reality now as you say. I still have my fingers crossed that I can fully recover as in no symptoms virtually ever. Maybe that is not going to happen, I don't know. Like right now, the front of my brain feels a little "achy" and I feel a little spacey and nauseous. Not the best of days today/this morning.

I am actually afraid to take anti-depressants bc I am worried of how my brain is going to react if I were to now. I have a Dr.'s appt in a couple of weeks and I was thinking of going that direction, but maybe my head just needs time more than anything.

 

[herbavore]

I have a Dr.'s appt in a couple of weeks and I was thinking of going that direction, but maybe my head just needs time more than anything.

I do believe that time is your friend but I think it is very important to also believe that your brain is fully capable of recovery. One of the most fascinating things about our brains is that we have the ability to "think" ourselves well; this is true for both physical and emotional imbalances.

 

[ScaredFirstTimer]

Hi again rphilli72.

As a person who's currently going through the same as you I can at least let you know that I am absolutely convinced that my one-time experience with MDMA did not exacerbate some underlying issue of anxiety or depression. I WISH this was the case though. I wish I could pin having bruxism 4 months after ingesting 200mg MDMA on anxiety. I wish I could pin vision problems, trouble articulating, trouble forming proper words and sentences, not having one single full night of sleep since I ingested MDMA almost 4 months ago on anxiety. This is not mentioning the anxiety, depression and the myriad of general cognitive impairments I experience of course.

I think you are smart to stay away from anti-depressants, at least for a good while. Considering the amount of anectodal reports in MED about how suddenly recovery can take place, I would urge you to wait at least(!) 6 months before considering something along the lines of an SSRI. In my case I would only consider trying it if I was suffering from suicidal depression to the extreme that there was an actual possibility that I would go through with it. I have seem some very remarkable improvements in 3,5 months, so on the basis of that and the many other anecdotal reports on bluelight, I can assure you that significant improvement is possible within a relatively short time period without anti-depressants.

It is also important to note that people who have suffered a similar reaction to MDMA does not necessarily respond well to SSRI medication.

Allein, thanks for the reply to my PM. I've been a bit out of it cognitively for the last few days, I'll answer you when I'm fit enough to write a decent response

 

[PJ2]

Hey Scaredfirstimer,

You made it sound like you were getting so much better your last post and now it seems you are struggling much worse and have more severe symptoms than me still. I certainly don't have the articulation, bruxism, or vision problems you seem to be having. Sorry to hear that bc what I am going through seems intolerable at times. In fact, my hearing and vision has improved, if anything, strangely enough. I think it stems from the severe sensory overload phenomena I experienced in the beginning that lingers just a little bit.

I do agree that what we are experiencing isn't anything "underlying." It is a direct cause and effect. I took this powder and it did x to me. It's not - I took this powder and I would have been fine post-usage except I had some pre-existing problem ready to surface. No. That is not what happened.

In my case, I think the second night I rolled (I didn't even roll hard either night really I took so little) my body couldn't metabolize the drug properly bc I took it the night before, which caused a certain amount of "damage." Is that damage irreversible or only temporary? I don't know. It has certainly lasted almost 2 months now.

By the way, how much is 200 mg? 2 tablets?

And, I assume you've been to a doctor at this point? What have they said about your situation?

My recommendation to you is take plenty of vitamins. B6, Fish Oils, Multi, and I highly recommend that Purelife Naturals - Powerful Mind. I am not a company salesman, but that shit gave me my best night's sleep when things were really bad. Like I said, I took two and my head started tingling soon thereafter and I felt a tension release in my head. Next thing I know, I was waking up and for the first time in a week I woke up without a horrendous headache although that eventually returned, but is presently gone again.

I wish you all the best! Hang in there.