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NOOTROPIC Q: If piracetam is giving me a headache, does that mean it's working?

llamer

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Mar 22, 2010
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I just started taking piracetam on tuesday and today I've got a decent headache that advil will not cure. I'm guessing this is the notorious headache one may recieve from piracetam if that person is naturally deficient or something in choline (too much enzyme or whatever). Some people are immune to the nootropic effect of piracetam and then the rest aren't. If my head is hurting as a result of its work on my store of choline, does that mean it is doing its job? Could a person unresponsive to piracetam's nootropic work still suffer these choline-depletion headaches? OR should I be feeling lucky?
thanks guys
 
Interesting question. I'm not sure if this is more appropriate for OD or ADD. So I guess I'll move this from BDD -> OD. (OD mods feel free to move it).

Getting a headache doesn't necessarily prove piracetam is having its intended effect as a nootropic. Not everyone gets headaches and I'm pretty sure it doesn't mean it's not doing anything if you don't get a headache or that it's working well if you do get one. The headaches associated with large doses of piracetam are believed to be caused by the brain expending acetylcholine at a faster rate than usual and taking a choline supplement can relieve the headaches. Perhaps the piracetam could possibly be depleting bodily stores of choline, because it increase choline in the brain, but that doesn't mean that not getting a headache means it isn't working. Just that if you are getting a headache you aren't getting enough choline. Conversely, I don't think getting a headache proves it is working effectively as a nootropic - piracetam also works on a number of different things and the mechanisms of its effects are not well understood, and piracetam seems to need choline to work effectively, so getting a headache might actually even mean it's not going to work as well because you don't have enough choline.

You can't be "naturally deficient" in choline, because choline is a nutrient we get from food. Eat more choline-rich foods or take a choline supplement to get more choline. Taking choline with piracetam can make it work better.

We need choline for the body to make acetylcholine (the neurotransmitter). According to what I've read, piracetam, among having a number of other effects, improves the function of acetylcholine by affecting acetylcholine receptors which are implicated in memory processes. Piracetam when taken by itself decreases the amount of acetylcholine in the brain, but improve its function. Taking/eating choline increases acetylcholine.

Here's an interesting study in rats:
Those subjects given only choline did not differ on the behavioral task from control animals. Rats given piracetam performed slightly better than control rats, but rats given a piracetam/choline combination exhibited retention scores several times better than those given piracetam alone. It was shown that twice the dose of piracetam alone, still did not enhance retention nearly as well as when piracetam and choline were administered together.

Although choline administration raised choline content about 50% in striatum and cortex, changes in acetylcholine levels were much more subtle (only 6-10% ). No significant changes following choline administration were observed in the hippocampus. However, piracetam alone markedly increased choline content in the hippocampus (88% ) and tended to decrease acetylcholine levels (19% ). No measurable changes in striatum or cortex were observed following piracetam administration. The combination of choline and piracetam did not potentiate the effects seen with either drug alone.

Maybe you were thinking of acetylcholine? Since you said maybe "too much enzyme", were you thinking of the enzyme acetylcholinesterase? Acetylcholinesterase converts acetylcholine into its inactive metabolites choline and acetate (the brain makes acetylcholine out of choline and acetyl-CoA). It is important to not have too much acetylcholine (excess acetylcholine can cause breathing and heart problems). But I don't think piracetam increases acetylcholine on it's own.

Anyway, the way piracetam works is not fully understood and it affects more than just choline and acetylcholine receptors. I also wonder if its vascular effects could be responsible for the headaches? I'm not sure if the vascular effects have anything to do with choline or not.

Sorry my post is so long and hopefully I understood you ok and that this info is useful to you :)
 
Thanks for the response. I had been reading in a thread on LONGECITY the other day about the two types of people who respond to piracetam, those who get choline-depletion headaches and those who don't; the folks who don't react to the drug at all weren't described as having any headaches or none, so I was curious. I think it may be working anyway, and according to this thread http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/54394-piracetam-how-to-get-all-the-benefits-from-it/ i may just be getting a headache because I just started taking Wellbutrin a few days beforehand, and these may be contraindicated (tho the exact mechanism isn't described in the link).
Anyways, thank you for your thoughts, I think I will just have to ride this one out to see.
 
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