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Misc nonbenzodiazepine hypnotics - why they stop working after awhile?

i thought triazolam was roughly 4x the strength of alprazolam. when i got it prescribed, i almost never used it for sleep, as it works really well for anxiety and panic attacks, but at the juncture i was seriously desensetized to benzos in general. of all the hypnotics i tried, i found triazolam, flunitrazepam and midazolam to be the only ones that rival alprazolam in terms of anxiolysis.

That's probably because the hypnotic effects were dissociating you from your anxiety, and hence alleviating it. Where as the sedative/anxiolytic benzos (alprazolam, clonazepam, etc) battle the sensation of anxiety.

I personally hallucinate on high doses of lorazepam (it is after all much more hypnotic than the other big 3 benzos alprazolam, diazepam, and clonazepam); its kind of difficult to maintain anxiety when the bushes and trees in front of you start dancing to the beat of the song on the radio... This was after an intramuscular dose of 2mg lorazepam in a hospital, however... Perhaps after an intramuscular dose of any benzo, I'd feel just as goofy..

Anyways, I personally believe that hypnotic benzos are better for immediately derailing a panic attack, whereas the sedative/anxiolytic benzos (the big 3) are better for alleviating "throughout-the-day" anxiety
 
Ambiem aka Zolpidem yes know them well.Just a tad stronger than zopiclone which is in the same group.Thats 1 of the downfalls of those drugz tolerance builds extremly quickly.So after say 3 weeks in my case of continual use they lost their effect.Its a case of looking for a alternative sleeper or asking for the dose to be increased .Its usally about 20 minuites if your not a sleep within that time your fucked .!!!!
 
I know that 20mg of zolpidem is equivalent to .5mg of alprazolam.
Bullshit; I've never EVER blacked out on 0.5mg of alprazolam, but 20mg of zolpidem is a full-strength "what the fuck just happened" trip. As I said in another post in this thread you CAN NOT equivocate zolpidem with benzos; they are two entirely different types of drugs.
 
Agreed. I've mixed 2mg clonazepam + 2 mg alprazolam + god only knows how much vodka too many times to count, without a single blackout. Zolpidem, though, 10 mg and I won't remember the night at ALL.
 
Bullshit; I've never EVER blacked out on 0.5mg of alprazolam, but 20mg of zolpidem is a full-strength "what the fuck just happened" trip. As I said in another post in this thread you CAN NOT equivocate zolpidem with benzos; they are two entirely different types of drugs.

0.5mg alprazolam is equipotent to 20mg zolpidem, this figure is released from the medical community not from someone's subjective experience. I know that for me, 20mg zolpidem would not produce a "what the fuck just happened trip" because these numbers represent therapeutic values, not abuse.
 
Speaking medicinally and on topic a nice strong indica should do the trick - amazing stuff. No tolerance issues either.
 
0.5mg alprazolam is equipotent to 20mg zolpidem, this figure is released from the medical community not from someone's subjective experience. I know that for me, 20mg zolpidem would not produce a "what the fuck just happened trip" because these numbers represent therapeutic values, not abuse.

When did abuse-level doses of zolpidem come into this discussion?

Even when I took the stuff as directed, those were blackout pills, and I'm sure many others have had this experience.
 
0.5mg alprazolam is equipotent to 20mg zolpidem, this figure is released from the medical community not from someone's subjective experience. I know that for me, 20mg zolpidem would not produce a "what the fuck just happened trip" because these numbers represent therapeutic values, not abuse.

the medical community is full of shit; they also 'scientifically approved' the likes of garbage like this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php...physical_harm_and_mean_dependence).svg&page=1

and YES, it is all ultimately based on subjective experience. Do you know why? Because zolpidem and benzos affect two entirely different types of GABA-A receptor subunits; so WHAT is being equivocated between the two? Level of sedation? Anxiolytic effects? Hypnotic effects? 20mg of zolpidem may be equivalent to 0.5mg of alprazolam strictly when it comes to anxiolytic effects, but zolpidem has 10 times the potency for hypnotic effects than for anxiolytic effects, so an "anxiolytic dose" is going to produce a dissociated dream-like state in the individual.

When did abuse-level doses of zolpidem come into this discussion?

Even when I took the stuff as directed, those were blackout pills, and I'm sure many others have had this experience.

exactly
 
20mg of zolpidem when i had no tolerance to benzo produced a very "what the fuck just happen-oH FUCK LOOK AT THAT CENTIPEDE (that was non existent)" on the wall. i guess all to their own and it was the fist benzo i had tried.

i think the maximum therapeutic dose for zolpidem is 10mg, it is anyway in the UK, not sure about else where as i used to be scripted it a while back until it stopped working and asked for an increase and received temazepam instead. i'd been taking them for about 6 months without any problems until it got gradually harder and harder to sleep... it's a shame, as it was fantastic. what i suggest doing is switching from zolpidem onto doxylamine/promethazine 2 days on 2 days off.

as for why they stop working i believe its due to tolerance and GABA receptors becoming sensitised to the drug's hypnotic properties. my doc said he wouldn't increase the does of zolpidem as its not allowed in the UK for a start, and that 20mg+ starts to produce heavy black outs and lots of problems. he was correct.
 
First I want to thank everyone for their replies, you were all very helpful. I started this thread about non-benzodiazepine hypnotics, but I now realize that they do not work because my severe chronic pain neutralizes the hypnotic effects of all z-drugs. In any case instead of starting a new thread I thought I would just ask people about kratom since I am in severe pain and looking for all the help I can get and get the much needed sleep I need. There are so many websites where one could buy kratom but I don't know if any of these sites are any good ,or downright dangerous , so I would really appreciate people recommending the top kratom selling websites out their so I know I am getting good safe hi-quality kratom and not junk. Also since I have severe pain what kind of kratom would you recommend?

*snip* no sourcing and no source discussion

Kratom doesn't seem to come in capsules so I guess you have to buy empty capsules and then put the kratom in it or make tea with it, how do you guys ingest kratom? How good is it for pain to those of you who have tried it for pain?

Would really appreciate your replies as my pain doctor is a real hard ass stickler and I just can't live a normal life on the tramadol 50 mgs he has me on atm, but then again I have only saw him once so far. My pain is so bad that I have literally been bed-ridden for almost two years know. I have been on nearly every OTC and prescription NSAID ever made and none of them have helped with my pain. So I am hoping you guys can help me get the right kind of kratom for my severe chronic pain, even if kratom isn't all that strong I still need to give it a try because I need relief from my pain and suffering.

Need your help,
RBS

I am sorry to hear what has happened to you. It seems you need to speak to your doctor rather than try to figure out what drugs you can try out on your own to help kill the pain/sleep. To answer your question; kratom might work but it also produces a hangover the day after, at least for me. I can not tell you how good it is for pain since I didn't suffer from any when I took it. Maybe you need to switch to another doctor if the current one doesn't understand you/help you. I know alot of people who are prescribed way stronger opiates for conditions that are not even close to as bad as yours.

Edit: To answer the first question, the nonbenzodiasepine hypnotics (I've tried them all) will stop working after ~2-3 weeks of use for me. Zolpidem worked best and for the longest period of time. Once one of them stop working, switching to another doesn't do much good. Benzos also never worked for me if taken for extended periods of time. The best advice I can give is don't take these medicines every day since they will become useless (and you will become dependant) if you do. I also suffer insomnia and have been prescribed sleeping pills for several years, these days I take sedative antihistamines mostly because I do not want to become dependant on benzos again. I can take the antihistamines for 3 days, benzos/the Z-drugs 2 days and the other remaining 2 days I either smoke weed or try to sleep without pills. So far this seems to work ok for me.
 
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